Thanks for all the suggestions.

A local shop that is expert in all things m/c said he would not get involved. I can respect that. The opinion of others that have expertise in valves/heads etc. said that bucket retainer contact could cause the valves to drop.

I went to another dealer, explained the situation. She (owner) said that K is pretty good about taking care of things.
Take it to the dealer I purchased it from, NOW; do not call, do not email, just drop it off. Let them figure it out with K's tech support. Doing it myself may not allow K to offer goodwill. I was also slightly admonished for not letting the dealer do this..... all for trying to save $1000 or so. Hindsight, if I had only known.

Uhaul has m/c trailers for $15 or $25. I am going to check with a neighbor, another motorcyclist with lots of experience to see if he will help transport via his van.

Yesterday I began buttoning up some parts. I left the intake cam loose and placed the valve cover on top. Leaving all the body work on the bench. Boxed up the throttle bodies and electrical parts etc.

I took a look at the SM for engine removal'; it looks a bit overwhelming.... many steps, and maybe not a one person job.

BTW, I took a look at BMW K1300S valve adjustment procedure; they do not have shims but rather buckets with various 'nib' sizes. Interesting.

BTW, I took a look at BMW K1300S valve adjustment procedure; they do not have shims but rather buckets with various 'nib' sizes. Interesting.

yes, my understanding is that buckets should never be replaced unless absolutely necessary because they wear to the engine.

I hope you get a good shop. A thousand dollars is a lot of money but that's the cost of owning a vehicle. If you don't do it yourself, you pay. Hope you get a shop that does good work. There's no excuse to not be on the right track now.

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That's bullshit about the $1000. You didn't have anything to do with it, as far as causing the issue due to mechanical negligience. I mean at least they could say, we've seen this problem caused by over revving or something, not just some lame cop out.

Fuck dealers and their scummy practices. Kawasaki can pay them for their general level of incompetency, stripped and broken fasteners and bodywork and half-assed work. Shit, you should've buttoned it up and took it in for a valve adjustment I would be surpised at all if the ape with the wrench would even notice the issue... Probably would've got the bike back "we adjusted one shim' like 99% of the time.

I'd be more suspect if some mechanic ever worked on or rode the bike.

1. Straight edge blade, chop stick, a slice down one side of it.
2. Maybe a toothpick is too short, but the idea is to take a measurement.
3. Drop the slice down between the head and spring, so it hits bottom.
4. With the straight edge, nick or cut across the slice so when you drop it in the 'questionable one,' does the cut across the slice line up all even with the partner valve?
5. If both spring heights are the same?????
6. Get it?

Homehe needs no special tools we get to the bottom of this. The book says to take it to a dealer [but if you can do it no harm no foul] because you are following the interval; not neglecting the bike. Neglect is you eat it, but you are not. This is a seat that walked too early for a head.

Only your toothpick knows for sure.
Signed,
NOLTT

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Well, I got in to work today and there was a phone message from the dealer. Bottom line is bring the bike in. My neighbor offered to help transport. The bodywork stays home.

Rook: I think it all depends on who does the work. Just like any shop, whether it be engine repair or writing computer code, there is the veteran expert and novice apprentice.

VicThing: Don't hold back my brother. Tell it like it is. Yeah, I wondered what the tech would do if he always got 0.005" lash. Would anyone even notice the wear marks on the buckets?

Hub: a dial indicator would be ideal... but how to attach it? Magnetic won't work on aluminum. Maybe attaching a flat bar across the top of the head where the caps attach? If there is enough room under the air box. No matter, it will be in the dealers gentle hands.

As always, stay tuned.

Sounds like they decided to help you out, that's great. Especially now that you have a good idea of what the root cause(s) may be they cant BS you

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With the generous help from my neighbor we transported the bike to the dealer. They are booked thru the 25th so I am not expecting much until then. No estimates at this time. The service manager did mention that K is very good about supporting their customers. Good to hear.

It's a good thing my neighbor helped out cuz I would not have been able to tie it down on my own. It took three of us to get it up the ramp and into his van. And then trying to figure out how to attach the hold down straps; there isn't much to choose from up front but we were able to attach at different points on the clipons without pinching any cables etc.

As always, stay tuned.... news at 11.

