Pushing along a bit on my new SE in the tight stuff & I'm finding I'm wearing away the hero knobs on the foot pegs quite quickly.
I've stiffened up the Ohlins a fair bit but there's no rear end ride height adjustment on the rear shock, which most Ohlins have.
Has any one adjusted / replaced linkage parts for more rear ride height / quicker steering, she's massively stable in standard form so some adjustment in this shouldn't be overly detrimental.

Oh yea, I'm not a big bloke, 6ft n 90kg.
Ditched the original touring tyres for some proper ones.

Johnno.

* Last updated by: banknyank on 2/15/2016 @ 1:03 PM *

The black magic stuff. Not too well versed in this. However, I take my neck, my pitch, and by the time I've changed my trail, where am I in the slow/quick/shopping cart input speed is to change the front end you jack up the rear end alone. You're on your own as my banner flies it's your decision to ride out of spec.

she's massively stable in standard form

The forks are set at a height out of the top fork crown @ 0.85 inches. You could drop the fork down and gain height there, plus watching how much pinch is left at the bars? The other fork floats as you line the axle up so both are at a static run at both thread ends says, you can hand spin the axle with the tire in the middle kind of static setup.

Guy tells me his bike steers funny on one side, normal on the other side kind of feel of new tires that were put on it. My first guess was check his forks, even though we are looking at the old tires he took off; sitting in the back of his truck. We walk back to the bike and sure enough, one fork is sitting way too high. After the static setup, he comes back in and bike feels normal at both flicks. I took an instinctive guess and it worked out.

The oil window is my only concern I better lean off the bike more, use lots of body english so I better change knee pucks than clutch covers, oil and gaskets.

Signed,
NOLTT

* Last updated by: Hub on 2/15/2016 @ 1:40 PM *

Thanx Hub, to my eyes dropping the forks thru would lessen my ground clearance.
I'm Enquireing with my Ohlins guru in the next few days re adapting the Rear shock to get some height adjustment back there. I'll be reluctant to shell out more hard earned on a whole other fully adjustable shock.
& yea hanging off more would help, now if I was only 30 years younger -----.

* Last updated by: banknyank on 2/15/2016 @ 2:55 PM *

How about if this helps. I loosen all the steering stem and top crown bolts, run a jack under the bike and raise the bike up higher, will the forks drop out of the steering and crown? Same as saying, "I'd have enough clamping on the handlebars the tubes drop down.'

Yoshi and who knows who else have machined fork cap extenders so the forks run down deeper to elevate the bike up. Are We on the same visual yet?

I'd definitely have a talk with the Ohlins guy.

Not sure raising the bike is going in the right direction.

We are right at the same weight 200lbs / 220 lbs suited.

I can ride this bike (non Ohlins) pretty dang hard
and not have that kind of issue.

Did you set up the suspension?

I'd check the spring rates front and rear. Maybe you're
top rider and just laying that bike down or else the suspension
is just collapsing under the bike. To soft of suspension will
just collapse the bike down low with g-force and if that's
the case it's not only scraping the heck out of the bike but looks
like it's getting pretty dangerous too.

The problem with raising the front by dropping the tubes is you increase the rake and slow the steering, making the bank angle even more severe to get around a given turn at a given speed. Try raising the fork tubes slightly (3/8-1/2") to quicken the steering and gain a little ride height by fitting a 190/55 tire in place of the 190/50 it came with. Stiffening up the suspension to maintain ride height and geometry will help as stated.

