I am wanting information about the Gipro ATRE vs the Power Commander ignition module.

I already have a PCV so I think it makes sense to just get the ignition module for it, especially since I already am using a speedo-healer and I think the Gipro uses the same plug as the speedohealer so I may have to choose between the two and I don't want to loose my Speedo accuracy.....even though I can't read the damn thing most of the time with my bad eyes.

I have heard great things about the gipro and have heard nothing about the ignition module.
I don't mind loosing the stock gear indicator as it is off anyway. I think it is off due to the speedohealer being set so high.....after sprocket change the healer is set at -12% which I think is causeing my bike to think it is in a lower gear all through the range. Not sure though.

I don't like the idea of loosing my neutral light though as I sit at lights with my bike in neutral 99% of the time.

so my understanding of the negatives of the gipro are the loosing the stock gear indicator, no nuetral light, and have to decide whether to use the stock speed sensor plug for my healer or the gipro.

what are the positive and negatives of the power commander ignition module?

thanks
Joel

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I don't think you can get the pc ignition to act like a hack. Stock is fine for the street.
The pro thing is going to hack the ign curve you can do on your own. Here is the theory.

Book Diagnostic Tree:
1. Connector not connected = Sets the code.
2. Wire out of connector = Sets the code.
3. Signal out of range/short = Sets the code.

There are 2 wires at the gear position sensor. One is ign curve, the other messes with the subthrottles.
If I apply bdt-2, I created a hack that set the code. The pro thing is a hack. That's why the need for the remote gear LED box. Input wise, bdt-3 is the answer. The signal is out of range. The green N light still works I believe.

I believe I need to see the 6-locked at the gear window display. I lose the gear window. I have a hack like a VOES. That's the evolution of the vacuum advance electronically. Variable Operating Electronic Switch. The curves were 10° for start and low rpm. 40° was mid range. 55° was full advance. Back in 1984 this was introduced and they were hacking this back then. You'd unplug the unit and it would lose the 40 and jump from 10 to 55 degrees and the seat of the pants was, Oh look more power! But it was just a backup system if the unit failed via vacuum, wire lose, or the unit itself. And that's basically what you'll do with the pro hack.

The book basically says, 'we take measures to save the engine from damage.' OR more like, don't fuck with the computer bike or we drop the power from its FULL Potential.

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Input wise, bdt-3 is the answer

Damn it Hub, remember you are talking to a neanderthal......evolutionarily speaking.

Please someone loan me their Hub to English book.

Ok, so either you are telling me to not fuck with it....which hurts cause I am bored this week and need something to do, or you are telling me that there is a pro-hack that fucks with the ignition curves wire and gets me what I want which is more low end grunt. I am not going to be happy until this thing dumps me off the back.

You lost me at the acronym btd-2 and 3.

I just want something that advances the timing in the lower gears... the cheaper the better.

thanks Hub
Joel

Now I have to turn off my computer Or I am going to stare at your post until Morning.

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I just want something that advances the timing in the lower gears... the cheaper the better.

The cheaper the better is book theory.

You lost me at the acronym btd-2 and 3.

Book diagnostic tree - 2. Wire out of connector sets the code, makes the timing move like a light switch eliminating the mid degree range. Same computer processing effect as the VOES on the disconnect.

So I grind/file some sort of tongue depressing tool out of a nail. It has to be thin enough, narrow enough, long enough to reach into the connector and depress the tang to create the wink-wink... bdt-2 goes into the cheap seats = Code buy any other name = Free!

Book theory says it all, meaning, the diagnostic abstract. And that means, a code can be induced 3 ways. I can't bring the computer v.s code into this analogy, but the bdt-theory means the same with a lamp:
1. Plug not connected to the wall = No light.
2. One wire is out of the loop = No light.
3. Filament not connected [unscrewed out of the receiver], short to ground [blows the house fuse], filament broken in bulb, [kind of] = No light.

Old eyes uses a jeweler's loop to see where the tang is located inside the connector. That's about a simple a hack to keep the wallet closed that does the same exact thing the prothing does. Follow the E processing to see the same hack.

Pro thing is a pre-processor input. BDT-3 says, 'signal out of range' so it never converts back to showing the shift window back to working order. The gps has resistors inside the unit. It has to send in that resistance now but can't. The pro thing cannot send in the correct signal being it is in the middle of the gps signal and anything in that tree can be found via... can't be a disconnect because technically they reconnect the wire(s) hacked. Can't be a wire out, because all are connect. Then there is no other explanation other than 'signal out of range.' Can't be a short because no fuse is blown going to ground.

