Hello
I apologize for another flies thread but I need some precise information and is taking too long to search through the threads.
I am considering of removing the flies on my 2006 zx14 with k&n air filter and two brothers racing exhaust system, rest is stock.
I read most of the post and I am pretty comfortable with the process of heating the screws and such.
My question is:
After the flies are out can you just go and ride it without harming the engine or you need to do additional work?
I grew up with zx11 carbureted bikes my whole life so I am totally confused about this remapping stuff.
Is remapping something that you do on your own or you need a shop to do it for you?
Is a power commander a plug and play unit or you have to program it on your own if you install it after the flies are out?
Thank you so much for all the help.

* Last updated by: doomking on 10/4/2017 @ 4:24 PM *

After the flies are out can you just go and ride it without harming the engine or you need to do additional work?

Is remapping something that you do on your own or you need a shop to do it for you?
Is a power commander a plug and play unit or you have to program it on your own if you install it after the flies are out?

Remapping can be done a few different ways. PC5, custom tune, Autotune, flash, Woolich software or some/all of the above.

If you are planning to go the PC5 rout, you will need to get a Power Commander. Also, you will need a PC5 map file (PC3 maps will not work if you get a PC5) for a 2006-2007 ZX-14 with flies out and your exact brand and model of exhaust. If you cannot find your exact exhaust, any full system should be closer than using a map for stock exhaust or slipons with flies out. Make sure you trust whoever you get that map from.

The PC5 is not hard to install but the plugs to the throttle bodies subharness are very difficult to separate. Other than connecting the PC5 inline to these plugs, all you need to do is connect the PC5 ground terminal to the frame and it is operational. If you do not have a map file in the PC5, it will not change the stock fueling at all. The map file is just a digital file that can be emailed. There are not that many owners out there who have PC5 maps they can share with you because they are not using the PC5s so much anymore. 06-07 bikes are also becoming pretty rare so I think you would need to get a PC5 map from a reputable tuner like Brock.

If I were you, I would order the PC5 from a reputable tuner like Brock and ask for a 06-07 ZX-14/flies out/race filter/2bros full system map. He won't have the 2bros map but he will give you his closest Brocks full system map. He can install his map to your PC5 before shipping it to you if you want and also email you the map or send it on disk---or all of the above if you ask. I would suggest getting familiar with the PC5 software. You could ask Dynojet to help you install the map by phone and interactive computer session if you like. Dynojet has free maps but I would not recommend using a Dynojet map. I am sure they are safe but not the best performance probably. You could try a Dynojet map but make sure you save the Brock's map so you can reload it if you prefer it which you probably will.

If you are running the bike at high altitude that could be a problem because most maps are made at sea level. If you are much more than a couple thousand feet above sea level and especially if you are experiencing poor performance with stock mapping, you might need a tuning shop to make a custom map. If you would rather tune yourself, you can get AutoTune for your PC5. It is complicated and dangerous but I have a tutorial on here that tells how to do it. A good shop can get similar results on the dynometer without breaking speed laws. Perfecting a dyno tune with a real world road tune is best though.

A lot of people get flashes these days. That is where the fueling and other ECU parameters are changed directly to your ECU. No PC5 is required but people who do flashes often still recommend using a PC5. That way, you can easily make changes to the mapping that was flashed to your ECU if needed. A flash is permanent and the only way to change it without using an external tuning device like a Power Commander is to have the ECU flashed again. Flashing is probably going to be the easiest way for you to get good tuning for the simple reason that flashing is probably the most common way to tune these days. Everyone is going with a flash. Not a lot of owners even know how to tune by module anymore. That was something that was a lot more common 10 years ago. You can still tune an 08-11 ZX-14 just as good with Dynojet modules as you can with flashing but the modules will cost you about $1200 by the time you get everything and a flash you can get for $300. ...but if you want to change it, you need to pull the ECU out and send it in for a reflash (probably free if you send it to the shop who flashed it initially) or use dynojet modules.

If you really want to go all the way, you can buy Woolich software and Woolich Autotune and flash tune your own ECU. That's not any cheaper than going with Dynojet products though.

My opinion is that if you own a 06-11 ZX-14, Dynojet modules offer the most flexibility and reliability. You can do everything to the 06-11 with DJ modules and a SpeedoHealer that a flash can do except turn on the cooling fan quicker. Also, you can custom tune.

It really all depends on how much time you want to spend learning about thois stuff, doomking. If you want fast and easy, a flash is the way to go. Put a PC5 on there later if you need it. You can always buy a used 06-07 ECU and have that flashed if you want to return totally to stock someday.