Thanks guys, I do push my bikes along a bit in the tight stuff. Maybe I'm just plain asking too much of the girl.
Miss read you Hub, just that I've never raised forks on a bike b4 always dropped them thru to quicken the steering up. Easy to give that a go then, she,ll get pretty ponderous ?
I'm running a 190 by 55 at the moment, so 55% of 190 is 104.5 mm.
think I'll try a 200 by 55, 55% of 200 is 110 mm. Raising her 5.5, anything helps.
The 6" rims will take a 200 rear fine I'm sure, same size as my Aprilia Tuono.
Few things to try out then. Combination will help.
Yep I stiffened things up a fair bit from the base settings, pre load & clickers, do feel I'm just short on rear ride height, plus old age creeping up at 55, not into throwing myself across the thing hanging off side to side in 40 odd miles ( talking American here ) 65 klm of one of my favourite set of mountain climbing twisties. Tradesmans back issues. Can't keep an old dog down tho ?
Lastly I'm expecting a set of these to land on my doorstep any day, been on order for around 3 weeks, more upright riding position & more leverage at the bars my thinking, so with that in mind, raising the front end, I'd over come a bit of the increased ponderousnuss ( invented a new word ? )

* Last updated by: banknyank on 2/16/2016 @ 11:32 AM *

Yeah, you're pretty much stuck to shaving parts down. She's low and wide. Back to a sport bike, but I more agree with those who jumped on the small bores and made comment about the power the 14 has vs the handler.

Plus what Danno said. It's all about that shopping cart angle sending in that potential wobble. Out is pulling the bar more and losing the patch. In, she's tight and maybe it chatters. Exaggerated so you more see those subtle moves.

I wouldn't alter the suspension. I switched to 55s for the first time my last set of tires (S20 Evos) and they developed a really nasty (and extremely dangerous) push the last few hundred miles. Part of me wonders if it's not a result of running a 55. I'll find out because my new tires are 55s too.

14R's got plenty of lean angle. YOu're like me though, you like to lean the bike over vs. body position. I have similar scrapes and scratches, although my sight glass has only touched down once. I replaced my touchdown sensors this year, as I don't intend to lean over so far as to lose the bike... cause for us that's the next step and I'm fairly sure it's a small one.

Bank, I think you're ready to Yank a Knee-Out. I agree with Vic. There's a happy place somewhere and finding it might or might not be costly. Lets put it this way...

The Schlachter Front Wash Shakedown; altered the front wheel from 19 to 17 and saved it each time it happened.
Sears Point pinned to the ground tri triple; add burning flesh and some whack made frame with the XY all out of steer.
Riverside Wrist Whacker 750honda; on another home made frame and clueless to the black magic's formula is test after test or I have enough clues not to mess with factory formula.

Yep, up on the front end geometry stuff some what Hub.
I've ordered the 200/55 rear this morning. Trying out a Dunlop GP Racer, medium on the front, the best front tyre I've ever had on & wearing pretty good. Good feedback. Very happy with it. Confidence inspiring. Using Dunlop Sportsmart,s on the rear my go to tyre, present one 190/55 is KNACKERED, & no change in handling towards its dimmise, great grip & wear ok.
So testing the limits a bit, till I got to the point of the sight glass touch down cranked right over, scraping her thru on a longish tight right hander, then there's an unseen depression, & the back end pivots off the road, just a smidge, & it's ok that's THE limit. Now I know where it is.
Gee I'm enjoying riding the 14, she's a pussy cat, forgiving in my book. I'll maybe keep this thread going as I try stuff out.
Hey Hub, getting a handle on your shpeel, no offence, obviously a cluey guy, the things you mention of, as Schlacter, ( full inch front end drop thru, shit ) Sears Point, & Riverside, not sure if there members on here or ??
Any mods will be bit by bit, steady as we go, one thing at a time.
Thanks for the input guys, great resource.
Johnno

Have you set the sag properly? If I was in your situation I would be working with a suspension guy on your issue of dragging hard parts.

Johnno, love the screen name so I can play with it. So where are we territory wise? You should unwind it at a trackday. Safer and higher speeds so you can practice 'smooth.' Did you throw it in and tag the cover? The hanging toenail took a good grind till the peg bent up and now you're done.

I used to grind the pegs down to a sharp short angle till they cried about stabbing someone with them. So last bike I would bring new pegs, because I'd use them as feelers and sit there going around the corners. Come the final I'd have new and those are shaved somewhat. Tagged the clutch case and the rear kicked out so back in the day...

