I posted this before and thought I had fixed it, but the problem is still occurring.

At all temperature ranges when I clutch in, like when coming to s stop light, the bike idle will drop down below 1,000 rpm and often stall out. If it doesn't die it will eventually return to the prescribed idle, and if I throttle a little it will go back as well. But if I simply clutch and let it do it's thing it stalls about 50% of the time.

I don't notice as much riding alone because I am a generally aggressive rider and don't spend much time at idle, but recently the wife and I have been riding with the neighbors on their cruiser and it dies quite a bit tooling along at their riding speeds.

Any suggestions? I see lots of posts about this with the common suggestion being to adjust the idle, but the bike falls BELOW the adjusted idle speed causing the bike to stall.

Sorry I should also mention that I do have a PC5 and Autotune, but the first 2 throttle and RPM ranges are zeroed out so the bike ECU has control there.

This bike's idle CAN be adjusted...I'm sure I read it in the manual.DFI chapter or something.

The idle can be adjusted, I have already adjusted it to where it needs to be, but this is still happening.

" thought I had fixed it"...why'd you think that?What did you do that changed it 'to work'.

Maybe add some injector cleaner in it then?And lube up the throttlebody cables.IDK...might help.How's the return slack setting?
This HAS happened to my 07 I remember.I readjusted the idle screw.But you said you've done that.Surely someone else has had this and fixed it. I don't think it should 'drop' with a closed throttle grip.Basically,that's mechanically 'not possible'...I think.I did turn mine(the grip)'closed' against the stop,and it still had just enough movement to lower the rpms by a few hundred.Something was allowing it to drop lower.Probably not the same deal as you're having.Try raising the idle just a bit higher than you already did?Could it have something to do with the TP?Is THAT set right?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/21/2017 @ 1:52 PM *

I don't want to raise the idle anymore than it is as it will cause hard shifting into 1st.

I believe my return is good, when it is idling properly I cannot force the throttle handle forward to make it happen myself.

Well...I guess the choice is...hard shift into first,or stalling.Could be you have some buildup from the fuel in the throttlebody?IDK.I'd give the cleaner a shot...but again,you didn't say how you 'fixed it' the first time.Whatever you did then,you're on to something most likely.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/21/2017 @ 2:44 PM *

Possibly the clutch is not letting go all the way when you pull the lever. This would cause the clutch to slip at idle which would cause the rpm to decrease. The plates would be sliding over one another loosely gripping and dragging down the rpm.

I imagine the bike might be creeping forward at idle with clutch pulled too (but don't take this as a definite symptom because they all creep when cold). If you give it some throttle, that would break the seal between the plates or it might even make it creep faster if they are stuck hard enough.

If the lever is not pushing the master cylinder pusher rod in enough, that might cause it. I sort of doubt that would do it because a lot of people don't even pull the lever to the grip when they disengage the clutch.

The pusher rod from slave to pressure plate could be too short but I doubt that too for same reason mentioned above.

Clutch pack could be too tall. Was the clutch changed recently? If your clutch pack takes up too much space, the plates can't let go as easily.

Sounds to me like your plates are sticking together when disengaged. Something isn't moving enough to allow instant clutch disengagement.

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/21/2017 @ 3:49 PM *

Clutch plates assembled in the wrong order, anti-judder spring assembled backward---those would give you the wrong clutch pack thickness.

Take off oil filler cap. You should see exactly THIS vv

That is a brand new clutch. If you see more plates than the first two and a half, the clutch is too tall. You should see the pressure plate edge aligned to the end of the fingers. Bear in mind, a worn out clutch will look pretty similar since a worn out clutch is only 1 mm shorter than new. Under no circumstances should you see the clutch protruding farther than what is shown here, however. Again, 1 mm makes the differernce between worn out and new so if the clutch is too tall, it might not have to be much taller than new before it causes a problem. After all, your clutch is working, it's just not working as fast as it should.

I would also expect rough shifts if the clutch was not disengaging. ...at least I would assume. And a real hard bang into first from N. Who knows though--might be hard for you to detect if the bike has been doing it since you got it.

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/21/2017 @ 4:03 PM *

Well I guess it is fixed AGAIN.

I did check the clutch which resulted in me forgetting to replacing the oil fill cap and dousing my right leg in oil lol.

1. First I went back to the OEM clutch lever I had changed out a few months ago. No difference.

2. I then began messing with the TPS as the DynoJet tech had to make some adjustments on it after I installed the PCV. That didn't help any.

3. I made some adjustments to the throttle and return cables which didn't help either, but I am happier with now.

4. In the end I finally re-installed the map I had started with from the DynoJet website and it seems to be working fine now. I really don't understand how this worked because I had already zeroed out the first 2 throttle percentage and RPM columns on the map. So the bike should have been running on it's own at those ranges. I don't understand how the map now (which is at 13.2 in those fields) is working fine.

