Has anyone had trouble starting their ZX-14R after leaving it outside in below freezing temperatures? I have a 2015 ZX-14R that will crank, has a good battery, and does everything I would expect it to do when starting, except fire up. It starts fine in above freezing ambient temps.

I’m using the bike as a commuter and running into this issue at the end of my workday - any insight is greatly appreciated.

*** If anyone stumbles across this post later, see post #24 below to see the problem/solution. ***

* Last updated by: McycleRider on 1/29/2018 @ 8:04 AM *

Make damn sure you don't have any water in your fuel. If you have ethanol in your gas it attracts water. The water sits in the bottom of the tank. Perhaps you have a load of frozen water down at your pump. I think there are additives that you can add to gas to keep the water issue at bay.

Mad

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Thanks, Mad! I've been experimenting with fuel additives in case ice is the issue, and still can't rule that out as the problem. I know that the premium here contains up to 10% ethanol and have read that the ethanol is probably fully saturated with water by the time it gets to me, Joe Consumer. I've run about 4 tanks of gas through the bike with Heet additive, which I believe is basically just methanol. Yesterday I put a fresh tank of gas in the bike right before I parked it without using Heet and it wouldn't start for me in the afternoon. There's a place about 15 minutes away from where I live that sells 85 octane ethanol free gas. I'm starting to wonder if I should start buying that and adding an octane booster.

At this point I'm thinking about buying a different battery with higher CCA (Motobatt MBYZ16H 12V 16.5Ah AGM Battery), although the current battery seems fine.

As for the gas, assuming I get the bike home today, I think I will try leaving it outside of my garage with a fresh tank of gas to see it freezes up on me. If so, I'll do the same thing on a later date with Heet additive.

* Last updated by: McycleRider on 1/22/2018 @ 8:59 AM *

Yeah these bikes won't start with anything less than a strong battery. If the battery is tired, or cold, it won't fire the ECU and injectors. I like Motobatt. I've used them in other bikes. Try to get one with the biggest cranking amps you can get. I have a Shorai Li Ion. It calls for a 14 ah. I bought a 21 ah battery. So far no problems.

Mad

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After laying on the starter for at least 10 seconds and eventually getting a really loud backfire, I got it to start and rode it home today. It idled a bit rough at first, but ran better as the bike warmed up; I didn't have any issues with it after it warmed up and rode home as normal. Given the backfire, that has to be some sort of fuel delivery issue, right? Probably ice in the tank/lines?

Lithiums sound awesome in regards to CCA and weight reduction; not so much for price and requiring a special charger. I'm still on the fence about lithiums, but reading that they don't like cold weather has me leaning toward the lead-acid route.

After laying on the starter for at least 10 seconds and eventually getting a really loud backfire,

My 08 would do the same thing. I think it's a combination of the cold and the engine not being started for a long time. It doesn't want to fire off for some reason.

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Battery. The injectors were firing but the battery was too weak for the ECM to trigger the coils. When you released the starter button the voltage went up just enough to fire the coils, igniting the raw fuel in the exhaust. Bang. A cold battery gets a little bit stronger after being placed under a load (the load creates heat)and given a bit of time to recover, and it was enough to start it the next time. The charging system will keep it hot so it starts again....until the battery gets too bad and then it doesn't start. Been there and have the t-shirt.

Fully charge the battery and take it to O'Reilly/Auto Zone and have it load tested, that is the way to know for sure.

Battery.

OP said it cranked right up after 10 seconds. That means the cranking amps had no problem turning the motor over. Not the battery.

The injectors were firing but the battery was too weak for the ECM to trigger the coils.

I don't think so. If one is weak, so is the other.

When you released the starter button the voltage went up just enough to fire the coils...

Nor this one too. Once the cylinder stops so does the spark. This is sequential fire so once there is compression, here comes the spark. There is no voltage drop at the crank sensor per say, no firing of a cylinder when the starter button is released.

igniting the raw fuel in the exhaust. Bang.

Now here we agree. So there was spark all this time, but a liquid began a vapor trail and caught up in the pipe when the exhaust was open. So it lit a little bit and had to travel out of that port as a flame front so as to reignite the raw gas vapor shot out of the port when it was condensed and cold to begin with... not a vapor mist.

A cold battery gets a little bit stronger after being placed under a load (the load creates heat)and given a bit of time to recover, and it was enough to start it the next time.

So chemical reaction being part of the heat, doesn't that say the battery is good and can recover to push the amps? Agreed?

The charging system will keep it hot so it starts again...