... and don't ask me what year, ask him, Rich catches a ride on a Z1 called the 'Black Horse.' Because GP began to use 17's, the owners of the bike asked me to test the bike so as to shake it down for Schlacter to run at Laguna maybe? I forget what I was racing, I swapped too may bikes out and caught a few rides to keep up with the addiction. Had a few dirty needles you might say. Anyway, this I remember because every time I turned in, the front would wash out or push the front, I'd catch it for 3 ain't gonna work scares for sure, brought it back in and said; 'run the 19 or you'll kill Schlacter' was the quote I remember and walked away from that save.

This brit jag mechanic would come out with a norton and a tri triple. The norton was stock frame and it ran well. I also hopped on his triple with I forget what name frame, I come down 10 at Sears, fastest part of the track. The front end sort of whipped under me, caught it, came around again, said to myself; 'Now where was that cave..... and down I went. Found myself sliding and saying, 'oh, this is not bad' then felt a burn at the shoulder, lifted that off the ground somehow; and then boom! Sky-ground-sky-ground-knocked out-wakes up. I stand up and the world is all yellow pumping thru my eyes and clueless as to where I am. The stuff you do and don't remember being knocked out.

Riverside is history, but was my favorite at the time. The bikes back then were the CB750's bored out or Z1's. I'm on a bored out 750, japanese aftmrkt frame. There was a dogleg you had to enter was more a chicane before bowl of a turn 9. So that quick snap of the bars to transition thru the dogleg just took off from under me, cracked the wrist. Instant down; no time to do anything; it was that quick.

Which means, I've been hurt more times on junk frame geometry and never did I crash my production bikes and I changed brands right and left. Best handling bike was that 79 tri t140 gray market bike. I had a little backdoor factory behind the scenes. It had dual discs like they had on the new 4-vlave twin. That dual setup was never a model on any US dealer's floor. Then they closed the doors.

If you want to see a get away with ride height, fat front tire, no fork adjustments because they taper into the top crown; shocks at full crank pressure at the springs. Clueless days was just ride the wheels off it and if it steered that's half the battle. And the 14 is just there as well. Someone did their homework.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/wazfst1tyme/BOTTOpenProduction_zps52d56e0f.jpg

Show us your rear tyre?

Chequered carrier by the sounds of it Hub, my good man. Thanks for the insight, look forward to a bit more.
Sure you would of helped sort out a few of their dirty needles for them, at pain to yourself.

First big bike I had was a 750 Honda. Late 70,s not much of a thing compared to what were spoiled with now. I remember going to Donnington Park [ UK circuit ] on it one particular day & saw this Aussie bloke, on his first visit to England, stuck out like dogs balls he did, cus he had a set of wide flat bars on his Kwaka, no idea where he finished up, but gee it stuck in my mind, getting a similar set on the 14 any time soon. He went on to be the first Aussie GP 500 champion in 87.
His name ? Wayne Gardiner, he could steer a bit good, that guy.

Its funny though, no matter what you ride, pushing them along, testing them out, getting closer to the ragattey edge, the adrenalin rush is still there, just happens at a more sedate pace the crappier the bike is, still gets a smile on the dial tho. Flex n wobble n shimmy.
Not suggesting the 14,s in that category, just talking in general.

Not all that familiar with the circuits in the USA, [ excuse my ignorance ] brought up in England & luckily had an older sister & her bloke to hoik me around most of the UK tracks to watch racing on a regular basis, before I was old enough to thro a leg over myself. In the blood as it were.

Agree Crude, Theres an Ohlins specialist lives an hour or so from me, been in touch with him, finding the time to get theres an issue through the week. He's looking into the possibility of adapting my rear shock to get the ride height adjustable. The bikes only done like 4,500klm, so nothings worn i,m sure. The sags pretty much wound out of her already, lifting her up a bit in the arse.

Weekend away with the team coming up, weathers looking good, close to 20 of us again, living the dream.

Here ya go Teef.

j

Kind of parroting what others have said here... But have you actually set your suspension up? Some have a gift in that voodoo magic, but for the rest of us it takes a trip to your local suspension wizard for some setup work, even with high end components. Given the damage to your bike, I wonder if the rear ride height is correct.

