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Thread: Help me identify my mystery bike

Created on: 11/11/20 05:35 PM

Replies: 12

nilsnitro



Joined: 11/11/20

Posts: 5

Help me identify my mystery bike
11/11/20 5:35 PM

Hello gents & gentets, I bought a used 07 ZZR 1400 with about 80 000km on the clock. But it's a mystery bike!

Long story short I bought it in Switzerland from a guy that usually flips bikes, and he got it from another guy that had owned it for the entirety of the bikes life. Happy as I am, I jump on the black stallion and have driven through the alps and what not until the lockdown came. Then I decided to take it home to Norway while the lockdown is in place in central Europe, and there I had a garage I could work in.

The bike runs like a beast however I was missing some top-end power as it was struggling to go faster than 260 km/t at the German autobahn. Additionally, it has had some issues where it sounded like it misfires from time to time, and sometimes stuttering in low-medium rpms.

And here begin the mystery bike journey. As I am quite handy with tools and bikes (Ducati ownership does that to you) I decided to do a massive service on it while I had time, but parts that were unknown to me started popping up and modifications to the wiring.

Firstly I found a clogged airfilter. It was in such a state that I got shocked, sadly I didn’t take any pictures. After removing the fairings I found the following.

The discovery of a PC3

Firstly I found a power commander, and after connecting it to my pc I found this mapping.

So I would believe someone has been doing some voodoo on the bike.

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nilsnitro



Joined: 11/11/20

Posts: 5

RE: Help me identify my mystery bike
11/11/20 5:36 PM

Then I stumble on to this thing. I saw the bike's sensor was locked into 6th gear and found it a bit odd. But after googling I believe this is a TRE module, and it supposedly tricks the ECU to be locked into 6th gear. Why?

On the right side of the bike, I found some wires that had been taped up into a neat little ball. However, I cannot find the connectors in the service manual electrical wiring.

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nilsnitro



Joined: 11/11/20

Posts: 5

RE: Help me identify my mystery bike
11/11/20 5:36 PM

This also applies to the other side. The main wiring has a different color on the tape

AND THEN my question! Is there anything I should watch out for when working on this bike? Or are these some "normal" mods to do on ZX14? And is there something I should not touch or be aware of?

Thanks for the help!

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nilsnitro



Joined: 11/11/20

Posts: 5

RE: Help me identify my mystery bike
11/11/20 5:55 PM

And here are some bonus pictures, becouse I am in love with the zzr :D

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 12404

RE: Help me identify my mystery bike
11/12/20 12:06 AM

Welcome.
Let's move down on the photos. First, probably the clogged AC element was the cause of the autobahn issue. At this point I'd change the spark plugs being this is an unfamiliar bike and who knows when and if the plugs were ever changed.

PC3 is one performance item that you want to keep on the bike or not? Most likely a rich running map rather than the stock mapping on the bike. Only way to know if there is a change is to remove the unit out of the loop and run stock. May help with gas mileage touring wise. It won't effect anything with those slip-on mufflers going back to stock mapping.

Map wise, it might be one of Ivan's mapping, but I could not tell. Just taking a guess having another item [tre] that is with the bike. Maps are usually set to run 'rich-torque' so those plugs might tell the story... if replaced with a new air cleaner. Not enough air flow from the air cleaner so it might be rich just by that element alone. Plugs should not be oil wet looking. All should look dry and sooty [maybe] so there's nothing to worry about at this time.

Correct, the black unit is a tre. If you read the first page of the 'code' section in the shop manual, it says in so many words, 'we protect the bike from damage if a code is present'. So basically, the abstract in the manual explains how a code is set. At the time, Ivan was here pushing his products, and I tried to explain to Ivan how a code works, but I knew Ivan did not understand when he mentioned he used high quality parts inside the tre. Anyway, the ignition curve changed and my guess is the advance curve is no longer linear, but an abrupt change to a safer advance. Right now you feel this peppy bottom end. If you eliminate it, the curve is much smoother; you get to see all the gear numbers on the dash when shifting. When you see a locked 6, it is how the computer bike can self detect a problem in one of its systems. So this means the gear position sensor (GPS) has 1 of 3 problems to troubleshoot explained in the shop manual.

