I gotta admit this is something I sorely need to work on and become more skilled at. Seems when I come on a corner, I have a tendency to look at the road directly in front of me and try to pick my line that way.

But when I make a conscience effort to *go where you look* and look on around the corner, you flow around and through it much better, and with less anxiety. LOL

I know the massive 14R is not a twisty bike, but I am not even up to the bike's level of taking corners.

I try not to brake, and just slow before reaching the turn, lean, and even sometimes countersteer to help start the turn as smoothly and stressfree (lol) as possible.

Any tips or stories on good/bad cornering, not in general, but on THIS big bike?

I am sure the bike can be taken around a sharp corner alot better and more flowing that I am able to do, as I've seen it done in videos and photos...............LOL

Not gonna push it too quickly, but I feel I need to progress at a better rate than I am. Sometimes coming into a corner, I feel alll kinds of butterflies in my gut. But I am aware you should strive not to brake hard, if at all.......just lean into it as you pick your line and look on around the corner as you flow through it...............

* Last updated by: ZX14MAN64 on 5/2/2013 @ 12:43 PM *

"but I am not even up to the bike's level of taking corners"...IMO..this is a recipe for a wreck.IMO.No offense...I direct it at myself first off.EVERYONE says..."speed up...and lean harder"...okay...maybe...but maybe not...depending on how you FEEL about what's happening...or the road itself.

It's very easy to come into a corner on this bike too fast...there's no rush.If you're not comfortable cornering in various situations...then relax and find a comfort zone.You don't HAVE to ride this bike like it's glued to the road.It isn't...crashes happen.Ride your ride and feel what you're doing as you're setting up,cornering,and steering through your turn.Not every turn is gonna be picture perfect...sometimes you have to be able to readjust your lines or apex or whatever.It's all learning.This bike is heavy....it is.Getting to know the feel in various cornering situations takes years of doing it.I crashed badly cornering.And I have taken that same corner umpteen times without issue.Each day and ride is gonna be different....pushing when you're not actually ready is dangerous IMO.Ready as in...mindset...staying focused.The weight of this bike can work for you...or against you...depending.You have to find that medium...and practice without stressing over.."I should be getting better"...you will...if ya go easy and learn at your pace.

Lots of momentum with this bike....transitioning can be a handful if you're not paying attention to what's going on with your head and the road and all.Try to get away from looking directly in front of you...it's deceptive and risky.Look through as you said...BUT..find the right distance to focus on as you're cornering.Looking too far ahead can actually mess up your 'following a line" through the turn if you're not aware of it.There is a comfort spot ahead of you...each person has their own.You should feel secure and relaxed driving through your turn...not anxious and afraid.Slow down(preferably before the turn in)...relax...and countersteer...you don't need to look like a Rossi hanging off your bike.Keep your head and eyes horizontal with the road and surroundings.And look up ahead...whatever is comfortable for you to feel you see the road clearly,the way it's curving or whatever.Keep moving your eyes with the curve ahead....you can't do that safely when you're worried and tensed up by going too fast or whatever.Relax....be part of the motorcycle dynamics...lean her in...and countersteer.

If you're feeling 'butterflies'...something's telling you to pay attention as to WHY you feel that way.You sort that out...your cornering will feel much more natural.

You want to feel good and safe and happy riding your beautiful spaceship.....not tensed and bound up with ..."I need to be like THOSE guys"...You're YOU...not them.Your ride experience is YOURS...not watercooler blah blah.Whatever makes you feel confident and in control and fulfilled while riding...that's what you want.Pushing this bike too much...is VERY DANGEROUS...on the street...don't get me wrong...I love to carve and go fast...but....things happen REALLY fast with these bikes as it is...just be aware of that.The power and smoothness is VERY deceptive...they feel alot lighter than they really are.

Just remember...what's causing the bike to turn is NOT leaning in.It's COUNTERSTEERING.The leaning part comes in naturally.But the steering/countersteering is what's actually making the bike 'fall' into the turn.

I'm fortunate to have the roads I do here...hundreds of curves...big sweepers....long fast 's's....Open curves...over hundreds of miles.I know these roads here pretty well...I've also had epic fails on some of these turns and such.How many times have I said to myself...'geez..I didn't really realize how fast I was going'...lots of times.That shit catches up to ya eventually.In riding 14's for several years here now...under lots of different situations and road conditions...I'm paying lots more attention now to what the heck I'm really doing while riding.Especially since my last crunch.I'm finding that sane speeds and all are actually as much fun as ripping on autopilot...more fun actually.This bike is VERY capable.As you know.WAY beyond what I could ever do with it.And I don't need to take it to it's limit....not anymore.Or MY limit either.This thing is amazingly responsive and safe....in the right hands that is;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/2/2013 @ 1:50 PM *

Patience and focus. Smooth is fast and speed will come.

