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Thread: Won't start or turn over. Need help.

Created on: 01/02/20 08:54 AM

Replies: 25

chrly


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Joined: 07/10/15

Posts: 1359

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/02/20 9:09 AM

Leave the chargen on for at least an hour then try again..? How old is the battery? Type battery ?
Sure sounds like a bad battery to me

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Bobby914


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Location: Chester, VA

Joined: 04/19/13

Posts: 1859

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/02/20 9:36 AM

Battery has a bad cell or two.



Full Muzzy, flies out,K&N, black wind screen, pc3, pm wheels, blue led gauges and lights, scorpip alarm, roaring toyz kickstand and lowering links, tinted turn sigs.

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HanksZX



Location: Augusta NJ

Joined: 09/15/12

Posts: 264

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/02/20 9:37 AM

Check the cables at the battery.
I've been stuck on a road trip twice, first with my ZX14 and years later with my ZX14R.
Both times, a loose battery cable was to blame.
I now check them every year as part of winter maintenance.



2012 ZX-14r
2000 Suzuki Bandit Intercooled Turbo, 287HP, 182 lbs tq...sold
1997 Honda Blackbird Intercooled Turbo, 255HP, 155 lbs tq...sold

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mokaw


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Location: Bismarck, ND

Joined: 02/15/09

Posts: 206

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/02/20 12:45 PM

My 2012 14R did pretty much the same thing 2 years ago. I was at cruise night and was ready to leave. Turned on the key, dash lights came on, but really dim. Motor wouldn't even turn over. I had 2 guys push the bike, put it in 3rd gear, let out the clutch, and it started. I got off the bike real quick to put my helmet on, got out into the street and it killed. "BATTERY" showed up on the dash. My cousin hauled the bike to my house in a trailer. I bought a new battery the next day and it's been running great ever since. The battery that was in the bike was only 2 years old. A battery can show a full charge. Under load it's a different story. If there's a bad cell, it's seen its better days and needs to be replaced.

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Maddevill


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Location: Hayward, CA

Joined: 04/23/11

Posts: 2654

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/02/20 2:41 PM

I'm 99% sure you have a bad battery. I was on a trip. Stopped to take a picture. Got back on, "Click" all lights go out. Cycle the key and everything comes back. Try again...Click. My battery had shorted a cell. A new battery solved the problem.

Mad



Owner of KNGKAW.

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mokaw


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Location: Bismarck, ND

Joined: 02/15/09

Posts: 206

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/02/20 4:16 PM

The battery might show 12.9 volts, but under a load, which it is when it's trying to start the engine, if it has a bad cell or 2 it's not going to turn the motor over. Under a load, I've seen batteries drop down as low as 4 volts. That'll never turn a motor over. It should only drop down into the 11's or high 10's. I've tested hundreds of batteries at an auto parts store I used to work at and this is what I've found. I hope it is something as simple as just replacing the battery.

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mokaw


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Location: Bismarck, ND

Joined: 02/15/09

Posts: 206

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/02/20 5:21 PM

The battery has enough in it to make it click but all the juice is used up from doing this if the battery is no good. I've had bad batteries in cars before. Turn on the key to start the car and it just clicks. Take the battery out, put it on a charger for a while, get the volts up to 12.8, do a load test and the volts drop way down, like 8 or 9 or less. The battery is shot. Hope you get it figured out. Gotta head out now.

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HanksZX



Location: Augusta NJ

Joined: 09/15/12

Posts: 264

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/02/20 5:43 PM

Did you check the connection on the negative terminal?



2012 ZX-14r
2000 Suzuki Bandit Intercooled Turbo, 287HP, 182 lbs tq...sold
1997 Honda Blackbird Intercooled Turbo, 255HP, 155 lbs tq...sold

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david5525


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Location: Kirkland WA PNW

Joined: 05/04/15

Posts: 509

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/02/20 8:56 PM

Load test your battery. It has a bad cell or two. it will show full charge but doesn't have the amps to crank the motor. Stop getting hung up on clicking and light. Load test it.

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20579

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/03/20 7:03 AM

When my 08's battery died, it was after a prolonged period of storage. It also made a constant clicking noise but the meter display fuel gauge and temp gauge flashed left to right in time with the clicking. The starter never turned over at all. I think the clicking and flashing stopped when I hit the starter. The Gen2 is a little different animal so the exact symptoms might be different. I would suspect a shorted out battery. Some last years others don't. That's why the batteries with the best warranty cost the most.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Maddevill


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Location: Hayward, CA

Joined: 04/23/11

Posts: 2654

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/03/20 7:15 AM

You can test a start relay. Remove it and jump the 2 primary posts. Not the ones that go to the battery or starter. When jumped, you should hear an audible click as the relay closes. That doesn't necessarily mean the relay is good , it just means the contacts are closing. You can try to do the same with the relay hooked up. When you jump the primary the starter should turn over. If you jump the secondary posts you are just testing the starter motor.
My battery tested at 12.5 v when it was bad. It was measuring all the cells. As soon as a load was put on it, it dropped to 10 v. And remember, my battery was good one minute, and bad the next. No warning at all.
I put a cheapo battery in it to finish the trip. Lasted about a year and a half. Now have a Shorai.