The charging system is a linear type exchange rate. The higher the spin, the more E is made. So that slow a cranking event won't make any credible heat per say... especially that slow a crank, that short a time to create any measurable heat.
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After laying on the starter for at least 10 seconds and eventually getting a really loud backfire, I got it to start and rode it home today.

This is FI without a diaphragm type fuel assist so working the throttle does nothing. The trick is no throttle, just tap the starter a few times. Time in between means basic science to understand cold starting. Think: solid/liquid/gas. Frozen gas is ruled out, liquid into gas is what to look at. Cold means condensed molecules in liquid form. It sprays out in droplets not a mist. By waiting for the fuel to vaporize in the chamber, you're doing the same thing holding the button down. It eventually started with the excess moving liquid turned vapor. So the trick is to turn the key off each time you bump the starter motor. Why? The relay just turned the headlight on if you sit and wait with the key on. So that's the sequence... Start/off/wait/on/start/off/etc. You have the kinetic heating up upon compression as a helper to vaporize the liquid.

It idled a bit rough at first, but ran better as the bike warmed up

Notice how it fires droplets not a mist. Notice how rough it runs trying to jump from one flame to the next droplet. Notice how the expansion helps flame travel as it has less distance to jump to the fuel mist. That's the hard starting problem. Firing off drops, not a mist. Make sense?

I didn't have any issues with it after it warmed up and rode home as normal.

Therefore, no battery/charging/fuel problem... just condensed fuel trying to fire in a cold chamber.

Given the backfire, that has to be some sort of fuel delivery issue, right?

No. It was the droplets not being close to the spark so out the chamber it went. It began to vaporize, the kinetic finally warmed up the chamber, the flame began out of the chamber, into the port, and the flame lit the unspent in the pipe {purge} of said cranking.

Probably ice in the tank/lines?

No. Think about it... ice does not light up, be it solid/liquid/or gas. Make sense no water in the tank/system?

but reading that they don't like cold weather has me leaning toward the lead-acid route.

For racing sure. For street, lead-acid for now.

* Last updated by: Hub on 12/8/2017 @ 9:00 PM *

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oh si el jefe!

Must be to early for the Hub Speak to runneth over.

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It was a busy weekend and I haven't had a chance to pull the battery to have it tested - definitely on my to-do list though.

Probably ice in the tank/lines?

No. Think about it... ice does not light up, be it solid/liquid/or gas. Make sense no water in the tank/system?

Hub, as for the ice in the tank/lines comment, here's a little more background. When the bike wouldn't start on Thursday afternoon, I had my wife bring me Heet (red bottle) when she picked me up and I added it to the bike's full tank of gas. I also pulled the battery since I had killed it trying to start the bike. The next morning I put the fully charged battery back in before going to the office and came back several hours later at the warmest part of the day (around 32 degrees F) to try starting the bike. This is when I got the backfire and was able to start the bike.

My line of thought was that, if ice was the issue, maybe the Heet plus warmer temperatures had dealt with some of the ice but not all of it. By holding the starter I may have been getting some fuel through (in a non-ideal way) and/or disrupting whatever icing was still present. In other words, at this point, maybe I was clearing out any icing in the fuel system and hence the odd backfire and somewhat rough idle at first.

Thanks everyone for the feedback. I'm really glad there's a group of like-minded people to run this issue past.

* Last updated by: McycleRider on 12/11/2017 @ 11:07 AM *

You changed three things between the first try and the second try.

It's almost unpossible to determine which variable allowed the engine to fire.

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You changed three things between the first try and the second try.
It's almost unpossible [sic] to determine which variable allowed the engine to fire.

I agree. I mainly wanted to see if anyone else has had trouble starting their ZX-14R when it had been left out in the cold.

The same thing happened to me about a month ago with the same bike, on the same type of cold day, also before I had ever tried using the Heet additive. The bike backfired on me then too after multiple starting attempts, but the battery didn't have enough juice left for any additional starting attempts after that. That time I was able to push start the bike on a steep hill (took three tries).

As for changed variables in my most recent instance, the next day brought 10 degree warmer temperatures, so a warmer battery (battery sat outside in the bike for several hours before I tried starting it the second day) and warmer fuel, as well as a significant amount of time for the Heet to do its thing, whatever that may have been. As for the charge of the battery, I think it was probably in the same fully charged condition both days.

I'll post back when I narrow it down, but imagine at this point that it is either a weak battery, poor fuel quality, or a combination of the two.

What do the load test/health status of the battery reveal?

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Does it EVER do this when the ambient temps are 'normal'?I would recommend a magnetic engine heater.They have em on Amazon.200 watts.'below freezing'...that's pretty hard on a battery when the oil's thick like that.IMO,that's all this is.Not ice,not water.What's your oil blend?