Seriously, the more 'Zen' like in your cornering you are the more you will forget about speed and focus on your flow and the speeds will come on its own. Good body position, head up, eyes ahead, grip with the knees, loose on the hands.

Grn14 pretty much nailed it on the head! The 14's are most comfortable on the long sweepers. It is a lot of work in the tight technical stuff. It can be done, just requires a little more effort considering the size and weight of the bike.

That being said, build your confidence with the bike, there's no rush. It will come. Easy on the throttle and loose on the bars. I find being tense on this bike really transfers to the suspension. IF you find that's what's happening when you're coming into a corner, dial it back a bit to a comfortable speed and work up from there.

Like Grn14, I too wrecked on a familiar corner. When you're constantly pushing, it will eventually bite you. I no longer push limits on the street lol Too many variables.

Good luck! Ride safe!

THanks for the input, guys.

I can't imagine the $$$ I'd be out to repair it from from laying it down around a corner. That Brock's pipe would be shot and I am already aware of how $$$ the fairing work is to replace.

I don't push my skills, no, but I do feel I need to start developing them a bit more, rather than merely crawling around corners. Within limits and not too much at a time, but I do plan to start a gradual process of working on my cornering skills at a safe and reasonable pace.

Thanks again. And I hope you guy's weren't hurt when you went down on those corners.

Hurt?....nah....that was my twin over in ICU for that week and that Month in the HospitalLOL!The bike?....now THAT got hurt;)(May she rest in piece(s)..)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/2/2013 @ 7:31 PM *

Seriously, the more 'Zen' like in your cornering you are the more you will forget about speed and focus on your flow and the speeds will come on its own. Good body position, head up, eyes ahead, grip with the knees, loose on the hands.

^^^^^^ That's it in a nutshell. Less throttle moves means your timing is improving. Smooth means your speed builds. Your body goes into zen. You no longer think but do.

That is a wicked little vid, angle is one I wouldn't want to experience live! :)

I dont know if that's you in the picture, I dont recognize the half-face.

I see you cover the brake using middle finger, good.

I see your position in the saddle, looks good. Arms relaxed, grip relaxed, not very far leaned over, all looks good.

I see your eyes up, very good, you're working through your "butterflies" fear, very good.

Not sure about the foot on the peg placement, tho. Kinda hanging on the side of the peg, from the sole position. When I do this, I drag my foot when leaned over. My dirt bike / horse riding experience is starting to kick in these days, and I'm more likely to be on the balls of my feet, but I dont dont know if that's correct either, it's just what I started doing when I tried to get over further and my toe drags.

The "balls of feet" placement does not help my ability to shift mid-turn, and mebbe I should not be doing that? I'm not all that cautious about it, either. Shift and Gas It, going for the 60 (rear) /40 (front) weighting. I think I'm relying on the TC too much, maybe a bad habit? I'm thinking it through as I'm writing here... Mebbe a bad idea to be shifting, mid turn, because I do not have the quik-shifter, so I'm off-then-on the gas, and using the clutch, upsetting the chassis?

The "balls of feet" placement does not seem to hamper my rear braking ablity, but does not help it either. I do have to lift the foot to get to the pedal, to get on the rear brake. I think I have to do that anyway, if I'm "sole of foot"ing it.

By the way, the advice given above?

CBlast, Grn, Hub, Dave... All excellent advice! I read it twice.

ZX14Man, I suggest you read it again, too. Very very good advice...

I have one peice for ya, myself.

If you're new to the cycle, use the Noob settings: TC-3, Low Power.

Yeah, it's a drag and un-manly. Sure, it horrible riding with those setting. Makes me wanna puke. I cant wait to get off the pig with those setting. Most horrible riding on the planet, pratically too disgusting for words....

OK, really, you'll hardly notice the differences at first. Stay with Noob setting for (I suggest) 6 months. Stick With Them, dont change'em early...

Then one day, change'em to TC-2, Full Power. ...and Nother 6 months.

I followed this advice myself. Yup, that's right fellows, I'm still at TC-2. (It's not quite a year on this saddle for me, yet).

Guess what? I can slide the rear around, now. ... And, my cycle is intact!

