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Thread: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?

Created on: 08/08/19 11:13 AM

Replies: 15

JimGnitecki



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How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/08/19 11:13 AM

On previous multi-cylinder bikes, I have always taken the time to properly sync the throttle bodies using my 4-gage vaccuum setup. It often makes the initial throttle response, and the small-throttle-opening cruising performance notably better.

But when I looked up the process in the ZX-14R service manual for my 2017 ZX-14R, it APPEARS that it starts out by saying you REMOVE the entire throttle body assembly to install the vacuum lines and then temporarily re-install the throttle body assembly??? Is this ebcause of the unique "throttle bodies within the monocoque frame" feature of the ZX-14R??

Is there any SIMPLE way to attach vaccuum lines withOUT rmeoving the throttle body assembly, and then get accessto the adjustment screws to sync the 4 throttle bodies?

My currebt situation - living in a condo that we have put on the market and not yet being in a replacement detached home with my own garage - makes any work that involves any disassembly impossible, but I want to be ready to do the syncing within a few weeks when we hopefully will be in a home with my own garage.

Jim G

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Hub


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RE: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/08/19 9:57 PM

If we look at page 2-17, top right photo of the body, do you see two halved throttle bodies? The shafts of the throttle plates are machined perfectly so installing the plates should be pretty accurate. Since we cannot sync each plate, we are stuck with moving the center screw to sync the one shaft to the other.

If we find both 1 and 4 sync nipples on said body, all we need are both outer sync lines to match banks. We do not need to add the inner sync lines. However, you might need to remove the body from the engine to install the [inner] sync lines. If that's the case I'd remove the body once and have extended hoses coming out of all 4 so the hookup takes minutes... if chasing air screws that is.

It makes a difference if you plug the PAIR hose, and warm up the engine. Book knows the way for best results. As the book stated as well, the air screws are more or less tapped where the machine stopped and the next air hole is now tapped at say 3 o'clock, whereas the other hole started at 4 or 5 o'clock. So you have to count where the opening turn is located.

Disclaimer:
Beats me if I mess with the air screws and the ICV whacks the idle all over the place. Pre-ICV I'd close the air screws off, then sync 1 to 4 blades. I'd then install the other sync hoses and open all my air screws 1/4 turn out. I would then sync my air screws to each other. I was experimenting with an AFR meter and watched the ratio changes adding or eliminating air. Those were the idle cable days.

If I read pg. 2-20 (top left) and that is all I have to go by, I could turn both outer air screws closed, [write down my air-turn numbers in my owner's manual], the outer banks would turn rich and raise the idle... or not. Then if rpm is the target and AFR is not in the calc, I'm back to syncing the blades first, the air screws last. It's a two step process. Smooth is smoother. End of 'Dis is how we do it.'



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JimGnitecki



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RE: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/08/19 10:31 PM

Thank-you, Hub. I will take a closer look at where the adjuster screws are actually located and how accessible they are.

Jim G

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JimGnitecki



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RE: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/09/19 4:46 PM

Hub, can you list out all the body panels and other parts that I would need to remove in order to access the adjustment screws to sync the throttle bodies? I eed to see what each of those parts involves doing! (I remember all too well how much I had to remove simply to change to a Lithium battery, and still ended up with my power cord for my electric vest and gPS on the wrong side of the bike!!).

Jim G

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Hub


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RE: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/09/19 10:24 PM

If you look thru the shop manual you will find no references to panel removal per say. At this level of maintenance, the book assumes the panels are a given and working on the bike is a bit more involved service wise. Thus the work-thru of removing the t-body to 'replace/adj the air screws.'

My suggestion is remove one panel at a time, install the hardware into their holes, tape over the hardware and know who goes where once you replace the plastic. Collecting the hardware in a pile is going to take more time figuring out what hardware went where and so on. The bike assembles only one way. So you'll have to have some mechanical aptitude just walking up to a bunch of mounted plastic or leave it to the big boys. But shit, (gulp), someone follows book at the dealer on just a sync is knowing where the next brinks truck stops at.