Mad



Owner of KNGKAW.

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20579

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/03/20 8:57 AM

My battery tested at 12.5 v when it was bad. It was measuring all the cells. As soon as a load was put on it, it dropped to 10 v.

I am pretty sure I have seen the voltmeter on the bike read something just under 13v but that was not enough to start the bike after sitting in the cold all winter. Normally my battery is at 13v or better before I start it and it goes to 14v after riding a while.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13710

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/03/20 7:58 PM

The first pic shows some strange "staining" on the positive terminal. Never seen that before. I brushed it off completely and re-tried and no change.

Here is the basic theory about E... 'Magnetism ~ You cannot separate heat from the chemical reaction.' Anything electrical puts out heat, right? Chemical reaction can be the copper metal burning/melting down. It can be the white acid building on the battery posts.

So what you flicked away was the acid they use in the battery. If you want to neutralize the chemical reaction on the battery posts, go to a car dealer like chevy maybe, ask for dielectric grease. Can vaseline do in a pinch? Yes. It's softer and may melt away from the hotter days.

You never mentioned about the same acid on the negative post. Pull the battery and check. Empirically speaking, I was hacking the bike and had to head to NAPA for good American made toggle switch. Jumped on the bike and it clicked and blacked out. Key back on and all lights were had. Had it trucked home and pulled the battery. I never vaz'd the posts and cables when I installed the battery. Sure enough, the neg post and cable were so chemically built up you could have skied down Mt. Acid.

Got out the old vinegar, baking soda, cut a water bottle; poured-mixed-dipped the ground cable in the solution. Saw the copper wires again. Washed the bottle again and then mixed a small solution. Took Q-tips and dipped the cotton in the solution, and made sure not to drop any vinny down the side of the lead tower, meaning: I don't want any vinny dropping in between the lead and plastic so it makes contact inside or that cell is fucked. Dropped the nuts and bolts in that solution. After all that cleaning, I scraped new metal off the bottom of the cable and the top of the battery posts with a straight razor. Took a wad of vics-vapo-rub, packed the nut's holes, the bolt threads, inside the lead tower, the top of the post and under the cable, and cinched it down. Bike fired right back up. I did not vaz the ground strap to the frame. The chemRe is at the battery posts.

Where I'm assuming you didn't check the battery post ground side...

... Signed,
NOLTT



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13710

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/03/20 8:08 PM

Gray sensor is the subthrottle position sensor.
Black sensor is the throttle position sensor.

What you are hearing when the key is turned on or turned off is the cycling of the actuator, or lawyerage speak for a stepper motor... depends on what/who's shop manual you open. It can open the main throttle some for cold start. It's a constant velocity carb slide, only electronic...same-same smoothrottling.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20579

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/05/20 5:03 PM

I never have had a problem with a liberal application of dielectric grease. It is safe for rubber insulation on wires. All it is is silicone based grease. Although it does not conduct electricity, it should squeeze out of the contact area and allow electricity to flow in a reasonably tight connection. Debatable whether it should be used in all electrical harness connectors because grease attracts dust but I have used it on many of mine and never had a conductivity problem....and those are not even what I would call a tight connection.


* Last updated by: Rook on 1/5/2020 @ 5:06 PM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20579

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/05/20 5:41 PM

HO yeah...as long as the propane tank doesn't run dry!! I'll be warm. I think I would actually miss winter if I lived in a warmer latitude. So far not as cold as remember last winter being.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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Nightmare


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Location: Okotoks, AB

Joined: 04/07/09

Posts: 602

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/07/20 7:31 AM

Hey KAK,

Since the bike isn't cranking there are only a few things in this circuit, the battery, its connecting wires, the starter relay and the starter.

You've charged the battery and it looks good but a load test (Canadian Tire here in Canada does these tests for free if you just bring in the battery) will give you a good idea if the battery is bad or not.

Check the wires, you said you checked the connections at the battery but the starter motor's negative "wire" is the engine itself, make sure you check the ground wire to the frame of the bike (clean and re-tighten it)

The first click you hear is the starter relay, this suggests its good but as others mention, not a guarantee but I would move on.

The constant clicking sounds, that's the side where the starter motor is, could be the motor is trying to turn but the gears are jammed (doubtful), or its getting insufficient power to turn properly (more likely), or it may be the actuators in the throttle bodies moving back and forth rapidly (never heard of that before but...)