My insurance man is happy, my wife is happy, and I'm happy. It sucks to re-build a cycle, and a body.

Noob Setting. It's key to a solid financial and skin-intact future!

Balls of your feet on the peg is good. You wanna have the peg under you big toe and when you turn, you want to rest your heel on the swing arm. Hub is ol' School, he likes to scuff the toes, Mike H style! LOL

Forget about the rear brake.
Changing gear mid turn? More power to you Brotha! Those babies have so much torque, I refuse to do that. I see MOTO GP guys do it but no thanks.
I steer slow, so I usually run a gear higher before the corner, downshift and front brake to alter the geometry and throw it in. I seem to shut the throttle for too long. Hub mentioned throttle smoothness or the lack of thereof... that's me. In most corners, I could leave it on which would able to know what the rear is doing and what the road condition is but I'm not 100% confident with my turn in. Part of my last off was due to shutting that throttle... the road was slippery and I didn't know until I got back on it, next thing I know high side! Personally, I would shut that TC off and save it for raining days (literally LOL) or when I'm pushing the limit on a track.

* Last updated by: dragking on 5/3/2013 @ 12:39 PM *

'Ball footing' is all about peg pushing. The arch of your foot is rocking the shift lever. Your ball is a feeler gauge. Where 64 has his foot is in a good spot times 2. The first is 'road tagging.' This gets you over to the point of how much toe do I bring in to where my ball is at the tip of the peg.

So the smooth sequence is: Side of boot tagging; Tip of boot tagging; Foot peg feeler dragging; feeler shaved down; peg shaving; Peg pivoting = Any farther over is fairing tag; chassis lift of rear wheel's loss to ground.

ZX14MAN64,

First, make sure your suspension is tuned right for your weight and riding style, I have mine just a little on the stiff side, that way, I can get a comfortable ride, but still push it,

Second, make sure you have a good set of tires for the style of riding you are doing, if you are doing a lot of tight twisties, the stock tires are not the best choice IMO, I'm talking about the Metzlers, NOT the Bridgestones

Third, watch a lot of Moto GP, or simular racing, and watch the way they move around when cornering, and dont forget to cross steer ! watch videos on how a motorcycle stays on the road with cross steering and dont be afraid to lean in WITH the bike on the corners, I see a lot of riders lean the opposite position a lot...

I'm certainly no racer or expert, but in 30 plus years of riding, I have never totally lost it in a corner, came close ! but didnt loose it, YET, hope I never do ! Just watch out for old ladies pulling out in front of you LOL !

* Last updated by: carabuser on 5/3/2013 @ 10:48 AM *

" Mebbe a bad idea to be shifting, mid turn, because I do not have the quik-shifter, so I'm off-then-on the gas, and using the clutch, upsetting the chassis?"...

...if you're clutching...maybe...unless yer awfully fast.Try NOT clutching...you don't 'get off the gas"...you BARELY...and I mean ....BARELY ease your pressure on the throttle...for a split second...shift sharply...away ya go!Think of it as a momentary cut in power...although it is teensy...so teensy you can almost 'think' about doing it...that's how small a load lift it is to shift without the clutch.It won't harm a thing.You're doing the same thing with a quickshifter..it's momentarily cutting the ignition(load)on the trans.Once you get used to doing it...the 14R is remarkably able to allow extremely quick clutchless shifts...up or down.Timing...that's mainly what it is...instantaneous manipulation of the throttle and shift lever.You do it right...you won't feel anything but an increase in torque...as you power on up.

You do NOT want to be wide open throttle when shifting leaned in.That's what you'd be doing with a quickshifter if I'm not mistaken....wide open throttle and shifting without clutch or gas manipulation.

Go out and practice straight line roll ons...doing it as I mentioned...you'll find it's much easier to do than it sounds.You do have to have your toe ready however to make the quick lever move...before you get to where you want to shift.You don't want to be fumbling midcorner trying to get your foot right...THAT upsets the chassis.Think ahead before you get to your shift point...prepare....shift...power out...one smooth move.It takes some practice to shift midcorner because your head is telling you..."I'm gonna wash out doing this"...no...you won't...go 'slower' and get the feel of it...then increase your corner speeds.It's okay to let the safety features help you along...that's what they're there for...so use em!;)This bike is VERY capable.It's got the best KTRC and ABS systems any bike could have....top of the line.You can change your KTRC settings IF your worried about slippage midturn....nothing wrong with having a bike that 'reads' the road conditions and lends a hand.You practice this over and over...on straights,in turns...approaching turns...powering out...midturn....you'll see how easy and safe it really is...not having to do the throttle deal and the clutch lever and.....well...you get the idea.