What you have next is the throttle body's main wire harness. It is zip-tied throughout the throttle body housing. Follow it down, and you might see the PC3 it plugged in some way for the injector wires. These little guys are called 'junction boxes'. Manual calls them J-box-1, J-box-2, [not these] when looking for problem areas. Basically, these are same wire colors connected together. For example, one J is a ground for all the injector wires. Another J is for all the intake pressure sensors grounds, and the third J has blue wires, and so do the sub-sensor and throttle position sensor(?). A good time now is to just inspect one of the bike's main wire harness J-box. This is located on the right side. This fat harness travels up to the headlights and you might look around the head area, and look forward from there? I'm trying to remember if this was black/yellow wires for main ground? There is another bk/y ground, but this uses an eyelet to the frame, not the plastic connectors like at the throttle body. This too bulges out with tape over it, but all you are doing is to see if it got hot. One owner found this J-box melted and gave the exposed copper a ground, but a poor ground. You'll know by it being taped over and won't be looking melted at the tape over, or is shriveled by heat. No need to cut the tape to look. Feel for the long flat plastic bootie thru the tape.

I don't think the left side main harness has been tampered with? Those harness zip-tie clips are like a one time only, and does not look like it moved from those zips? Only inspect was that other side on the J-box. Where the black tape is, it's hard to say if there is a hidden J under that?

AND THEN my question! Is there anything I should watch out for when working on this bike? Or are these some "normal" mods to do on ZX14? And is there something I should not touch or be aware of?

At the bottom near the shifter/clutch slave housing, see the hose with the clip around it? That's a rain drain for the air chamber. It's also for the engine breather kind of closed loop for the crankcase to air chamber. So if there is brown tan creamy fluid running out, no worry.

Yes, normal mods are the PC and tre. Bike is pretty bulletproof as you can tell. Just keep up with the general maintenance. Since it's a strange bike, it's time to check valve clearance. By changing the air cleaner, plugs, rain drain, you pretty much did a full service, short of oil change, throttle body sync, chain lube, lever pivot greased, lithium spray the foot peg pivot pins, or chain lube, check bolts, nuts, screws on the frame and fairing. The service chart shows what I missed in the maintenance section of the manual. And yes, it's a computer bike so do not mess with any wiring or you'll code it. Left alone, there ain't nothing sweeter than a 14.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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nilsnitro



Joined: 11/11/20

Posts: 5

RE: Help me identify my mystery bike
11/12/20 9:00 AM

Thanks for a very thorough reply!

I have planed to do most of the items you mentioned. Now I am just waiting for parts.

2 out of 16 valve clearances was within spec, the rest was about approximately 0,05 - 0.15mm to tight

The other items coming are new sparkplugs, air filter, gaskets, fuel filter, oil filter, valve shims, etc. (all the usual suspects) All parts OEM, as I have had some bad experience with the aftermarket parts earlier. After that I hope she is ready to go!

Im still considering removing the PC3 and TRE. Right now she uses about 0,7 liters per 10km.


* Last updated by: nilsnitro on 11/12/2020 @ 9:01 AM *

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 19462

RE: Help me identify my mystery bike
11/12/20 7:11 PM

The bike runs like a beast however I was missing some top-end power as it was struggling to go faster than 260 km/t at the German autobahn. Additionally, it has had some issues where it sounded like it misfires from time to time, and sometimes stuttering in low-medium rpms.

260 kph is where my 08 isn't accelerating as hard but it definitely will do 290 and then some.

If by "misfire" you mean backfire, it's normal to get a pop at about 2700 rpm while decelerating.