Thanks for the update. It'll be intersteing to see how this all turns out. I hope Kaw helps you out. If they do...lol it might make me wonder why the heck I spent money on an additional warranty!

I can imagine this beastie taking 3 people to load into a van. She's a big girl. Still very early in the season even if it's a few weeks I'm sure you'll get plenty of riding in this season.

Where are we at. cuso? Sitting in the shop for a month and it's still there or what?

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Playing the waiting game. I spoke with the service manager last week. The tech verified what I told them about not being able to adjust #7. They did what I did and tried different shims always with the same result; no change in lash. They have been in contact with Kawasaki tech support. The head needs to be pulled to verify the problem which we already knew. I authorized to pull the head... at a price... ready? the labor estimate is $2000 to pull engine and head then reassemble... plus parts. The estimate is based on flat rate. The bodywork was already removed along with throttle bodies and electrical wiring which did not help much price wise according to the service manager. If the tech is fast then they will charge hourly rate. And of course if K decides to help out... the service manager mentioned that Kawasaki is one of the best for customer support. I am not holding my breath. The bottom line as of today is no answer on cause and solution.

Soooo, in the meantime I am trying to resurrect my 1977 R100/7 which has not been started in over 10 years. New battery, new rear tire on order, flushed gas tank of bad gas, need to clean carbs, need to fix oil pan leak, adjusted valves, set timing, lots of polishing and rust removal (Quick glo works nice on chrome). Runs rough so I plan on tearing into the carbs today. The race is on to see who gets done first, me or the dealer.

I either say take the bike back and do the work yourself or take charge and talk with Kaw USA directly and fuck the dealer negotiating on your behalf.

You arne't playing the waiting game. You're playiong the bullshit game. The dealer, and Kaw are on the same team. They are not your friends, they are your enemy in terms of $. THey're job is to manage you together, and to get you to accept every possible $ you will accept as being responsible for. Think of this more in terms of "risk managment" than happy feely bullshit like "customer service". If they can, you will pay %100 walking away with a big stupid fucking smile on your face feeling like you got a fair deal*. I'd be flat out, and I'd be serious, Kwawsaki will either agree to cover some part of this (the part is between you and them) or I would make it clear they will lose a customer 100% guaranteed for life (and I would stick to that).

THis is either a matter of good will or it is not. At this point, they have agreed to cover some % of the repairs or not. IF they have not, then you need to step in and take charge of the financial issues and reach an agreement before any work is done. This shit where you're going to pay $1000s of dollars then hope Kaw pays you back is bullshit.

Removing the motor and head is a process. There's no way someone's going to tell me it would take a competent, knowledgeable mechanic more than a day to pull the motor and head. 8 hrs x $90/hr = $720. I wouldn't be surprised if a competent mechanic could do this is in 4 hours. It's just a process, a series of steps to follow. It's not rocket science.

* Don't misunderstand this ... if you feel like you should pay the check then pay it and go away happy. No problems there. It's only if you believe Kaw is repsonsible in some aspect of the cause, that if you end up walkign away paying 100% happily you're a fucking idiot... get it?

* Last updated by: VicThing on 6/4/2017 @ 9:54 AM *

Thanks for the update, cuso. Let's take another perspective. Say both dealer/manu have no clue what/how/when you took a yee-ha at some point. That's more they cover their ass this way. The head alone is 2k. Goodwill + labor = You scored.

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I authorized to pull the head... at a price... ready? the labor estimate is $2000 to pull engine and head then reassemble... plus parts.

Shit, you might be able to buy a used busa and work on your 14R yourself. It might take a year but at least you would know what was up and there would be no BS.

I'm just not getting Kawasaki not giving an either or or senario. Either it was our fault and we will pay all or it was your fault and you will have to pay all if that is determined. What's this you pay first and maybe we'll cover it later BS?

I'd be about ready to become a lifelong busa buyer right about here.

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I understand (both sides) of what you guys are saying. When I discoverd the head needed to be removed, I hit the wall. I just did not feel like doing all that work. Can I do the work? Sure, with some initial struggle. But, after speaking with two dealers about getting good will from K ... well that is when I decided to let them do the work. Is it worth it? Only if they kick in some help. Yeah, it's BS that they will not commit to anything until the head is off. I understand their point of view; they don't know that I could have caused the damage. I don't know how I could have by simply riding the bike, putting gas in, changing air/oil filters on schedule. Until the head is off it is all a big unknown.