I hammer my 14R pretty hard both on the street and the track, and I weigh a lot more than you wee lasses. I've got my preload maxed in the rear on stock suspension and a 200/55 Pirelli Supercorsa SP tire. No stability issues. I've ground my lower fairings down and ground my pegs (without feelers, much to Hub's chagrin). If you're on Ohlins I would think you shouldn't be having the same issues.

The other thing I wonder about is your body position. You sound like you're experienced, so consider this curiosity... Are you hanging off? These big girls like a little body English before they'll hustle properly.

At the end of the day, though, these pigs just don't lean like a superbike. If you ask them to, you start to lose aluminum and plastic at an alarming rate.

OOOOOK, well that's out there! I think it's as much your riding as the bike. With that much stress on the edge of the tyre, it's my opinion that you will need to raise the whole machine to improve ground clearance. This will change the intended geometery of the whole bike and you need to have everything going for you.

I'd head off for some professional tuition on the track and see if a pro racer can give you tips on getting through corners faster.

Don't get me wrong at all, you're obviously a bloody good rider.

You've officially arrived at "the edge" dude, the bike has nothing more to give you.

You've officially arrived at "the edge" dude, the bike has nothing more to give you.

i agree. I think you've maxed the lean angle on the 14. You might find a way to gain gain a few more degrees of cornering clearance but would you really want to be scraping hard parts beyond the point at which you've already taken this bike?

Get some stiffer springs before you kill yourself. Ohlins makes all sorts of them just for this reason. Just because your bike is handling well doesn't mean you have the proper springs installed. Most likely it's just balanced, equally soft front and rear.

Thanx again guys,
I'll b backing off a bit now I've found the edge as it were, there's one other guy I ride with on a 14, ex racer, quick bloke in the scheme of things, I'll b picking his brains too.
Yep I need to hang more, but bit limited by my knackeredness / age in the tight stuff.
Look into spring rates etc. wind her up some MORE, out back.

Realised Hub, I would of watched Rich Shlacter back in 79 / 80 in the UK, in what we called the Transatlantic Races, America V UK. Mallory Park, Oulton Park etc etc. Good memories but like 35 odd yrs ago now, holy crap !

My signature, Don't wait till your ship comes in etc, was a Barry Sheene favourite.
Funny guy he was, that Daytona spill was something else, then back on a bike in like 5 or 6 weeks after it, holy crap !

What part of "Straylia"?

Yep, time goes so fast. The Hailwood style was sit up and grind away boots. The King came along, gave Sheene some knee drag. Now Marquez with the elbow. I think I'm witnessing another transition is having the skill to back it in. To me and I might be wrong, but full braking before turning vs. off the brakes and scrubbing speed off in the drift, how can you catch up to that distance? You're on the brakes and the drifter is not. Guys like Marquez has that basket of moves. Anyway...

BOSS has a photo of himself on here somewhere. If you look at that body english, that's how you have to work it. The body is relaxed at that angle. The bike has an air gap so there is more there to lean over with. So to my eye, he's not profiling, but that is more your knee out, body in the correct position to be in.

The 'how do I get myself there' is more of BOSS giving some insight as to how he got there. I'm trying to break it down to 3 somethings? And I think it's just the lower body. Arms? That my example being, I was just so fed up with snowplow and stem christie moves, the last move was to parallel. That day I said here I go and just locked my skis and followed a better skier who could parallel. I stayed close, watched his skis and followed his every move. From there I was jumping moguls. They used one in a year book. In the air, leather jacket, bandanna, raybans, cutoffs; like some biker gang in all the getup wannabe garb.

When I was at my snowplow position sort of speaking about 3 body moves and how to get there, I can only think of what a lot of us used to do was grease up the seat and butt of the leathers. I think armorall would work at the time. So if I were to recap those days, one approach was to slide off the seat so it would make it easier staring out. So that was more the ass-check and how far this came off the side of the seat?