Stuttering at low rpm. It could be a burble as we call it. Both my 08 ZX-14 and my 08 busa do that. It runs fine. No problem whe the bike is ridden as it's meant to be ridden. I don't know what the stutter is. It does sound like a cylinder is missing or something but it's normal. Open the throttle and go faster!

So I would believe someone has been doing some voodoo on the bike.

It's hard to say if there is anything wrong with the mapping without seeing the AFR data. The mapping does look as though there is a pattern to it as though a human input those numbers. None of my maps had such a recognizable pattern. I could be wrong about the assumption the numbers were input manually. Try a DynoJet map and see if it runs better. DynoJet maps aren't known to be real good but they are safe. If that is an Ivan map as it says in the notes, that should be a great map.

I believe this is a TRE module, and it supposedly tricks the ECU to be locked into 6th gear. Why?

That would lock the ECU into 6th gear mapping for all gear and Neutral. 6th gear has most aggressive flies open response (might be open all the time) and 6th gear also has no timing retard at any rpm. Also, if you are locked in a single gear map, the fueling adjustments are optimized for all gears. Normally you have one map and it has to apply to all gears but the ECU does not have the same fueling for all gears so the fueling adjustments are not perfect for every gear. Lock the ECU in one gear map and and the best fueling is applied no matter what gear you are in.

taped up into a neat little ball. However, I cannot find the connectors in the service manual electrical wiring.

I believe that is normal. Looking at my photos, I have a block of something taped up at the end of a wire on the RH side of my TB assembly. It is right near the connector for the secondary actuator wire coming from the secondary throttle sensor on the RH side. There are two throttle sensors. One grey and one black.

I believe that ball of taped up connectors is probably for diagnostic work. I have the same thing but they are taped in a neat cube. I never had reason to unwrap them.

This also applies to the other side. The main wiring has a different color on the tape

That was not OEM but it's possible the the previous owner just wrapped it up better after the OEM tape started to loosen up or got some openings. HOWEVER, itt sure looks like ther is something NOT OEM wrapped up there. I'm quite certain that main wiring harness should just be a straight bundle of wires taped up in that area. It looks as though there is a wire that was coming out of the main wiring harness and that was taped up into the bundle. It should just be a straight bunch of wires in that area. There are no connectors that are supposed to be coming off of the main wiring harness there. There are a couple of connector leads that go on top of the valve cover and they branch out of the main wiring harness farther to the rear as shown in your photo. There shouldn't be anything like that more to the front on the LH side. So what is that? No harm in unwrapping and having a look.

And is there something I should not touch or be aware of?

There probably are a few but since you are in this area, DO NOT mess with the throttle sensors. You loosen them, they go out of adjustment. I would not touch unless absolutely necessary. They require a special bit to loosen. Leave it alone.

If you eliminate it, the curve is much smoother; you get to see all the gear numbers on the dash when shifting.

You can get a GiPro gear indicator with TRE. Displays all gears and you can select whichever gear map you want or select none if you want and run OEM. ~$300 if you want one. I know somebody has an older model for sale on here. You already got the $60 TRE so it's up to you if want to upgrade to selectable with gear indicator. NIce old school mod. New school is flashing which does all this stuff without modules.

Those harness zip-tie clips are like a one time only, and does not look like it moved from those zips?

Most of the harness retainer zip ties are reusable. You look close, you will find a release you can press with a micro screwdriver. There is a ziptie on the t-bodies for the subharness that is one time. I just replaced with an ordinary zip tie.