You killed the battery trying to start the bike..? How long were you trying to start it for? Either that's a sign the battery is dead or you are WAAAY too determined to start it.

A couple of things to consider if anyone has this issue in the future, you can burn out your starter motor by continuously trying to start the engine without letting it cool between tries (10-30 seconds isn't enough time).

I have also heard that bump/push starting a fuel injected bike or trying to start it with excessive water can cause the engine to hydrolock resulting in a REALLY bad day. Push starting can cause hydrolocking as the battery is obviously dead and the idea being that an injector could get stuck open and leak too much fuel into the cylinder causing the problem.

I'm personally on the fence about that and would probably push start my bike if I was stuck somewhere.

Does it EVER do this when the ambient temps are 'normal'?I would recommend a magnetic engine heater.They have em on Amazon.200 watts.'below freezing'...that's pretty hard on a battery when the oil's thick like that.IMO,that's all this is.Not ice,not water.What's your oil blend?

No - the bike starts fine in 'normal' ambient temps, as well as at home when I pull it out of my attached garage into below freezing temps. A magnetic engine heater would be great, but I don't have access to a power outlet at work. I only run into this problem when the bike has been sitting outside all day.

I currently have a little over 4000 miles on the bike and am running Kawasaki conventional 10W40 oil. My plan was to switch to synthetic at my next oil change (probably Mobil1 Racing 4T 10W40 Synthetic). Per the owner's manual, I could go with 10W30 in the winter, but I don't think that will help with my below-freezing cold start issue since it's still "10W".

* Last updated by: McycleRider on 1/22/2018 @ 9:03 AM *

You killed the battery trying to start the bike..? How long were you trying to start it for? Either that's a sign the battery is dead or you are WAAAY too determined to start it.

Yes - I was definitely "determined". Imagine being stuck in the cold, just you and your bike. I ended up pushing the heavy girl around, luckily getting her push started along the way. The second time my wife was only about 15 minutes away, so I put some Heet in the tank, pulled the battery, and left the bike.

A couple of things to consider if anyone has this issue in the future, you can burn out your starter motor by continuously trying to start the engine without letting it cool between tries (10-30 seconds isn't enough time).
I have also heard that bump/push starting a fuel injected bike or trying to start it with excessive water can cause the engine to hydrolock resulting in a REALLY bad day. Push starting can cause hydrolocking as the battery is obviously dead and the idea being that an injector could get stuck open and leak too much fuel into the cylinder causing the problem.

Your point is well taken about holding the starter too long and bump starting the bike. I waited a bit between my starting attempts, but possibly not long enough. It didn't feel like a nice thing to do to the bike for sure, though. I was talking to a friend last weekend that also felt like I got lucky I didn't screw anything up by push starting the bike. I'll probably cut that practice out and just call a tow truck next time if that's what it comes down to.

* Last updated by: McycleRider on 1/22/2018 @ 9:13 AM *

Man...hate to hear about your woes. That’s tough having to rely on you bike for winter transportation. I live next to you in Indy, and luckily have a garage and truck for the winter. Always take the batteries inside and cover the bikes up and jacked up off the concrete. I can sympathize.. I have a ‘15 also and haven’t had any troubles cold starting...even below freezing. Hope you get it sorted out and better options before the deep stuff hits!

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Totally makes sense! If the engine is cranking but not starting, that would suggest that the battery is good, cranking is a LOT harder on the battery than firing the injectors or the coils.

Do you have any mods on the bike, specifically a power commander (PCV)? The "recommended" grounding location for the power commander (behind the mount for the coolant reservoir) is terrible and the root cause of a lot of "F1" errors.

This is vaguely similar to the issue I had a few years ago where the bike struggled to properly crank (would completely die after a couple of rotations), as part of the troubleshooting I unhooked the PCV and to my surprise the bike cranked along merrily but of course wouldn't start since it wasn't getting any signals from the ECU.

So, long story short, check your connectors under the tank/above the engine. If you've got time on your hands and you like difficult and frustrating sort of work, disconnect the connectors, clean them (use a proper cleaner and a tooth brush or something along those lines), tug on each individual wire in the connector to check for loose pins and reconnect them. I'm not gonna lie to you, that job sucks, the big connectors are a pain to take apart and even worse to put back together, I had to use a pipe wrench to squeeze the connector enough to seat. But, if you've got a loose connector that MIGHT explain some of the problems, the pins make contact when its warm, when it gets cold outside the metal shrinks breaking the contact.

Honestly that's a long shot, I would think if the connection was that close to breaking that you would get an error code while trying to start and would have intermittent issues while riding as the vibrations would be hell on a loose connector. If you have an extended warranty definitely take advantage of that.