Pulling flies is delicate work. A flash can tune the flies and you can leave then in. If you pull them, take the time to seal the duct with a piece of aluminum foil so you can pick up a screw or metal chunks if you strip or drop a screw. That's almost a 12 year old bike. Those tiny screws might be stuck pretty tight. Soldering pen should do it though. Break them free and if you cant get any out, just thread all back in and leave the flies in. Otherwise you need to drill and unless you have some experience with that, you'd probably be better off to just get a flash.

* Last updated by: Rook on 10/4/2017 @ 5:55 PM *

Carb: Jet remains the same if one travels to a higher altitude = Runs rich.
FI: That was taken care of via a vacuum induced system, where the calculations are that fast, the next shot of fuel is waiting for 3 more strokes of the engine.

So if there is less air the higher you go, the less pull at the vacuum sensor. This now compensates = Runs near normal.
So if there is more pull at the vacuum sensor with the subs removed, didn't that compensate for the subtle change? Sure it did or I would have seized the engine running too lean.
So if the vacuum sensor has no clue if there is a pipe at the other end, didn't the vacuum call the ball? Sure it did or else the bike would run with less of a punch if some fuel left out the exhaust.
So do I need a fuel helper for the subs removed? No.
So do I need a fuel helper for the exhaust change? No.
So are you saying the fuel helper is not needed for either? Yes.
So am I going to lose power? No.
So are you saying I just changed a speed event and notice a pepper pull of power? Yes.
So if I want to burn out my wallet and not the bike, I'm just chasing more HP? Yes.

Thank you for the detailed responses.
So one final question is ....I feel the flat spot that my bike has up till 5-6k rpm when I open the throttle in any gear and than the monster comes out.
Is removing the flies really make the bike come alive in the lower power band ?
Going to all this trouble to remove the flies and flashing the ECU I am afraid that I would not feel any substantial difference negating the effort.
I am a casual rider and been riding for decades, i love to feel the “pull” all the way without flat spots like it is right now between 1k and 5k rpm.
Also I live in Ohio so no high altitude issues.
Thanks again for the help.

P.s. sorry for the stupid question but how do you go about flashing your ECU after the flies are removed?
Just call dynojet and buy one ready to go?

* Last updated by: doomking on 10/4/2017 @ 9:29 PM *

So one final question is ....I feel the flat spot that my bike has up till 5-6k rpm when I open the throttle in any gear and than the monster comes out.
Is removing the flies really make the bike come alive in the lower power band ?

For the 06-07, YES, that's what they used to say. Flies open at 6000 rpm so taking them out will give you full control of the throttle instead of half you, half the computer.

I don't know how effective that vacuum sensor is across the powerband. I believe Hub's advice but I can tell you 100% proof positive, my 08 had the flat spot below 3000 rpm even with flies out. I couldn't get rid of that until I tuned it myself. Tried stock mapping and tried two maps. Romans has it very smooth with his 08 flies out map. I also got my old map's flies fueling very smooth with AutoTune. Tell you the truth, I think some people just give you a map for a full exhaust and tell you it's flies out whether it is or not. That's why I say TRUST the person you get your map from.

Going to all this trouble to remove the flies and flashing the ECU I am afraid that I would not feel any substantial difference negating the effort.

You can just pull the flies. ALSO DING DING DING----try a TRE if you just want to test the sensation without tearing into anything. The TRE is a $60 mod that tricks the flies into opening quicker. If you like it, you might then consider removing the flies and tossing the TRE. GET THE RIGHT TRE. There are two kinds, TRE 006 and TRE 008. Ask Ivan. You probably can buy from him too. Infact he is also a good guy to get a flash from.

how do you go about flashing your ECU after the flies are removed?
Just call dynojet and buy one ready to go?

WEll----if you get a flash that is a total reconfig of your ECU. The stock digital language is wiped away and replaced with Woolich language. Woolich is the guy who invented the software to flash your bike. The ECU is forever woolich after you flash with his software. Only Ivan can reconfig to Kawi language again (I think this is the case, ask him).

So, to answer your question, if you want a flash, you might as well leave the flies in. The flash will open the flies a lot lower and I would hope much smoother.

If you do not want to flash Pull the flies or do the TRE.

If you feel the TRE or fly removal isn't enough, tuning the fueling should help. Get the PC5. Good luck findin an 06-07 flies out map. They're out there but I have no idea where. OR maybe you plan to flash now.

Dynojet does not sell a flash for the ZX-14 (although it looks like they are developing some flashing products for Harley Davidsions). DJ sells modules that can be used to tune Fueling and timing for the ZX-14.

Are you getting this??? Flash is changing the setting programmed INSIDE the ECU.

PC5 map is adjusting the ECU settings without erasing the stock ECU settings---the PC5 intercedes between your throttle and the ECU. The PC5 is like a filter that + or - fueling in the ECU. A flash is directly changing the values that exist in the ECU.