So in theory, why would I buy something when a wire can do the same thing being out of its connector.

WATT Say Ye?

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depress the tang to create the wink-wink... bdt-2 goes into the cheap seats = Code buy any other name = Free!

Even though you confuse me more than half the time, I wouldn't want you to change your style.....it would be like killing a Unicorn. That being said, you lost me again.

Ok, so I find the ignition curve connector via the manual, and identify the correct wire somehow. Then I file a nail or something to create a tool that can slide down into the connector so that I can depress the tang and remove the wire. Correct?
question
why not just cut the wire? it can always be reconnected via solder.

also, you were describing two different methods of dealing with the issue right?
will bdt-2 still give me a green neutral light?

and I just can't disconnect the connector only because of the throttle part of it....right?

Chewy

* Last updated by: ExWifesChewToy on 9/24/2018 @ 11:03 AM *

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...you lost me again.

All of a sudden it's going to click. Let's go to page, 3-43. Code 11, where it says,'the signal is out of range, wire short, or open.
Said in hubspeak:
1. Open = Not connected.
2. Open = Wire out of connector.
3. Sig out of range/short = Yeah, those two for bdt-3.

I find the ignition curve connector via the manual, and identify the correct wire somehow.

Say we can't in so many parameters. Those parameters are:
(1) Vacuum load switch, or the IAP sensor. That is throttle load like the VOES. (2) ECU is the advancer that calc's the vac change, (3) the throttle position, (4) the crank sensor [rpm]>>> that changes the advance curves. Page 1-12, Eng: Timing advance; digital igniter in ECU. Ign timing; 10° BTDC. So with said telemetry, there is your digital calc at the curve. No pc is going to be that balanced in formula with said parameters in the loop. Like I said, the pc could never duplicate the tre-hit that you're looking for. It drops out the mid curve and from 10° to say the 30°+ range or even more advanced, I have no clue, but the computer has this ign-curve-drop covered if the sensor fails.

question
why not just cut the wire? it can always be reconnected via solder.

1. A pro does not tamper with the OEM.
2. A pro does not cut the wire when a bike comes in for repair. It's has that tongue depressor ready for electrical work.
3. A solder creates resistance and you do not want to tamper with the input sending in an out of range sig.
4. An amateur hands you back a soldered up wire harness and you would accept that, not a simple wire pull, diagnose the line and reinstall? Harley makes their connectors so serviceable, you use a tiny pocket screwdriver to depress the plastic clips that hold the female/male ends in place.
5. A connector tool and a soldering gun separates the pro from the __________ fill in the blank.

also, you were describing two different methods of dealing with the issue right?
will bdt-2 still give me a green neutral light?

I believe so. LG [light green] should be for the 6 to display in the gear select. That's the ign hack. The G/R [green red] goes to the ECU so that's tied in with the subthrottles. That will display N in the gear window. That's not what you want.
The two different methods or three?:
If you mean two hacks of 6 and N, then yes, there are two.
If you mean how many hacks are there to set the code? Then it's the 3 variables out of the manual, page 3-43.

and I just can't disconnect the connector only because of the throttle part of it....right?

Correct. I think N dominates at the gear window with a bdt-1. So with a simple disconnect, stab 1st and then select neutral to see if the green light comes on. If mem serves, N shows at the gear window. Key on, no starting needed.

I'm going to 'pull the plug' on any bad habits like soldering rather than learning the loophole like making a tool for the toolbox, and having the bike look clean and un-tampered with when trade-in comes, or next owner takes a good look and says; WATTS DIS? Then he questions the rest of the bike and oops, lost a sale, or oops, the mechanic in the back checked your bike for trade-in value and now questions the repair and drops the value of just the meaningless note to renegotiate. Right?

* Last updated by: Hub on 9/24/2018 @ 2:43 PM *

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page, 3-43. Code 11

Ok, I know where to find the plug, I know to disconnect it, I know which wire goes to which pin....just need to know which one controls timing. I remove that wire so that it can be put back.....like a pro, and then zip it all back up and do a butt dyno to check the results?

Main throttle sensor plug 3 wires all end at the ecu.
yellow/white
brown/black
blue

why not just cut the wire? it can always be reconnected via solder.

I won't ever say that again....If you lived local you could have just come by and said " so you want to cut the wire?".....then kicked me in the nuts. LOL

ok, so three hacks...you know my skill level, is this the easiest one to get to my goal.....I am not sure about the other 2 so I am hoping yes.