If it was me personally, I'd jump start the bike using another battery (yes a CAR battery), don't jump start it with another running vehicle but with the other vehicle off hook up the jumper cables and give it a try, if it works then you know its the battery or cables.

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mokaw


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Location: Bismarck, ND

Joined: 02/15/09

Posts: 206

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/10/20 4:16 PM

I'm glad you got it going. A battery can quit working at any time. Mine did. Started right up, rode to cruise night, ready to leave and nothing. New battery next day and started right up. Remember, the battery is the heart of the motorcycle. Without it nothing works. As for the Chinese part, it might be ok. I got a Chinese steering stabilizer from Amazon. It only cost $65, it's a duplicate of the Hyperpro, and it works great. Price out a Hyperpro for a 14 and see how much it is, $396 from motomummy. Anyway, I'm glad you got the bike going with something so simple.


* Last updated by: mokaw on 1/10/2020 @ 4:27 PM *

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KAK



Location:

rockandahardplace

Joined: 02/16/09

Posts: 761

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/10/20 5:36 PM

Thanks, mokaw. You and others kept trying to tell me it was the battery, but I kept thinking it was something worse.
Live and learn. Thanks again.

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Nightmare


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Location: Okotoks, AB

Joined: 04/07/09

Posts: 602

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/13/20 9:09 AM

I personally think $113 is a ridiculous price for a starter relay, the price difference is likely either the made in China vs made in Japan (assuming the OEM is made in Japan) or the fact that its just a cheap "knock off" part. Likely it would have worked just as well as the original, hell at $7 even if you have to replace it 10 times you're still ahead money wise but out a lot of time and frustration.

I've seen a lot of similar things, side view mirrors for a Jeep from the stealership, $275/each from Partsource $150/pair. A 128MB compact flash card from Cisco $700 or a 512MB (smallest I could find) $15 from another store, the Cisco part literally had a Cisco sticker over the SANDISK sticker.

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Maddevill


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Location: Hayward, CA

Joined: 04/23/11

Posts: 2654

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/13/20 11:26 AM

Yeah, I bought a Chinese carb for my quad and another for a friends Honda Elite scooter. $35 vs $158 ( and no longer available). Work great.
OP- make sure your charging system is good or we'll be talking about batteries again in the future.

Mad



Owner of KNGKAW.

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KAK



Location:

rockandahardplace

Joined: 02/16/09

Posts: 761

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/13/20 3:45 PM

I could go on and on about prices for motorcycle parts. "Genuine" parts are simply over-priced. Many to the point of ripping off the customer. Some of the parts, like a starter motor, are 2 or 3 times the price of a typical car starter. Damn, even nuts and bolts cost much more compared to a similar nut or bolt for a car or for general purpose.
Last year when I was pricing a 2019 Kawasaki 900Rs, Kawasaki wanted $400 for the optional center stand. My latest set of Michelin Road Pilot 5's cost $450. If I'm lucky, I'll get about 20% of the mileage I'd get for the same quality car tire and 2 of the car tires cost $100 less? Just obvious price gouging.
I think it's all part of why motorcycling is in decline. There used to be 5 Suzuki dealers within 20 miles of me. Now there's 1. I used to see several other riders every morning when I commuted. By the time I retired, I could go several days without seeing another rider. Instead of motorcycling just being another way of getting around, it's now being looked at as a "sport" and I guess that means you should expect to pay more for everything. I know some people are just tired of it and it's part of why they just stop riding sooner than they would have.

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20579

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/13/20 4:37 PM

Yup, I always thought it had to do with supply and demand. It takes higher prices to offset the relatively small numbers of people who ride motorcycles compared to driving cars. Everyone has a car so car parts can be manufactured in higher volumes.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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BIGO70


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Joined: 09/19/19

Posts: 188

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/13/20 10:55 PM

I was going to chime in and say "new battery" also. Glad that is all it turned out to be.

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BIGO70


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Joined: 09/19/19

Posts: 188

RE: Won't start or turn over. Need help.
01/13/20 11:04 PM

I agree that motorcycling seems to be diminishing here in the United States. Not so much in other countries.

As for parts pricing, I also agree that we are getting gouged by the manufacturer. However, they know many of us have very few options and don't know how to work on our own bikes so we are at their mercy.

In regard to working on our own bikes, that to is becoming more difficult with the advent of electronic packages. Unless you have a lap top, a scanner and know the codes you are pretty much stuck taking your bike to a dealer if it is something electrical.

Personally, I wish they would have stopped with the electronics with the invention of fuel injection.

I don't need traction control package, anti wheelie package, ABS, electronic suspension package, etc....

If you need all of that then maybe you shouldn't be riding a motorcycle??????????

Sorry, rant over. LOL

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