Both achieve pretty much the same goal.

Flash is stock ECU changed forever. You can flash back to OEM values but Kawasaki will know it was flashed if they ever test your ECU. There is a chance your ECU could freeze from a flash and then you need a new ECU.

This is complicated if you don't know anything about it so feel free to ask as many questions as you need to clarify this.

Rook thank you so much for clearifing all of it for me .
You sound very knowledgeable and I will follow your suggestions.
So I think I would opt first off for the TRE mod which looks less invasive and still getting the feel of flies out.
Where would I find a TRE mod? Do you happen to have a web site information to go to?
Sorry to be a pain but it’s all new to me.
I will also follow your advice if I decide to remap to use a PC5 rather than messing with the ECU.
Thanks.

I would start with Ivan. You can call or email him. I've never used a TRE but here's Ivan's page with a little info about the TRE 006 and TRE 008 at the bottom. I'm sure Ivan could give you a lot more info about this and all your related questions.

http://www.ivansperformanceproducts.com/zx14.htm

Sorry to be a pain but it’s all new to me.

Yeah, I know. I was right where you are at a few years ago. It's all very complex and mysterious when you first get started. That';s why a lot of people just go straight to a flash. Not a bad choice but there are many and they often get used in conjunction with one another.

I will also follow your advice if I decide to remap to use a PC5 rather than messing with the ECU.

Woolich also makes a self tuning system but you would need Woolich software to use it.

Ivan does not use Woolich BTW. Ivan has created his own flashing software. I believe Don Guhl also has his own...or some other flasher has a non Woolich software for flashing. I think it was Guhl.

As for what is better, a flash or PC5---flashing does address about twice as many cells as Dynojet is capable of. Think of a map as a matrix of throttle position columns and rpm rows. There are maybe 200 boxes in a Dynojet map. The ECU actually has about 400 cells so you can only tune every other cell with DJ. For all the cells in between, the PC5 will make an on the spot calculation to address any cell in the ECU map that does not have an adjustment in the PC5 map. Apparently it works. I have no issues and I only use a PC5 and self tune with it and AutoTune (Wideband2 is the same as Autotune with a few more capabilities which are nice to have for an extr $60) as well. Flashers often suggest using a PC5 with their flash so it must work. The increased number of cells that have an absolute value instead of an on the spot calculation is the only advantage I see to flashing the Gen1 over using modules alone. The Gen2 has some things where a flash is more advantageous than modules are capable of.

It's worth mentioning that tuning a bike that already runs good is probably not going to WOW you like you sometimes read. That's just my opinion, I can't speak for how anyone else feels about their bike. I guess I've always been a bit pragmatic about mods even though I'm excited to to try every one of them. I love playing around with them even if they change the performance only subtly. Tuning has always been a fascinating thing to me but if you ask me, I couldn't get my bike to run heaps better than it did with stock tuning. I might not have noticed changes in tuning AFR except I knew the tuning had been done and had reason to pay close attention. It might be the inlet air pressure sensor does a good enough job for most situations and the stock mapping is all around best for most conditions. Also you're riding a bike almost none of us can or do ride to full potential. I have never hit top speed in ten years of owning the bike. I really doubt if an extra 10 hp on top of 180 it already makes is going to catch me by surprise! For you though, I am sure smoothing out that low end power will be a welcome change. It is even for me and I am riding the updated Gen1 where the flies open response was way down at 3000 rpm. It was still a PITA. If I feel that at all now, it is at larger throttle positions and heavy load and it is minimal.

I think the TRE is a good first step. Might end up being something you throw aside to really take the flies out or else you will have the flies adjusted by flash. $60 is not all that much when you consider the amount of careful work removing the flies. Then decide how far you want to go. The PC5 with a good map probably won't meet your expectations if you listen to a lot of claims made by other owners. ..at least that has been my experience. It gives peace of mind though and it will open up the full potential of the bike no matter how slight a difference that makes to most of us. ...but if you love the PC5 with good map, then maybe you want to go to a flash or maybe you go to a Wideband2 and Ignition Module. That's where I'm at now and I think it's a good rout for someone who is interested enough to learn the ins and outs of tuning. BTW, the PC5 +Ignition is now available. Both modules in one. You might consider that. I haven't a clue what to do with ignition on a stock bike but I will be learning. Also going with NOS which requires ignition mapping.

LOL well, now that I think about it, I have never tried running my full system with stock mapping. I will have to try it. Maybe I will feel there is a significant difference but from map A to map B to map C to self tune, I don't think there is a huge change. It's there and it's worth it to me but not night and day.

You get your flies situation taken care of and I think you will appreciate that a lot more than anything else you do to the bike.