Good points Hub.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, Super Sprox 17t output sprocket, AFM 45t rear sprocket, EK zzz 530 chain, Gilles Tooling axle adjusters, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Ignition Module, LCD-200, Speedohealer V4, Glow-Shift gauges, Illumiglow 210 mph clock faces, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Moto-D magnetic oil drain plug, MIT billet oil filler cap, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, LighTech fuel tank cap, Vortex rearsets, lightweight mudflap bracket, FP Racing preload adjusters, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Bridgeport 90° valve stems, CZ 320mm front rotors, Galfer rear wave rotor, Pazzo levers, ProBots Dzus fasteners and many other bolts replaced with aluminum or Ti, Vortex mirror blocks, CRG bar end mirrors, LSL frame sliders, axle sliders, billet bar ends, 2WheelWorkz muffler

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Hub


Hub's Gravatar

Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 12404

RE: Help me identify my mystery bike
11/13/20 12:48 AM

Im still considering removing the PC3 and TRE.

Rook, I was guessing at the one times. I also don't remember if both sides are gray covers for the main harness. That black tape might be tied in with the PC? nil can follow the PC harness and remove the unit if it is tied into the main. Discard the tre as well, nil. Most likely it drops the enhanced grunt with those removed. But lean is mean as they say. Bike will ride a whole lot smoother.

Might as well open the service door(s) and see if the flies are removed. If they are there, keep them in. You can also see how clean the chamber is. I'd start with the right side door so you don't need to disconnect the air temp sensor and fiddle with that; if the chamber needs no cleaning. Look at the other side of the door cover, and that will tell you the condition inside.

... and 6th gear also has no timing retard at any rpm.

I have an old Harley shop manual and there is this vacuum advance off the intake manifold. That vacuum tube is hooked up to the timing advance in the black box. Lose either the vacuum or the wire off that intake manifold sensor, abstract says you lose mid-range advance curve. You still have start degrees (10°) and full advance (55°). So someone happened upon removing the sensor and the bike felt more peppy. What was once linear with the 40° now missing, it jumped from 10 to 55 after so many rpms. So my assumption is, same hard parts in the black boxes, same kind of sensor that is handcuffed to [alpha] 14.7psi for vacuum... I think the 14 has that same kind of 'backup' with 10° to start. Bike would not fire off as fast if at full advance. There is that peppy difference with the tre, if the sphincter muscle has the recall.

I had to run you thru the corn field. Kind of see how it has to have a retard to start, idle, sign off at a certain rpm, right? How close am I to the tre vs. Harley's VOES (variable operating electric switch)aka, father of the IAP on bikes?

Normally you have one map and it has to apply to all gears

In the gps, there is another lookup map for that gear. Why the resistors then? Book's troubletree only has 3 basic variables, yes? 'Signal out of range/short to ground kind of means the same thing. Math lost a variable. Backup has
a number to mimic an electrical pulse that is not responding. It then uses that backup number so the processor being handcuffed to a truth-table, can convert the ign timing.

... but the ECU does not have the same fueling for all gears so the fueling adjustments are not perfect for every gear.

We are kind of back to what is known as a truth table. No matter the fuel trim timing you type in, the table is overridden if the math can't calc off that number, it uses whatever converts at the tables as the final output.

Lock the ECU in one gear map and and the best fueling is applied no matter what gear you are in.

Are you confusing me on a lock to a PC map that is locked fuel wise? TRE is timing wise, not fuel, correct? I think the PC is the lock no matter tre or not, right? PC captures output before it hits the injector. It's waiting for 3 more fire offs to happen and was calc'd at almost the speed of light out of the PC tables, and now it heads out to keep the injector open for so many milliseconds is the PC map calling the ball locked or not, yes?

So nil,
6 kind of maps vs 1. Unlock it with the tre removed.
Locked are those gps maps and the tables await for you to come to the dark side of the OEM.


* Last updated by: Hub on 11/13/2020 @ 12:53 AM *



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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 19462

RE: Help me identify my mystery bike
11/13/20 4:35 PM

The black tape might be a wire going to the PC3. It looks like a patch up job to me. Maybe the previous owner tapped into a wire inside the main harness at one time. That is something that would more be done with a Wideband2 self tuning module. A WB2 is the same thing as Autotune with a few more advanced features.