Does anyone have any ideas why this would be so? The only thing I can think of is that the bike itself didn't like transitioning from whatever the PCV was telling it to run at to whatever the factory settings were in the lower throttle range, causing it to struggle to catch back up hence the lower RPMs.

At any rate the motor settles back down to 11G RPM nicely when I downshift and stop. I hope it stays this way.

* Last updated by: projo198 on 9/21/2017 @ 7:11 PM *

GREAT!Electronics...gotta love em!I guess NOW you can try lowering your rpms to suit the slamming 1st gear some?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/21/2017 @ 7:27 PM *

Yes. My idle was set between 12-13 which was acceptable but still a little high for my liking. It is right at 11 now and sounds much better. That and the tighter throttle make for a much different riding experience alone.

I hope the map doesn't go screwy again. Up until now I have simply been accepting the suggested trims every few weeks. I may have to step up my tuning approach.

Well it shouldn't go koo koo now.If it's working...it should stay like that I would think."12-13"...I can't even imagine my 14 that high at idle.Musta been pretty annoying.Lowering it(as you mentioned at first)is the one 'solution' to reducing the clunk that seems to help most.12-13?Wow.Talk about 'slammin'...nothing broke with it like that?;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/21/2017 @ 7:51 PM *

Can you post some more details about your bike? What year is it, other than the PCV and autotune do you have any other mods (ie air filter, exhaust, ignition module, PAIR block off, etc).

I was going to suggest before you fixed the issue to see if the bike stalls when in neutral and sitting idle, if it does the issue has nothing to do with the clutch.

My bike idles right at the 1,000RPM mark and I have no issues with stalling and can even get the bike moving with very little/no throttle letting the RPMs drop down to 800 or so without a stall.

As for the map, you mentioned 13.2, which is most likely an AFR map setting and depending on the configuration of your autotune/PCV is probably adjusting the fueling enough to provide enough power. Purely speculating now, but with other mods its plausible that with zeros in all of the cells (assuming both fuel and target AFR) the mixture might have been too lean and resulted in insufficient power at that throttle position & RPM to maintain a steady idle.

Rook did up a how-to on the autotune that if you are unfamiliar with the device I would suggest reading to get a better understanding of how the system works. I love my autotune module but there is a definite learning curve associated with using it properly and fine tuning your map to give you performance, throttle response and fuel economy.
http://www.zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=82EE3378-978F-4244-17A47B554179390E

13.2 AFR = Rich.
Upon lift = Loads up rich.
Too rich for idle = Stalls, garbles, chokes up.
Map = Pisscrap.

I did check the clutch which resulted in me forgetting to replacing the oil fill cap and dousing my right leg in oil lol.

The only thing I can think of is that the bike itself didn't like transitioning from whatever the PCV was telling it to run at to whatever the factory settings were in the lower throttle range, causing it to struggle to catch back up hence the lower RPMs.

That seems weird if the map was zeroed but as Nightmare pointed out, if Autotune was enabled and the AFR table was NOT zeroed in the 0% TP column, Autotune would apply a nonpermanent trims to your fueling while it was running at 0% throottle. As we know, AutoTune bounces to and fro until it achieves the target AFR that is in the table so you could have been experiencing some bad fueling that resulted as Autotune was correcting itself. I saw my AFR go way lean (think it was in the 20s) once when I first started at idle and the engine did almost stall. That's when I zeroed the 0% TP column. I also set Autotune to start 120 seconds after startup.

If your TPS is not calibrated to the PC5, you might run on the fueling for the wrong TP. SO if it's way off, you might have Autotune working on correcting fueling at idle while using the 5% column or something like that. There is a specced voltage range you enter to the TPS calibration utility and then you capture the actual TPS voltage by runing the engine at 0% and then 100% TP. Sounds like you did this. As long as the correct specced voltage range was input and your real life voltage numbers are close, it should be fine.

Sorry for the late reply guys, long weekend.

Not very many mods on my 2009 bike. Stock exhaust has been modified to accept generic slip-ons. PCV and Autotune installed, Schnitz ECU flash (top speed and rev limiter only), still has the factory air filter and no other mods.

The map may be bad HUB, but since I originally had the first 2 throttle % and RPM columns zeroed it shouldn't have mattered to my knowledge. Everything seems to be working now with them at 13.2. I have a hook up for a free dyno which I am going to have done after riding season. Before that I am going to remove the catalytic converter material and switch air filters out.

As for the TPS; the dyno guy remoted into my laptop and set that for me when I installed the PCV. I don't know what the numbers were when I started this time, but I followed the steps for 0 and WOT and the min and max voltage numbers were comparable to what others have said they are on their bikes, so I think that part is done right.

My bike has not been fighting between the ECU and PVC on start up like is used to and what prompted me to zero out certain columns on my map per ROOK's earlier suggestion. I can't recall what setting I have for the Autotune to kick on, but I will check it today.

Other than that I think I am going to leave the bike alone for now, finish the season up and settle it all out with a dyno run and tune this winter.

* Last updated by: projo198 on 9/25/2017 @ 9:30 AM *