If you follow book: Sacrifice one of the old lady's [tiny] makeup mirrors... the smaller the better. Maybe tape a wooden block behind it so this adds angle and support to find each air screw under the t-body. You'll need an L-screwdriver type to get to the air screw(s).

The better setup is to have a universal head so you can shorten those cheap screw shafts and custom make a flat blade to reach all the screws.

Manometer wise, there is no adjustment needed. Needle gauge wise, you have to make a needle adjustment and that is to use the one gauge on say cyl #1, read the needle position of the one gauge; then swap to the other gauge; see where that needle sits using cyl #1 again; and adjust the needle to the first gauge. Now you have a better chance balancing the blades with the needle style, forgo pulling the body to adjust the inner air screws (vac hookup)... did I day that? Flat rate my face with a slap!



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JimGnitecki



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RE: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/10/19 9:50 AM

Thanks, Hub! Wow! This IS a big deal compared to any other bike I have ever adjusted throttle body sync on! My friend's V4 Yamaha touring bike was an absolute piece of cake in comparison.

If I am understanding you correctly, getting to the INNER (Cylinders 2 and 3) adjustment screws requires removing the throttle body assembly, so you instead adjust the Cylinder 1 to Cylinder 2, and Cylinder 4 to Cylinder 3, to avoid having to remove the throttle body assembly.

Sice my ZX-14R has only 3800 kilometers (under 2400 miles) on its odometer, I will assume that nothing should have yet caused the Cylinders 1 and 2 shaft to slip out of sync with the Cylinders 3 and 4 shaft, so getting to the center screw should not even be required.

I will be using my 4-gage vacuum setup, so will be able to see all 4 cylinders' vacuum readings at once.

Given the bodywork complexities involved, I will for sure wait until I am in the new house in my own garage. :)

Jim G

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Hub


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RE: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/10/19 4:23 PM

"... getting to the INNER (Cylinders 2 and 3) adjustment screws requires removing the throttle body assembly..."
No. Getting to the inner 2-3 sync nipples is why you pull the body. Bike is running and the L-driver adjusts the 4 screws at the bottom.

"... so you instead adjust the Cylinder 1 to Cylinder 2, and Cylinder 4 to Cylinder 3, to avoid having to remove the throttle body assembly."
No. Instead, adjust the main plates the book says not to touch. And that's the center screw. Pg. 2-18 left column that says: NOTE... Do not turn center screw [D] Therefore, you'll see 1 and 4's nipples and sync the plates instead. Total backasswords adjustment against the book's way avoiding pulling the body.

Disclaimer:
Pg. 17-31. Loophole [from pulling the body] says: remove the 4 ISC (idle speed control) hoses, plug the ends up but have the same tiny air hole in each plug so the sync tubes receive the same input. I'm talking about using the step-down plugs that you push down into the manometer hoses it comes with. Code IC (idle control) pops on the dash, ECU chooses 'signal out of range' (no vacuum pulse), and shuts down the switch. ECU reads on/off as another 'backup', say the coil's rpm and all is well... is how I think it works.



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Rook


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RE: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/10/19 5:51 PM

when I looked up the process in the ZX-14R service manual for my 2017 ZX-14R, it APPEARS that it starts out by saying you REMOVE the entire throttle body assembly to install the vacuum lines and then temporarily re-install the throttle body assembly??? Is this ebcause of the unique "throttle bodies within the monocoque frame" feature of the ZX-14R??

No, you don't remove the T-Bodies to sync. It probably would make getting at the screws a lot easier if you could do it that way. Might actually almost be worth the trouble to tell you the truth.

LINK TO SYNCING THE GEN1 click here

Also, I turned the center screw. There is a diagram in my tutorial that shows what the adjuster screws do. If you'r off enough, you might need to adjust the center screw.

