From what I can tell so far, any tune that is proper for your elevation is going to be a little better than stock. I don't think it will be night and day unless you are running the bike in the mountains.

The increased rev limit is bound to be the most noticeable aspect of a flash. My bike is not flashed yet but I do have Romans fuel map. Just putting around town, there is no appreciable difference between it and the previous mapping. When I get on the throttle hard, that's when I notice the bike is a bit stronger. It can't be more than a few hp but it's there.

As far as the advantage of flashing over a fuel module alone, I think the ECU has a much more elaborate fuel table than a PC5 or Bazzaz. Can't quite remember but Romans explained it to me. He said you could almost get the same effect with a fuel module but it was not quite the same.

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And there is not one flash tune that increases power 10% throughout the power band, usually somewhere around 3-7% and that's usually with an exhaust change.

This is where Romans tuning shines. He pays special attention to the most useable zone of the powerband.

This is why performance improvements should not be measured on a dyno sheet.

TRUE! As you mentioned Vic, ram air is just one of the variables that contribute to hp on a dyno vs the real world. Go with a tuner who actually samples AFR at all speeds with the bike actually running ON THE ROAD. That's what Romes does and he has said himself, there is no ram air effect below 100 mph or so.

Like I've said before, don't be surprised when you run some test and find out your real world numbers haven't really changed, because they're not going to, especially in some significant manner.

You are probably right. The tales of peoples bikes now pulling there arms out of joint after having a flash, using a new map or getting a tune are probably highly exaggerated. If you get a flash you actually CAN feel, that seems to be the best one for the average owner. The people who are racing and measure improvements by a few tenths of a second or a few mph might need something the average guy will never know is there.

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I've had two tunes that were really good and both came from Ivan the Terrible... oh no, I think I hear Hub coming....lol!

Remember those days when I was having fun with Ivan on the first 14 site way back when? I remember one line I sent in. I was rolling on the ground practically. Then the pond scum came running after Ivan over here and that was uproariously comical to say the least.

The difference between Ivan and all the rest is he's been doing it for a long time. You have a fledgling at the dyno and what little he picked up is about as novice as it gets. I'm sure like anything else, it takes years of experience before you can fine tune the whole package.

After carbs turned obsolete, Ivan had to keep up with the trend so the pc mapping came next, flashing soon after. For C to start messing with maps without a dyno, plus Nels has been doing it for how long? Goes out on his own and has to return the money on some euro4 model and couldn't figure out the loop he was dealing with?

How much smoke was being blown up your dresses while I began to have fun with C man. I don't recall the '3-D' post, but they draw a map in 3-D just so a human can grasp the soft side of it. The hard side is working 1v down to 1000's of volts and that sure is not showing 3-D on a truth table.

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Truth table ..... hummm

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Hub, Ivan's tune has been on my 14 since late 2006, won't touch it. I did do the Jeffo recommended accelerator pump add on feature in 2010 which may have added a touch more throttle response at the expense of fuel mileage closely approximating an F-16 in afterburner. I think I'm getting about 26 mpg the way I ride it but don't really mind.

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Kruz, if you have a look at How to load maps and Overview of PC5 v1.6.4.0 you will see how to turn the accel pump off. Step 30. Just set all three boxes to zero and it's off.

Dj told me acell pump was a feature that was used for ATVs and some other vehicles but may not be useful for those vehicles that already have a similar function in the stock config of the ECU. I'm sure Ivan's mapping is correct so accel pump could only make the bike run rich when you open the throttle rapidly. If you're burning a lot of fuel, you might have the accel pump set to trigger at a pretty small TP.

As far as I can tell, accel pump would be useful for vehicles that were not mapped for larger throttle openings at lower rpm.

* Last updated by: Rook on 1/2/2017 @ 8:53 AM *

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Rook I have the older PCIII and cannot find my cable or setup disc for loading the Dyno Jet software to my new computer.