Vic: what is your background? Do you own a shop or have you had bad experiences with dealers? I often read reference to "stealership". Why the hate from people? Because of their high labor rate vs a private mechanic? Does the dealer screw things up more than private mechanic? I am not trying to defend the dealers; just trying to understand. Goodtimes Sacramento has always treated me well. Yeah, prices are high or higher but the (or rather my) expectation is that these are the 'experts'. They (any dealer)are supposed to know what they are doing. Supposed to. I don't mind any business trying to make a profit; it's the greedy price gougers that I don't like. Is this where 'stealership' comes from?

Here is something interesting I just found out: dropped the rear wheel off to have the tire mounted at the shop down the street from me. Told the owner about the $2000 and that the price includes reassembly if work is not done. I thought it was BS but he told me that is the law according to CA BAR (bureau of automotive repair). The dealer HAS to reassemble the bike when returned to customer. Apparently there were complaints/lawsuits when a dealer returned a bike in a box when the owner refused work.

What does "good will" mean to you? Please - don't look up anyting on the internet but when you hear people like us use the term what does it mean to you?

At this very moment, it's way more important what you think of dealerships? Especially one that told you should question doing the work because of warranty bullshit.

I'll say this. Neither of my vehicles has been in a shop in about in several years. It's funny... both run like a top.

I often read reference to "stealership". Why the hate from people?

I've just read too many stories that end badly. A private shop might not be any better but I would think the pressure to finish work on time is a lot less. A dealership is there to sell bikes. I'm not saying a dealership can't be a great place to have work done but a small private shop seems to have more to loose if they do shoddy work. I wouldn't be quick to put all my trust in either. I've been nailed by both a car dealership and a private shop for work on my car. I'd be looking for an old guy making an honest living and charging what he needs to get what needs to get done. That might be hard to find if you're only looking for a mechanic once every few years.

I don't mind any business trying to make a profit; it's the greedy price gougers that I don't like. Is this where 'stealership' comes from?

...either that or they are unable to make a profit unless they do lower quality work. Running a shop with several employees (some part-time) is tough. A Kawasaki sign out in front doesn't make the workers any happier or get them better pay. I would only want someone who was able to earn a living at what they do working on my bike and I know that can't be cheap. I've learned a lot in my last 9 years of serious avocational wrenching. Would I give that experience away for cheap? Hell, no. It has cost me too much and I'm sure any true mech worth his salt feels the same way.

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Would I give that experience away for cheap? Hell, no.

well-- actually, I do try to give it away for free pretty often, don't I? ...but you still have to do the work yourself.

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Hopefully the shop in Sac will treat you right. If they fix whatever is wrong for $2k its a deal I would also be glad to pay for.

The issue of reputable shops that will do great work on your bike and charge you a fair price to do so is finding a shop that still can achieve this in today big box sell-all do-all environment. There is not one shop in LA that I know of that I would take my bike to or could recommend to someone. The local big box store sells 17 different kinds of bikes, ATVs and jet skis. And the knuckleheads in the shop are about 23 making minimum wage and have an IQ about equal to room temperature.

Anything I can do short grinding valve seats I do because I know its done right and I get to take all king of cool stuff apart.

Thanks for posting all of your details on your valve problems, its very interesting and can help all of us out in the future!

Hope Kawi comes thru on this one ...

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I have very little trust in any hired help these days. Seems like everyone hiring anything does get's shit on these days. My brother hired a big company to do some renovations on his home got totally shit on. My partents same thing, a 10 year old roof ended up blowing off their house in a gusty wind storm. My very first experience with a repair shop was with Sears in like 1990 (when Sears had a great rep) and they tried to charge me for unauthorized work. They said they talked to me the night before... but I was at work! Of course then they said no problem they can just remove the parts or whatever it was... LOL yeah right...anyone smell the bullshit? I'm pretty sure the first brake job on my truck I was charged for replacing the rear pads but this was not done (based on me doing the 2nd brake service). Other incidents too especially friends with 16v bikes who all had the obligatory "adjusted 1 valve"... when people who are doing their own are finding several.

Hell I need look no further than my home with cracks in the drywall seams all over the damn place. I hired someone to build my house...