I could tell no real dif after syncing. It was good before and no better after.


* Last updated by: Rook on 8/10/2019 @ 5:55 PM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, Super Sprox 17t output sprocket, AFM 45t rear sprocket, EK zzz 530 chain, Gilles Tooling axle adjusters, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Ignition Module, LCD-200, Speedohealer V4, Glow-Shift gauges, Illumiglow 210 mph clock faces, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Moto-D magnetic oil drain plug, MIT billet oil filler cap, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, LighTech fuel tank cap, Vortex rearsets, lightweight mudflap bracket, FP Racing preload adjusters, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Bridgeport 90° valve stems, CZ 320mm front rotors, Galfer rear wave rotor, Pazzo levers, ProBots Dzus fasteners and many other bolts replaced with aluminum or Ti, Vortex mirror blocks, CRG bar end mirrors, LSL frame sliders, axle sliders, billet bar ends, 2WheelWorkz muffler

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JimGnitecki



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RE: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/10/19 5:54 PM

Rook: Before I spend the time to analyze your link: My ZX-14R is a 2017 Gen 2. Is the process for Ge 1 and Gen 2 the same, or different?

Jim G

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Rook


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RE: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/10/19 5:59 PM

Got me, Jim. The T bodies are bigger on the Gen2. IDK if the syncing process is the same for both bikes.

Hub?



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, Super Sprox 17t output sprocket, AFM 45t rear sprocket, EK zzz 530 chain, Gilles Tooling axle adjusters, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Ignition Module, LCD-200, Speedohealer V4, Glow-Shift gauges, Illumiglow 210 mph clock faces, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Moto-D magnetic oil drain plug, MIT billet oil filler cap, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, LighTech fuel tank cap, Vortex rearsets, lightweight mudflap bracket, FP Racing preload adjusters, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Bridgeport 90° valve stems, CZ 320mm front rotors, Galfer rear wave rotor, Pazzo levers, ProBots Dzus fasteners and many other bolts replaced with aluminum or Ti, Vortex mirror blocks, CRG bar end mirrors, LSL frame sliders, axle sliders, billet bar ends, 2WheelWorkz muffler

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Hub


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RE: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/10/19 11:29 PM

As per gen2 shop manual (2016 and up), 'remove body', hook up sync hoses, install body. 2nd gen book also states not to move the throttle plates. It first says to bring the air screws to spec. Spec is 275mmHg +/- 10mmHg. So say 1-2 bank has cylinder 2 at 270mmHg. You look at the plus/minus and it shows it's within spec. The other shows 275mm and that too is in spec. Do you move the screws? No. All that just to get at the inner sync nipples.

Gen1 manual (2006 to 2015) 293mmHg +/- 10mmHg. The manual says to sync the blades first. That means if 1 is low and 3 is high, move the center blade screw so both hi/low are equal-blade wise. That also means the mmHg has to be within 10+/- of the 293 with all 4 vac number positions. You just used the higher vac of the both banks to sync the blades.

Air screw wise, both books say; carbon build is going to close down the hole if not clog it and no matter the air screw move, no joy = Remove body and clean body holes, change out needles (wink-wink lawyer speak says). No factory is going to say to reuse [the same] old parts, especially when the o-ring cracks and/or shrinks, the needle's taper is chemically etched for so many years of condensation at the needle's finish. Book covering their ass is all that is saying. So this is one of the variables the sync is not within spec adj wise.

My hubberstanding looks at thishit and says there are 2 more variables you can look at sync wise. So my off the wall way of looking at this is to close the air screws, the air pulse says; for every action the reaction is springing off the foot blade shaft is the screw needle's end and acts the hammer head is the other shaft. There goes a divot in the foot, and the blades are now off from each other, correct?

So by closing the air screws, I can choose any cylinder on the one bank of the body and choose the other side that is the easiest to get at nipple wise. I'm now going to see where my blades are and adjust from there. All I did was move the center screw so both shafts show blade-bank-equalization. A blip of the throttle shows equal footing (pun popup).