I would keep the PC3 and put a zero map in it if you want to see the difference between the current map and stock. There's no need to remove the PC3. Remove the fueling adjustments and it;s the same as not having the PC3. Make sure you save the current map if you do load a zero map.

The TRE is easy enough to remove. If you like it less, just put it back on. I haven't played with timing yet but it seems to me the enhanced grunt is gained with a TRE. Retarded timing is never going to improve low end performance. The TRE keeps the engine on full advance at all rpm and throttle positions in all gears. I believe the timing retard is to reduce power for safety reasons. Just like the flies. As for flies, this 07 nil has has flies that are much more restricted than 2008-2011 or the Gen2 ZX-14. Remember on the 06-07, 6000 freegin rpm before the flies open??? That was a farce. I say don't bother putting flies back in if they are out on an 06-07. The TRE is probably keeping the flies open all the time if they are in so try taking the TRE off to see what restricted flies feels like. Removing the flies might make it a tad better. Keep the TRE for unified gear mapping. I don't know if retarded timing helps the 14 start or idle but I'd be more concerned with performance under load.

In the gps, there is another lookup map for that gear. Why the resistors then? Book's troubletree only has 3 basic variables, yes? 'Signal out of range/short to ground kind of means the same thing. Math lost a variable. Backup has
a number to mimic an electrical pulse that is not responding. It then uses that backup number so the processor being handcuffed to a truth-table, can convert the ign timing.

You're saying the Gear Position Sensor will figure out something is locking it to one gear and it will automatically override the lockup? If that is so, the mapping for the flies, timing and fueling would all override to stock mapping per gear. If it reverts to stock mapping even with a TRE, then the ridder would definitely not notice a change in flies open response. I don't know if fueling or timing would be that noticeable but there can be no mistake between flies always open and flies open at 6000 rpm.

Lock the ECU in one gear map and and the best fueling is applied no matter what gear you are in.

Are you confusing me on a lock to a PC map that is locked fuel wise? TRE is timing wise, not fuel, correct? I think the PC is the lock no matter tre or not, right? PC captures output before it hits the injector. It's waiting for 3 more fire offs to happen and was calc'd at almost the speed of light out of the PC tables, and now it heads out to keep the injector open for so many milliseconds is the PC map calling the ball locked or not, yes?

The TRE locks the gear sensor. The gear sensor determines which gear map should be used for timing, fueling and flies and anything else that has mapping according to gear. Lock the GPS in 6th and you get 6th gear fueling, timing and flies response in all gears. One gear map means one stock fuel table in the ECU to be adjusted by the one fuel adjustment table in the PC3, max advance timing and flies are open at all throttle positions and rpm. ..that is unless the GPS overrides the single gear map as you say. A lot of 06-07 owners have reported the huge increase in power by using the TRE alone. It's gotta be that the flies stay open or at least open a lot sooner.

TRE 006 locks in Neutral mapping.

TRE 008 locks in 6th gear mapping.

I have some info stored away about what the exact effect of each is. The 008 eliminates the decel popping.

I plan to go with the GIpro DS or X-type. It'll be interesting to be able to compare restricted and derestricted at a touch.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, Super Sprox 17t output sprocket, AFM 45t rear sprocket, EK zzz 530 chain, Gilles Tooling axle adjusters, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Ignition Module, LCD-200, Speedohealer V4, Glow-Shift gauges, Illumiglow 210 mph clock faces, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Moto-D magnetic oil drain plug, MIT billet oil filler cap, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, LighTech fuel tank cap, Vortex rearsets, lightweight mudflap bracket, FP Racing preload adjusters, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Bridgeport 90° valve stems, CZ 320mm front rotors, Galfer rear wave rotor, Pazzo levers, ProBots Dzus fasteners and many other bolts replaced with aluminum or Ti, Vortex mirror blocks, CRG bar end mirrors, LSL frame sliders, axle sliders, billet bar ends, 2WheelWorkz muffler