This motor and trans LOVES to run free....simpler is better with this bike IMO.You pull in the clutch...next time...see just how LITTLE you NEED to break the load on that trans shifting with your clutch.That's really all you're doing...thinking to pull the lever,chop the fuel...shift...in the time it takes you to actually perform those movements...the trans is already waiting for the lever input to shift.The load is already 'off' enough to make the shift.All the throttle thing and that is a waste.This bar lever action is VERY small.You check it out next time you shift using it.It shifts perfect just pulling the lever in less than an inch.Your mind is programmed to 'chop the fuel'.Try thinking in terms of..."cutting the load for a split second"....you'll see that your right hand will virtually stay in the same place as she clicks into the next gear and you open her up.The chassis will remain nicely even front to back.TEENSY throttle cut...that's all it is.Not even a cut really,just a 'stop gassing' move.You'll get it.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/3/2013 @ 11:25 AM *

I took a day with the TrackTactics crew (http://www.tracktactics.org) and they were phenomenal. The beginner class had nearly as many instructors as it did riders, so I got to spend most of the day 1 on 1 with professional riders. They led me around, showing me the lines to ride, then followed me and we would talk between sessions about my riding. Plus they had workshops and such all day long talking about all the aspects of riding on track. They were so helpful, and I learned so much from them. Plus they don't cost any more than a standard track day. If you can go to a track day with those guys I definitely recommend it.

Some specific ideas I picked up:
- Riding on the track is very different from riding in the real world. Things like traffic, gravel, oil spots and animals don't exist on the track, so there you can forget that stuff and really focus on riding. This is important to me because you canNOT forget that stuff in the real world.

- There are 2 'phases' I go through in a turn and they determine where I'm looking. Phase one is getting to the apex. Judging where to brake, braking hard, then off brakes and going into the turn. Here is steady throttle, pushing hard to bring it in tight, but not too tight. Once I see that I'm clearing the apex, then I look up and spot my exit point. This is where I'm back on throttle, slowly rolling it on while wrestling that beast to keep it leaned over and on-line until you're back upright and full on throttle.

- Don't ever stop riding. Even if you're in too hot, going way too fast to make the turn, keep your mechanics and ride through the turn. Then, even if you miss the turn and go shooting off the track, you keep riding. Keep your head, come to a stop out in the grass, and then recover. That's another beauty of tracks, is that there's plenty of room for mistakes.

I think CBlast really nailed it - don't try to go fast, try to go smooth and fast really will come.

C

Take track training classes. It will probably cost a little bit more than a track day but you'll learn a lot more and you still get to go fast. You'll do things you never dreamed of trying on the street. You might be surprised at how much skill you actually have.

Drop all the weight you can off your bike.

Thanks for all the input. You guys know your stuff!

I am certianly gonna take it easy and within my limits, but I want to start to safely advance what little cornering ability I currently have.

No credentials and no claims to expertise; only relating what works best for me and feels fantastic when I get it right.

"perfect" curve and "perfect" execution begins with entering the curve faster than I expect to carry it thru and down shifting and braking with both front and rear while beginning the lean; then rolling off the brakes but maintaining some trailing rear brake pressure to "settle" the bike as the sharpest part of the turn and full lean is realized and beginning to roll on the throttle simultaneously; as rear brake disengages entirely and throttle opening increases the bike starts to stand up and the curve widens to meet the outside of the line. This is the point where, if I have it just right, the front end rises up under the acceleration and the tire may lift away from the asphalt!

Damn! What a feeling! I have become one with the bike and "We" are "Rocketman"!

In this scenario there is no steady throttle hold period of time; just momentarily at the exact point of transition from slightest remaining deceleration to initial onset of acceleration a nearly undetectable instant of no applied net force and an unchanging velocity.

Similar to power skating in hockey, you are never off an edge for any length of time; you have control when you are accelerating or decelerating not while "coasting" at a constant speed along the line of motion. You are continually transitioning from one edge to another under conditions of applied force or "drive".

Without getting too technical; keep in mind that any motion in a curve is an accelerated motion and requires forceful input to maintain, even if the radius of the line is unchanging. So constant speed "sweepers" or riding a banked curve will require a sustained constant throttle and angle of banking and /or lean. But I don't think that is what we are talking about here, right? We are talking about actively carving the "perfect curve" at speeds above what the asphalt was engineered/landscaped for!