If that didn't scare you and the transitions went well, me thinks next was a leg lock to the side of the bike and tank? Call this the stem or the second of 3 moves? This way, you now have a pocket to slap it into. Because the asslip was just for starting out to gain those final [stand up] smooth transitions. Now that you have the hang of the pun literally, you'll want to slap the the bike into the leg because you'll be standing off the pegs as you throw it in deeper.

Ha, here we go. No mater if my feeler is off the peg or not, I still collapsed that peg, tagged a potential hole at the window. This is more or less the last move is to parallel with the knee kind of done with 3 basic moves. Someone correct me, this is old style as how I thought how to keep from lifting the rear tire out from under me. My toe tag pin is to grind that stem and change out those or weld it back up. That's my 'stay clear of the window' kind of distance I want to be. If I'm in too hot pushing it then I have reserve. That's my point: see my oil leak LOL.

Because you are at this shaved angle, the butt yank going on, the knee has to tag the ground with the peg's stem [simultaneously] and use this as the feeler(s) now. I yank the bar so the shave is gone, the knee is out testing distance in the instinct. And that is what it is all about is to not think about it. By not thinking to do it, she comes into a natural position you are comfortable with. It's a fine line between being that far over, shave the stems off and DNF.

Same tactical avoidance of sending Yannhi in the same direction was no window tagging but no one listens to turtle is that window scrap [has my hand over mouth tee-hee]. You have both foot control to help sit the bike up; you're going to know to lift the knee; and at that speed you have plenty of time carving corners; working peg; the knee together with peg; peg or knee on their own. These are the tools used for that combo tagging at the pegs>> if sitting up as well as knee down.

http://i149.photobucket.com/albums/s58/wazfst1tyme/85%20knee_zpsjnzlj1be.jpg
I've shrunk some but I could dwarf the bike(s) and sink the springs sort of done at my angle. Here I remember I'd take and square up a shop rag, duct tape that over a throw away velcro'd leather knee pad. But to save the few pads I had, this was how it was done back in the day.

And maybe too, BOSS can read that tire. I am clueless to the rake and trail as well as reading a tire. Out of my range of that black magic too.

I think you need to get your helmet outside the sides of the fairing, so the bike can stay more upright while some of your body weight is on the inside of the turn.

Compare the lean angle of the front rider's bike who has his helmet outside the fairing vs the bike behind him which is leaned over much farther because his helmet is inside the fairing:

Appreciate all the thoughts guys & I flex to your superior knowledge.

My favourite types of roads [ Not Tracks ] is the tight stuff & looongest sections of the tightest stuff the better & the old bones just aren't up to physicality of throwing myself from side to side anymore, not for more than a few minutes any who. More open road, longer bends, no problem.
Your all of course spot on with the need to hang more, great description Hub [ you could of written a book, maybe you still should / have ] [ now theres a thought from the past, Keith Code, if I,ve got the name right ? a twist of the wrist, soft hands, look short, look long etc ] & nice photo Extra, a picture paints ---.

I REALLY REALLY would like the ability to raise her arse, quicken the very sedate [ safe ] steering & gain a smidge of extra clearance, my WHOLE initial point of the thread. Please don't take offence guys, just I feel we,ve taken a tangent here & yep its all the same thing to a great degree of course.

Its a science & an art form what we do when were pushing along a tad & theres ALWAYS someone quicker than me,
[ respect ]

The body English, to a great degree is beyond me any more on mountain passes / climbs, of hair pin bends maybe half an hour or so in duration. Flip flops.

Haven't done a track day in 20 years, never got that bug to any degree & never raced, I,m not the competitive type, just enjoy the challenges of the road more. To each to there own.
Always been a believer that dirt riding helps out anyone on a road bike. Being comfortable with a bike moving around / flexing under you & not getting panicked by it.

I,m down the Nether regions of Oz, teef. Were a long way apart I,m afraid bud, would of been good to catch up hey.
If your ever down this way tho ---

* Last updated by: banknyank on 2/18/2016 @ 1:55 PM *