If it is removing the wire from the connector....I can do that. I did it on my 99 Escalade.

the mechanic in the back checked your bike for trade-in

Ok, now I get to vent......I wouldn't trade in my snot to a dealer. You buy something, You keep it, then you sell it to a person. You don't bend over and take it up the rear just to speed up the delivery of a nice new toy in your garage. Trading in is for rich folks or people that live so far out of town that there are no buyers.

thanks
Chewy

* Last updated by: ExWifesChewToy on 9/24/2018 @ 4:22 PM *

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"... just need to know which one controls timing"

LG [light green] should be for the 6 to display in the gear select. That's the ign hack.

______________________________________________________________

I won't ever say that again....If you lived local you could have just come by and said " so you want to cut the wire?".....then kicked me in the nuts. LOL

LOL, that was more or less calling one a squid with squid tactics.

If it is removing the wire from the connector....I can do that. I did it on my 99 Escalade.

At the gear position sensor, not the speed sensor. So light green is the wire dangling out of the connector = bdt-2.

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At the gear position sensor, not the speed sensor. So light green is the wire dangling out of the connector = bdt-2.

wouldn't it of been easier to just say " Joel, open the manual and find the gear position sensor. Locate the light green wire and remove it from the plug without cutting it. You will have to fashion a tool of some sort to feed it into the connector so that you can push the tang that holds the wire in the connector so that you can carefully pull the wire back out of the connector. This should cause your dash to read 6th gear all the time, which means your bike will be using the timing of 6th gear and not the reduced timing found on gears 1-4. Zip everything back together and go test ride it. If you get lazy and cut the wire instead I am either going to give you a verbal lashing or come over next weekend and stomp your nuts......your choice. I just saved you 150 bucks on the Gipro....spend it on hookers.

Hub.

Love
Chewy.

* Last updated by: ExWifesChewToy on 9/24/2018 @ 7:59 PM *

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LOLOLOL, I can... I can't... and I won't. I'm not wired that way.

Joel, Open the man you will learn the hard way we mess with computer wires. Light green is the hack attach, so stop thinking like a squidnick, file a pocket screwdriver down and act the doctor aN (alpha-numeric) ears nose and throat the fucker... gimme that soldershit, watthefukissgoinonhere? Hack goes limp and FULL Power is out the window. Tape the window so you are more a motocrosser with no dashit to distract you and the hack you set. There is no 1-4 goes back to stock? No, it is WATT it is for every gear. It's either on or off. It's either limped or at Full-Pee. And with the defaultsucker unit you almost paid for, send that over the counter for OEM plugs, air/oil filters, etc.

Signed,
NOLTT

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What???

I said in my beautiful paragraph that I was going to remove the wire from the connector.....your way and not cut. or solder later to fix a mess gone wild. Yes I plan on ears, nose and throating the fucker.

As far as the rest goes it's like you didn't even read my post....Uugh, Ok, one line at a time.

Joel, Open the man you will learn the hard way we mess with computer wires

not sure what this means except for the cutting the wire thing but that was put to rest.

How is this - "You will have to fashion a tool of some sort to feed it into the connector so that you can push the tang that holds the wire in the connector so that you can carefully pull the wire back out of the connector."
still squid....its the same thing you said but worded differently. You know... Neanderthal!

Hack goes limp and FULL Power is out the window

I know what this means but not why you said it unless you are still thinking I am going to cut and later solder if shit goes wrong, but we already put that to rest with my nuts getting destroyed so WTF?

Tape the window so you are more a motocrosser with no dashit to distract you and the hack you set.

This isn't even close to English.....I could look at this for a year and not figure out that line.
You are still giving me shit here I know it but what is the window and taping part?

There is no 1-4 goes back to stock? No, it is WATT it is for every gear. It's either on or off. It's either limped or at Full-Pee.

My understanding of the stock ecu is that gears 1-4 are set to be tame as far as timing....yes? So this mod makes them act like the non-tame gear 6 timing....right?

read my other post again slowly and tell me how it isn't the same thing as what you told me in all the posts combined.....except for the extra knowledge and new Hub words for me to learn of coarse.

Chewy

Now am I cleared to pull back the light green wire or not?

* Last updated by: ExWifesChewToy on 9/25/2018 @ 12:20 AM *

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not sure what this means except for the cutting the wire thing but that was put to rest.

Man You Will = Manual. Your paragraph was perfect. I'm just goofing with you and having some fun with the tech.