When it "clicks", like executing the perfect snatch in Olympic Lifting, it feels nearly effortless, smooth as glass, and truly exhilarating. Zen, indeed! Moving Zen.

Happy humans all around.

* Last updated by: PaulAB on 5/3/2013 @ 10:54 PM *

...now...if we could just get a National Motorcycle Riding Only day....no cages out...imagine that!Good stuff that Zen...I'll have a double;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/3/2013 @ 11:46 PM *

Thanks for all the input. Much appreciated.

After reading all the input, more than once, and since its rained all weekend, I built upon the seed you guys have planted with me, and I did a little keyboard research on cornering. I found the Keith Code's Twist II to be pretty informative. This list of common mistakes that riders make, which result in less than desired results.

Survival reactions: instinct to avoid injury but often cause the opposite.

Keith Code
7 survival reactions
Twist of the Wrist II:

1. rolling off the gas
2. Tightening on the bars
3. Narrowed and frantically hunting field of view
4. fixed attention (on something)
5. Steering in the direction of the fixed attention
6. No steering (frozen) or ineffective (not quick enough or too early) steering
7. Braking errors (both over-and under-braking)

I would never have realized that steady, controlled throttle roll as being so vital to executing a corner correctly, but apparently it is pretty much the foundation of good cornering skills, and the other aspects build upon that.

I plan to carefully and SLOWLY try to bring these guidelines into my riding here shortly. I may progess at a snail's pace, but that's fine. I am in no hurry, as I have no races to win.

* Last updated by: ZX14MAN64 on 5/5/2013 @ 7:55 PM *

I took the bike out after work and did a few runs up and back down a good road with a few good sweeping turns in an attempt to start to apply what I've learned from you guys and what I've found. Seems when you make and effort to actually apply these cornering tips, they can start to show improvement in your riding, right away. But still, I am in no hurry to press it.............slow and easy.......

I did notice when I come out of a corner too wide, I have the tendency to lean away from/against the turn (in an il; attempt to bring the turn back in tighter), instead of leaning into the turn more. Hard to break that habit, but at least I am aware of it and that it needs correcting for me to improve.

I now see that applying slow, steady, and controlled throttle increases traction in the corner by shifting weight/force to the back tire. Pretty amazing how applying throttle gives you more control through a corner, whereas I would have previously thought it'd give you less........LOL

I have alot of practice to do, but I think I am aleady headed in the right direction, and with enough careful practice I should see noticable improvement. But slow and steady progess is all I expect, or want, really.

* Last updated by: ZX14MAN64 on 5/7/2013 @ 8:35 PM *

Remember...leaning into the turn is NOT causing the bike to turn.COUNTERSTEERING is.Try it in the middle of a turn...a nice sweeper.Hold the gas...and push with the hand you want to go more in that direction...i,e...push left,go left.Keep your body sitting vertical...i,e...not leaned into the turn(much).Try that...see what you get.Try it more than once.And push 'more'(harder) or 'less'(lighter) in the curve to see what the bike does.Countersteering is virtually unnoticeable at speed...it's very different than steering in a parking lot.Opposite actually.The leaning becomes a 'part' of the ride...but it's not the primary force turning the bike.When you countersteer...you're pushing the front wheel off axis.Meaning...a left hand curve....requires a push on the left bar to get the chassis to 'fall' into the direction you want to go.The front wheel makes that possible by turning to the right(as you push left).But the actual direction of the front wheel is TINY.You don't really see it...but it's angling away from the turn.If you pushed with the right hand in a left curve...you would ultimately cause the bike to stand up(good to know as well)and start leaning to the right......you go BOOM BOOM.Helicopter arrives...you pay 12,000 dollars for a 20 minute flight.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/7/2013 @ 10:36 PM *

But slow and steady progress is all I expect, or want, really.

Good attitude. You want focus and silence. You do not want to look at the speedo ever! This is all about feeling and timing. The progress and the process is slow and steady, yes. That is why I speed up the video speed to watch more line and then you hear how your throttle hand is being applied.

It's all about flow and speed. This is slow speed screw [testing out] a lean fuel setting. I played with some corvette in the canyon. Wore the poor guy out pushing him so I backed off and let him go. He was more in the way of a brisk one thru that canyon.

It's also front brake discipline practice. Bad habit to get into so you are better off using both like you have been... I assume? The front sort of chatters but is controllable. I suggest you hang a camera up front with some decent audio listening to your throttle hand.

Both the lines you take, the blips you make, all need to be combined for your progress to begin that 'smoothing effect.'