For me it's not just stealerships it's about anything these days. Like Rudy says these "professionls" (whether it's mechanics, home repair, etc.) just seem to be the people that can't get any sort of better job these days.

Here's what I say particuarly to working on motorcycles... I can break tabs and strip screws with the best of them. That's what you generally get these days. If you never work on your bike, you never know what the apes with a wrench end up doing to your bike. Don't be surprised when you get your biek back next time and find missing screws, screws that don't even belong on the bike, broken tabs, hey I don't remember that big fucking scratch!?

Vic: to answer your first Q. Goodwill - when a manufacturer/dealer/retailer offers to repair a defect out of warranty free of charge, 100% coverage. I think it can be broke down to lesser degrees of coverage such as offering parts only or other free future services. But the main idea here is keeping the customer satisfied and to return for future purchases.

Your second post: spot on! Same for rook and cruderudy. Sadly, this is a poor commentary on the quality of work being perfomed today. Everyone sells the same product; the big difference is customer serice or lack thereof.

I recall the wife bringing the Camry in for service unbeknownest to me. I had replaced the cabin filter a few weeks prior (unbeknowsest to her). She asked the dealer to replace it and clean the a/c vents. I saw the repair order and contacted the dealer telling him the tech should have seen that the filter was new. They offered me $100 credit against future work. Goodwill, but the point is that the tech should have questioned the necessity of replacing a new filter.

I had a 2000 Buick which I brought to a dealer for repairs. They had the car for a month with no progress. I took the car back. At a later time I had to remove a door panel (which was my part of my original complaint) to replace the window operator and disocvered the door plastics had been broken and glue repaired. Obviously the tech broke it and tried to make a repair on the sly.... or with a managers approval. So yeah, I can see why you guys don't trust the dealers.

I agree with you guys on wanting to do our own repair work; not just on vehicles. After reading your posts and what I just said above, I see why people can be jaded with paying for poor quality work. I guess I just needed to hear it explained from you guys.

I just reread vics last paragraph about the scratch. When I dropped off the bike the SM took a few pictures of the bike from different angles. Which further reminds me.... the Buick was brought to the selling dealer for repairs and the few times I brought it there it came back with dirt marks on the headliner, on the interior and a scratch on the door. That's why I went to the other dealer and they screwed up too.

Well, good luck on this one, rv. If they get it done right, I can see how $2000 would be a more than acceptable price. Hope Kaw covers it since it certainly seems to be their fault. On the off chance they don't cover it....sometimes these beasts cost big for nothing you would ever expect. I've dropped my bikes a total of 3 times. Fortunately one I had a hold of it and the other I had not repaired before I dropped it the second time. That one was over a thou and I was very careful....can't explain it, it just happened. So sometimes you need to fix stuff that should have never broke and it sucks when you could have spent that on something you didn't already have.

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rviscuso that's half right on the good will thing. It's how most of us think. I learned about it from a co-worker when I told them about my fuel pump going out at 52,000 miles. Unfortunately it had been a couple years. They explained it to me as good will coming into play when a part with such expected lifespan fails prematurely, regardless of warranty status. Like your engine blows up at 37000 miles. It might be better to think of it more as a single vehilcle recall. There's never any guarantee of course that a manufacturer will cover something under good will and I'd even say even between similar cases some claims probably get approved and some denied. Normally it seems like a fairly relentless battle and if you're not willing to stick to your guns, in some case for months even you may be decliend just based on that.

I was running errands yesterday and was close to the dealer so I dropped by to get an udpate. They were able to pull the head without removing the engine. They sent it to a machinist who will investigate. Here's a picture; as you can see the radiator and pipes were removed and on the right (What?!?! now it's on the left, somehow the picture got reversed when posted) is where the head attaches to the frame member. Cylinder cross hatch looks good (I think), but not sure about all the carbon deposits. 16,000 miles.

* Last updated by: rviscuso on 6/10/2017 @ 8:43 AM *

looks about normal, is the carbon equal on the 4 piston tops? On older 911 engines I have seen much much more build up but those are carb's not EFI

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1. Who guessed at 2k labor and who said the engine has to come out?
2. What's the flat rate now with just the head being pulled?
3. Where is the district service rep in all this if the evidence is going to a machine shop?
4. Why is the head being sent out of house? Does not look like goodwill the parts leave the House Of Tea.

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