I have to step out of the box looking at those sync levels. I hook up the other two sync hoses. I'm watching the air screw openings for all cylinders. I moved the screws out to said turns, match 1 to 2 because that's one shaft with two machined blades you can't adjust. Sync the air screw of 3 to 4 and those are linked to the other blades you can't adjust. Do I move the center screw and now plug up my remote hose lines to 2-3, start the bike and sync the center screw to those air screw pulses? The fuck no. Can I take a ride and find out if a blade match is not as smooth as an air screw to blade match?

Only your assfactor knows for sure.

Hey, I didn't write the abstract in those gen books, but sucking only sucks one way. That's 4 ways to sync FI:

1. Gen 1 says to find the the higher mmHg and adjust the blades so they more or less match, forget the lower numbers, they are still within spec.

2. Gen 2 says to not adjust the blades, but see that the air screws are within spec of that number's mmHg+/- base spec number.

3. Hub has it as a 2-step procedure with the air screws closed and the blades adjusted first. Then open the air screws to factory/optional openings and sync each bank to themselves.

4. Hub then sets the 4th dimension; is to sync the blades to the air screws?

Confused or does the abstract make perfect sense 4 ways? Sucks don't it. (pun popup)



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JimGnitecki



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RE: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/11/19 9:35 AM

I get now what you are doing with your method, Hub. If I use the service manual method for Gen 2, I don't mess with the center screw at all. That makes the process easier for me, and since my bike is so new (under 2400 miles, it's unlikely that the 1-2 shaft and the 3-4 shaft have gotten out of sync.

The part that I don't like is having to take off the throttle body assembly just to get the number 2 cylinder and number 3 cylinder vacuum hoses on! Would it not be possible to do that withOUT removing the throttle body assembly by using a mirror and forceps, or just by feel?

Jim G

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Hub


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RE: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/11/19 4:26 PM

Correct. I'm over 16000km without checking sync. Starts, idles, runs perfectly.

"Would it not be possible to do that withOUT removing the throttle body assembly by using a mirror and forceps, or just by feel?"
As mentioned, the 4 idle hoses that plug into the ISC switch could be used for sync hoses without removing the body. The mirror is to find the air screws at the bottom of the throttle body. That's why you need the L-screwdriver style tool.

Maybe a video of the body and what you are looking for might clear things up. Let me make an attempt at it.



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JimGnitecki



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RE: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/11/19 5:32 PM

Yes,a video would be wonderful! :)

Jim G


* Last updated by: JimGnitecki on 8/11/2019 @ 5:32 PM *

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Hub


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RE: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/12/19 6:02 PM

You are viewing "Piss Poor Productions" with an attempt at using a camera and no script. It's all about walking up to any [contemporary] throttle body. The 3 holes used, the 4 tunes you can apply. Tell me I don't love FI.

Left hand with fingers pointed up: Index is 1cyl - pinkie is 4cyl; as if sitting on the bike. Bad move on me as I think this out. I just stopped myself from syncing what I thought I could get away with. Silly me if I chose 2 and 4 cylinders to sync the middle screw. I am back to a full close at both those air screws, sync my plate, back the screws out as per factor turns; install the other lines off the ISC, match both banks with all the air screws.

Or... I open both air screws back to spec and crap my shoot. Do I play with those two screws to match each other since I'm gauged up anyway? Will my 4cyl-pinkie drop even more and beak-out of spec?

Catching the variables in the abstracthinking?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UAFvI7oRbDs&feature=youtu.be



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JimGnitecki



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RE: How do you sync the throttle bodies' vacuum reaidngs without disassembly?
08/12/19 7:39 PM

Thank-you, Hub. I see clearly now why this is so hard to do in real life: there is a LOT of stuff "in the way", in a very tight 3D space.

Jim G


* Last updated by: JimGnitecki on 8/12/2019 @ 7:40 PM *

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