I know what this means but not why you said it unless you are still thinking I am going to cut and later solder

I think you figured it out that the pro way is the uncut way. Lots of ways to skin a cat, but I'll try and sway you away from cutting up a computer harness.

This isn't even close to English

That was short for saying... 'Do dirt bikes have dashboards? No. Does a motocross rider need a shift window number to know the gear they are in? No. If you hack a computer bike and the dash happens to flash, then tape over the blinks so you are not continually looking down to see what gear you're in. The eyes need to be looking at the road.' Read the line again and see if hubspeak makes sense now.

My understanding of the stock ecu is that gears 1-4 are set to be tame as far as timing....yes? So this mod makes them act like the non-tame gear 6 timing....right?

I'm not sure about this 1-4 timing reference. What little I know about the processor, there is a resistor in each gear. Page 3-71, look at the stepped sequence from 1 to 6. Does 1 thru 4 look like it's out of sequence and jumps real far to the next resistor for 5 and 6? I have to revert back to the abstract in the harley manual. It explains 3 curves and has this smooth transition throughout the rev range. But if the VOES fails, the processor uses 2 curves. Same kind of motherboard moves, same kind of; I have to follow ohm's laws or the motherboard and parts burn up. It means there is only one way to build a toaster with said parts and said wiring sequence or the toaster blows up/burns out/etc. The same handcuffing of building the processor is the same for harley as is for kawi. Only change is the 'same processing moves faster.' There is a 'backup' system if the units fail.

So ignition curve wise, this hack eliminates a curve, because the jolt is the jump from 10° to 55° and mimics the VOES. So in a way, you move sooner to full advance and think the bike has more pep as if you found more HP? I don't think so.

Now am I cleared to pull back the light green wire or not?

Yes, you are clear to pull the light green wire.
____________________________________________________________

These kinds of hacks helped me understand the computer bike, the diagnostic tree, and the abstract written in the book. It's safe and all good to go. Enjoy the hack.

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Yes, you are clear to pull the light green wire.

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jump from 10° to 55°

Will I need to run higher octane fuel in my ZX after this mod?

I run 87 right now with no issues.

Chewy

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No need. If it knocks back off quick. I run the same octane. Harley is 55° full advance, the 14 might be in the 30's degree wise.

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gear position sensor

We never talked about which side of the connector to pull the wire from

Is this the connector to mess with?

or is this the connector to mess with?

Now I am having trouble finding any obvious thing to press that will allow the wire to come out. I assume that it is the plug with the male pin in the connector. When I find the tang will the male pin come out the back with the wire?
I can't see into the plug from the wire side on both connectors so I am just jabbing a tiny allen wrench into the connector expecting to feel something give, while I lightly pull back on the wire. Being gentle of coarse.

Chewy

* Last updated by: ExWifesChewToy on 9/26/2018 @ 7:14 PM *

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Yes, male side. Easier to get at the tab.
Yes, male looses its hardon moving out of the connector in that direction.

Maybe you can set the camera/cell phone to micro. It's to capture the tang side. It's obvious the tang is butting up against the connector, because you can't pull it out, right? Pull out that rubber weatherpac plug and run it up the wire some. Maybe take a flashlight and run the light at the one end of the connector and see where the tang side is?

Push the wire into the connector. This moves it away from the stop wall, call it. This is where we wanted to grind/file a sacrificial coat hanger, pocket screwdriver, nail, something to be shaped as a flat blade. This is to slide under that tab and gently pull the wire out. This is so the tab rides up the blade, and you more have the tool stopped at the wall.

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shaped as a flat blade

I have been using a tiny ass allen wrench....about 1mm thick. Do you think that will work? It is much thinner than a coat hanger.

Chewy.

so if you can remember, would the movement be from the edge to the plastic cylinder inwards towards the wire to release or something else. I tried all four sides but didn't try pushing the wire inwards while using the tool. I did pry the rubber out but a piece is still stuck in there I will get at the rest of it and see tomorrow. I think working in the sun will create the most light.

Can't I work on the other plug someway instead?
I checked on ebay and I can get a used Neutral gear sensor for under 20 bucks.....If for some reason the Male pin side gets damaged, then I am fucked.....right?

I am all for being a pro but I spent an hour fucking with this plug and no cigar....It is either time to cancel the mod or cut the wire but on the female side. (covering nuts),

Now are you sure I find this tab in the hole with the wire or is it in the connector at the base of the male pin?

* Last updated by: ExWifesChewToy on 9/26/2018 @ 11:13 PM *

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