It's not that big an issue, seems to have excellent throttle response, so I'll leave it alone until I can find my DJ stuff which got packed away when I moved.

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Rook I have the older PCIII and cannot find my cable or setup disc for loading the Dyno Jet software to my new computer.

That's the old fashion way to do it. You just go to the Dj site to download now. You would need the USB from computer to PC3 to use the software you downloaded.

HOW TO DOWNLOAD AND INSTALL DYNOJET SOFTWARES

...but if it runs good that's all that matters. It's probably not that rich if your bike starts and runs good.

* Last updated by: Rook on 1/3/2017 @ 10:51 AM *

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Yes, USB cable is missing but I can look for it, probably just packed away in a box in the closet.

Bike runs awesome except fuel economy sucks but that's not really bothering me, burns about 1.5 gallons on my 35 mile backroad loop so about 23.5 mpg, lot's of full throttle and high speeds so I probably can't expect too much better. ZX-6R burns just over 1 gallon on the same loop and the literbikes about 1.25 gallon, 959 about 1.3 gallon so that's probably right in line.

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Kruz,

I would suggest adjust the cruising RPM/Throttle Position range to a leaner AFR, unless the "accelerator pump" setting is really aggressive (ie, 1% change adds fuel) its unlikely that feature is making a big difference. The 3,000-5,000RPM/5-15% throttle range (or whatever you find you actually cruise at) doesn't need a ton of fuel since the engine load is typically low. An AFR of 14.8 or even higher is sufficient and you would most likely see a big improvement to fuel economy. If you are happy with the throttle response I would leave the accel pump alone since in my experience getting the throttle response nice and smooth is a lot harder then hitting nice AFR numbers.

I'm getting between 40 & 45mpg with the map that I have been adjusting over the years, running an AFR of 12 to 12.5 at 100% throttle at higher RPMs and 14.7 at cruising (simplified AFR numbers, but that's the concept).

14.7 is stoic. I thought that was just for cars since we don't go that lean for high rpm. I will be trying to lean back my cruising range next summer.

LOL Kruz, we'll have you on Autotune, POD-300 and laptop soon! I'd just zero the accel pump. Ivan might have leaned out your cruising range already...maybe? You could tune without Autotune very safely as long as you only made small adjustments. Would be next to no danger at lower rpm. You could get an AFR gauge to see where you're at. I just got one. requires a bung in the exhaust but I will just use the one I already have for Autotune until I can get the other bung welded in...or I may flip flop the same bung between them. No real need to have a sepparate AFR gauge when I am running AT with my LCD anyway.

BTW, gotta start a gauges thread soon. This going to be cool as hell!

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Wow, first time logging in for a while. This is some crazy stuff. Almost got cblasted and decided to to Brocks. Very glad I did. Not a bit of trouble and faster than I can ride it.

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G'day everyone. It's been a long time. Nothing against anyone here. You're a great bunch, and so helpful. I still check in occasionally to see what's new with the bikes, but chose to steer clear of the "cliques". I too fell for the bullshit (magic maths) that I wanted to also understand myself. I paid my money early 2014 for a flash like lots of others, and also went the whole nine yards and got the whole Woolich log box and 02 controller too, just so I could learn and play an active part in my own bikes development. I was hoping that with some "guidance", I too could get my bike close to perfect... for me. I have to say now that the "lines" I kept getting from Cblast made even less sense to me that what I had already started to learn myself. I kept hearing "yes sir, we've made lots of advancements, and will be happy to share them with you". Everything went quiet... very quiet. Very disappointing!
It's great that Nels has joined in, and I'm sorry to hear of your work being plagiarized.
On the other hand, I now understand my ECU much better, and only wish I had the some guidance to help me along and save me from mistakes. My bike is running great and pushing hard, but I'm sure there's more???