Man...hate to hear about your woes. That’s tough having to rely on you bike for winter transportation. I live next to you in Indy, and luckily have a garage and truck for the winter. Always take the batteries inside and cover the bikes up and jacked up off the concrete. I can sympathize... Hope you get it sorted out and better options before the deep stuff hits!

No worries - like you, I have a garage at home and other transportation options. I like commuting on the bike to add a little adventure to my work day. With the recent exception of this bike, cold weather hasn't kept me from riding; riding on roads covered in snow are a different story. I'm still on the fence about riding when I can see salt on the roads.

I really like downtown Indy (lived there in 2015 and 2016) - it's just big enough to have good work and entertainment options, but without a lot of the problems you run into in a bigger city like Chicago. Feel free to pm me if you're ever in the NKY/Cincy area and want me to show you around the local backroads.

I have a ‘15 also and haven’t had any troubles cold starting...even below freezing.

Glad to hear your '15 has been good - it helps me rule out the possibility of the bike not being intended to sit outside for extended periods in below freezing temps. I ordered a new higher capacity/CCA battery and am going to take a few fuel samples from the local gas stations to find the "best" gas. I'll probably also get religious with using Heet or Seafoam additives when it's cold.

* Last updated by: McycleRider on 1/22/2018 @ 9:04 AM *

A problem i had last winter, is that it will start, but no matter how long of a warm up,, it wouldnt keep running.. AT IDLE,, Suspecting that it was so cold that a sensor wasnt able to keep up. ?????

I started mine when it was very cold one winter and it ran but it never got to three bars. IDK if it even got to two. The bottom block with the Cold in it is a bar and I'm sure that one eventually came on. The bike was new then. I don't know if it would do it now and I don't even want to find out.

Maybe your idle adjuster is low because of cold contraction. If you have a Gen1, it may require an adjustment when it's cool and then idle fast when the motor gets warm and then you will need to adjust it back. Mine has done that when I rode in cold weather.

* Last updated by: Rook on 1/14/2018 @ 4:58 PM *

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Not sure if this has anything to do with it, but reduced valve clearances can make the engine difficult to start. A friend (former 14 owner) put off valve maintenance until he hit 30K miles. He stripped the plastic off and was preparing to load it in his truck and bring it here, but it wouldn't fire. I told him to park it in the sun for a half hour and call me. 30 minutes later the phone rang and i could hear it idling in the background. He asked, "How the f#*k did you know it would start?" I told him it was a wild educated guess that some of the valves might not be seating enough for compression when cold. The sun warmed it up enough that they would and then it started. Turned out he had three exhaust valves with zero cold clearance.

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Do you have any mods on the bike, specifically a power commander (PCV)? The "recommended" grounding location for the power commander (behind the mount for the coolant reservoir) is terrible and the root cause of a lot of "F1" errors.

This is vaguely similar to the issue I had a few years ago where the bike struggled to properly crank (would completely die after a couple of rotations), as part of the troubleshooting I unhooked the PCV and to my surprise the bike cranked along merrily but of course wouldn't start since it wasn't getting any signals from the ECU.

Yes. Not a PCV, but an Annitori QS Pro Quickshifter.

So I think I tracked down the problem and hopefully solved it. My QS is powered by a relay that comes on with the ignition (sense wire connected to the tail signal, relay connected to the battery). When the bike is cranking, the voltage on the tail signal drops down, switching the relay on and off so that the QS was getting a dirty power signal (up and down). Apparently that situation was good enough for normal ambient starting temperatures, but not for when it was really cold outside.

I found that the bike started fine in cold temps when I canceled out the QS with its blanking plug. The bike also started fine if I connected the QS directly to a second battery, without the relay. I made a little capacitor circuit to try holding the relay sense signal high while cranking the starter motor, but found that the relay is also affected by the relay input voltage dropping while cranking the starter motor. In other words, the real issue with the relay is that the battery voltage itself drops while cranking, which is exactly when the QS needs to be receiving power. As a side note, my original battery was fine (used as the second battery when testing the QS), but now I have an "upgraded" high capacity/CCA battery on the bike. I ended up hooking my capacitor circuit into the power line of the QS, so that the QS maintains power, even during temporary voltage cuts while the starter motor is cranking.

Thanks for everyone's input! Hopefully I've resolved the issue - the bike starts and runs fine now with the capacitor. I've had a few pretty cold evenings/commutes to put my solution to the test and so far, so good.

* Last updated by: McycleRider on 1/29/2018 @ 8:00 AM *

Nice troubleshooting, root cause and corrective action

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