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 19462

RE: Help me identify my mystery bike
11/13/20 4:44 PM

Hub, I just read the GIpro automatically switches to Neutral mapping when the transmission goes to N so you are probably correct about timing affecting start and idle. That that retarded star and idle timing has no effect on riding the bike though. If you are riding, you're best with no timing retard....perhaps at high rpm and any gear map you choose should retard for high rpm. High rpm retard is safe mapping for high speed. If your motor blows up, you're not going to go very fast.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, Super Sprox 17t output sprocket, AFM 45t rear sprocket, EK zzz 530 chain, Gilles Tooling axle adjusters, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Ignition Module, LCD-200, Speedohealer V4, Glow-Shift gauges, Illumiglow 210 mph clock faces, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Moto-D magnetic oil drain plug, MIT billet oil filler cap, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, LighTech fuel tank cap, Vortex rearsets, lightweight mudflap bracket, FP Racing preload adjusters, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Bridgeport 90° valve stems, CZ 320mm front rotors, Galfer rear wave rotor, Pazzo levers, ProBots Dzus fasteners and many other bolts replaced with aluminum or Ti, Vortex mirror blocks, CRG bar end mirrors, LSL frame sliders, axle sliders, billet bar ends, 2WheelWorkz muffler

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 12404

RE: Help me identify my mystery bike
11/13/20 7:32 PM

Rook, I think it's more a generic black box move like the very first Delco made ign system for HD. From manual retard at the left grip to start, then swing it the other way and it moves the advance plate to full advance. Then came the spring and weights for the advance. It obsoleted the cable/grip/etc. Then the car's manual vacuum advance plate, to the current zero springs, zero weights, but a magnetic sweep and broken windows to determine rpm speed. Plus, an air pressure sensor, i.e. Load signals like the HD sensor.

The assfactor feels like the same move Harley wise and 14 wise. System in loop has the analog [linear] curve. Digital code has the [abrupt] curve, or the one [digital] snappy bump to full advance.

Example:
Analog = 10-40-55°
Digit - 10-55°

58cycle abstract wise does not factor in the advance call. It has to explain away how the intake air pressure sensor [Load input] and the crank sensor speed [rpm], nor how the throttle position sensor enters into the demand level. "We take safety measures to protect the engine'.

Right? a/N for heavy loads, D/J for light loads vs rpm. Very first page in the code section. It's almost says, 'you gotta know thishit before you open the book to understand it'.



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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 19462

RE: Help me identify my mystery bike
11/14/20 7:58 AM

There are tables for timing like there are for fueling. The TPS and crank sensor work together to matrix what Kawasaki considered the best timing for every load/rpm situation. There is a timing table for each gear and gears 1, 2, 3 and 4 do not have full timing at lower rpm and less than WOT. Gear maps N, 5 and 6 do.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, Super Sprox 17t output sprocket, AFM 45t rear sprocket, EK zzz 530 chain, Gilles Tooling axle adjusters, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Ignition Module, LCD-200, Speedohealer V4, Glow-Shift gauges, Illumiglow 210 mph clock faces, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Moto-D magnetic oil drain plug, MIT billet oil filler cap, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, LighTech fuel tank cap, Vortex rearsets, lightweight mudflap bracket, FP Racing preload adjusters, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Bridgeport 90° valve stems, CZ 320mm front rotors, Galfer rear wave rotor, Pazzo levers, ProBots Dzus fasteners and many other bolts replaced with aluminum or Ti, Vortex mirror blocks, CRG bar end mirrors, LSL frame sliders, axle sliders, billet bar ends, 2WheelWorkz muffler

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ahhlou


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Location:

Moncton, NB, Canada

Joined: 05/21/17

Posts: 81

RE: Help me identify my mystery bike
11/17/20 7:34 AM

I sure learn a lot hanging around here...



Although motorcycles have broken my bones, they have greatly improved my quality of life. A fair trade...

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