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I still run the original cblast flash. I've had it updated a couple times due to changes I made. Stock to slips, slips to full and of course launch control. The flash works flawlessly as it has from day 1. I've had Melinda dynoed a few times, and every time she performed awesome pulling awesome numbers. Even the dump operators were amazed. Ive been running his flash since March 2014.

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Vic,you ever consider being a fiction novelist?Where do you get the facts to base your % on?you make this up don't you?

Bumpfire, have you ever considrerd studying science and learning about proper testing methodologies ("scientific method")? Unfortunately it's not in our instinct to think in this way. Moreso human instinct is to go more by feelings.

In talking with people on various forums throughout the years, a few %, have shown some glimmer of hope of getting away from the touchy-feely bullshit. I had a guy tell me about his new flash (not a C-Blast) and how he power wheelied through an intersection. When I repllied, and demonstrated to him how it was probably more about him riding more aggressively with his brand new flash the light bulb flickered on and off a little. In fact, I said something to the effect of "you probably are forgeting about the time this happened 7 months ago". He actually, in his reply, said something actually very close to that indeed he had forgotten about a time a few months ago where he was caught off guard by a power wheelie. He also said it was probably likely he was opening the throttle more now. Unfortunately, that I seem to recall as the thread/posting continued he reverted into the stupor-feeling aspect of things and that light fizzled out. The way I look at it, if I can help 1 out of 100 people learn to think instead of being a brain dead consumer the world is a better place.

This is unfortunate, because I assure you 14's are engineered and dsigned by maths and science, and at most some art maybe when it comes to body work. Very little in the way of "feeling" made a zx-14. Other than that, it's all "by the numbers". But you as the owner, you are generally more on the feeling side of things. You're going to feel things, and whether those things are real or not, you're going to feel them.

It's not too unlike belief in God. There are those that believe, and there are those that know. There's a world apart as far as what these two things really mean. And hey look at this way, if you don't believe in (or as I would more say "know") God you can at least say you believe in performance upgrades or whatever. Who cares about knowing when you can believe?

Whoaaa man that is some heavy shit right there.

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It's not too unlike belief in God. There are those that believe, and there are those that know.

Should read "There are those that believe, and there are those that think they know.
Just like anything else related to our lives and this world, without credible proof logic and reason all is just hearsay...

Sorry Vic. I just couldn't help it...

* Last updated by: yannih on 5/6/2017 @ 10:55 PM *

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In my book, 'I believe' and 'I know' are the same thing. Why would I believe something if I did not know it to be true?

I believe that 2 + 3 = 5 because I know it.

A lot of people think they believe that tuning makes a very noticeable improvement in a bike that was already running well. With the admittedly limited experience I have had tuning, I couldn't definitely know it without testing it scientifically or perhaps racing if I had some experience with that.

As for God, there is no dyno. If you believe, you have no fear of death, you accept poverty, poor health, depravity, oppression and all other manner of injustice as the will of God. This is pretty easy to do as long as you are not unforeseeably subjected to any of those situations. You will walk into a burning building to rescue a stranger because God will not let you die unless it is your time to go. I'd say most of us who say we believe actually only think we believe most of the time in our ordinary lives.

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at least with a motorcycle, you know you did something when you tuned it. It won't lead to your eternal salvation, however.

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G'day everyone. It's been a long time. Nothing against anyone here. You're a great bunch, and so helpful. I still check in occasionally to see what's new with the bikes, but chose to steer clear of the "cliques". I too fell for the bullshit (magic maths) that I wanted to also understand myself. I paid my money early 2014 for a flash like lots of others, and also went the whole nine yards and got the whole Woolich log box and 02 controller too, just so I could learn and play an active part in my own bikes development. I was hoping that with some "guidance", I too could get my bike close to perfect... for me. I have to say now that the "lines" I kept getting from Cblast made even less sense to me that what I had already started to learn myself. I kept hearing "yes sir, we've made lots of advancements, and will be happy to share them with you". Everything went quiet... very quiet. Very disappointing!
It's great that Nels has joined in, and I'm sorry to hear of your work being plagiarized.
On the other hand, I now understand my ECU much better, and only wish I had the some guidance to help me along and save me from mistakes. My bike is running great and pushing hard, but I'm sure there's more???

sweetfa in your opinion was it worth it going for the full Woolich pack and doing it yourself? Is it as easy to work with as their instruction book makes out? I also like the fact that I can do things myself however if its beyond my skills set then Ive learnt to be a bit weary. I'm not a trained mechanic, but have also learnt a fair bit over the years of biking. Dynojet also made out it was "easy" and it took a lot of trial and error before it became easy.

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The zx 14,14r in bone stock form with correct tire pressure, chain adjusted correctly and lubed, oem cans, fresh gas, and susp somewhat dialed in doesnt need anything else except a rider that wants to ride. the bike builders in japan did all the r and d. I dont have the skillz or desire to compete with mother kawi tea pot. I got cblasted and thru on some exhaust and a few other comfort nic nacs becuase i got more money then sense. I was thirsty bought me some cool aid and it was good. no science for me I just wanna ride. there are many like it but my zx14r ninja is mine and and when its time to operate the machine runs freakin sweet. oh and when the bike has some open road to stretch them legs oh what fun it is to ride.

* Last updated by: streetsweeper on 5/9/2017 @ 12:36 PM *

Well said Streetsweeper...my sentiments exactly!

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Whoaaa man that is some heavy shit right there.

Unfortrunately to my detriment, I'm a heavy guy.

As for God, there is no dyno. If you believe, you have no fear of death, you accept poverty, poor health, depravity, oppression and all other manner of injustice as the will of God. This is pretty easy to do as long as you are not unforeseeably subjected to any of those situations. You will walk into a burning building to rescue a stranger because God will not let you die unless it is your time to go. I'd say most of us who say we believe actually only think we believe most of the time in our ordinary lives.

This is unforunate western misconceptions about what's important to God. It's true, the number one thing is God's will be done. Poor, rich, fat, ugly, handsome, sexy, repuslive, it takes all sizes. As a Christian you are not expected to live impoverished. A sin is a sin, whether you're rich or poor or somewhere in between. One unforgiven sin, rich, poor, somewhere in between will end in you're being judged. The challenge is to maintain a positive relationship with God through out times both good and bad. When things are going good, who needs a god? When things are going bad, of course it's God's fault.

They say nothing happens by chance. I'm about to reveal something here that should provide some actual proof of God at work in someone's life. It won't be what you think or expect, and believe it or not, it involves the very topic of this thread. The time is nigh, gather around the campfire....

* Last updated by: VicThing on 5/9/2017 @ 6:49 PM *

IMHO, with my limited experience, yes you can make a definite difference in the way your bike runs. Maybe the fuel mixtures and timing only make marginal increases in raw power and response at different throttle openings and RPM, but the WAY your bike delivers its power is infinitely adjustable. For example, where you have your secondaries opening, and how quickly, has an immediate affect on how quickly the power comes on. Tuning the bike for pure immediate power or long distance economy and smoothness can be done with different maps at the click of a mouse. Tuning both maps on the bike, and applying them to full and low power gives you the option to switch to either on the fly. Changing your RPM limiter, speed limiter, fan activation temperature and other various settings can be done at a whim. I'm not even getting into the traction control, launch settings, or quick-shifter settings yet. That's the difference with the full package.
Kawasaki has to "comply" with emission restrictions, and tunes the bike accordingly to comply with each different market. That doesn't mean you are getting the best performance from it. Yes, the bike runs great out of the box, but if you want the best of it, you have to do some work. If you don't care about any of these things and don't want more, then leave your bike stock and trust the factory with the compliance restrictions imposed to know whats best for you. Or, get a flash done to your ECU for you and enjoy that too. Different strokes!

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Where is CBLast? Maybe he is in "the house that torque built" :)