Hello everyone,

I wanted to ask are there members on this site who uses Woolich Racing hardware/software to flash their own ECU's? I've owned WR for a couple of years because of previous bikes that I used it to flash/derestrict their ECU's. When I recently purchased my 14 I simply had to purchase the WR harness kit that was compatible with my 2012 14R. I've fully derestricted it by modifying the STP's to open sooner, rev limiter/top speed limiter, dec. fuel cut, etc., however, I visited WR's mapshare site where users upload their tunes for others to try, and one thing I found common amongst these tune files is that they pretty much all have stock fueling(IAP/TPS)with stock ignition tables. There's one file where it has modified fueling after a 80 miles autotune session and the ignition is advanced 3 degrees across the entire table :(.

I've read many threads where it appears the most common method of flashing ECUs with this bike is by mail in flash. I guess me being part of the ZX10R community it's very common for riders to flash their own bikes, and share their experiences with modifying various parameters of the ECU to maximize performance...particularly with WR hardware/software. Is there anything to gain with the 14R by modifying fuel/ignition with only slip-ons? If so, are there any members of this board who owns WR flashing hardware and have pretty much the same setup(Stock w/slip ons), and have successfully added timing and fueling that provided performance gains?

Thanks

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I tuned my Gen1 with full system using Dynojet Autotune. I did it the right way and I had the target AFR on the money from 2000 rpm up to about 10,000 at all throttle positions. I couldn't feel any huge difference except I was able to go WOT at 2000 rpm in 6th gear and it ran smooth. That impressed me. It also might have smoothed out the secondary throttle opening response just a bit more than the base map I was using. As for power increases, I'm not sure I would have noticed any difference from my tune compared to any of the three other fuel maps I tried.

I'm not familiar with Woolich Autotune but unless it has some kind of built in system that prevents it from sampling while rolling off throttle, I'm not sure it will make a good fuel map by riding the bike for 80 miles. The way to do it with DJ autotune is to hold one throttle position from the lowest rpm to the highest and then let go of the throttle abruptly just as you would on a dyno. I found this to be pretty dangerous at 160+ mph. I would suggest a switch to deactivate Autotune when the high rpm is reached so it can't sample any cells while you are rolling off safely and smoothly at high speed. There's more to the technique than that and I have a tutorial on here if you're interested.

As for timing, the safe adjustments have always been a little known secret. I'd be very careful about changing the stock timing if the Woolich software doesn't show you the stock table. I imagine there are even fewer people who have a clue about timing now that most just send in their ECU and let the tuner do everything.

So thats the easy answer, hand it over to a tuner and let them do it. That's how it's done now. I have much resect for anyone who takes enough interest to learn it themself but there are so few who do now, it's becoming a lost art except to the tuners.

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Thanks Rook!

Yesterday I reached out to a Vendor to ask if they offered email services, opposed to mailing my ECU in, since I already own the hardware and would just need the .wrb file to flash to my ECU. They responded that they didn't and that I would need to remove my ECU, pack it up, mail it to them and wait for it to return, when my thought process is that they could just charge me the same price as a mail in service and simply email me the file and I will do the rest. It then dawned on me that the possible reason they don't offer a email service for those who own their own Woolich flashing hardware, and it's to protect their Tune files from prying eyes. I'm pretty sure they "Tune Lock" their files and rightfully so to prevent people from sharing their hard work.

I ended up getting a hold of a PC5 to Woolich conversion software, where I can download Dynojet's canned files (I use to own DJ PC5/Auto Tune hardware) and convert them to Woolich's fuel tables so that I can upload and flash. So far so good and today I will be testing one of the DJ files (slip-ons/stock air filter) that I was able to convert/flash via the software. From just scanning the converted file it seems to take away a significant amount of fuel from 10-100% TPS...this bike must be very rich in stock form. IAP values I'm not too much worried about since it only effects <10% fueling. At this point I will just leave the ignition tables stock.

* Last updated by: siroht on 6/23/2022 @ 8:36 AM *

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I just got back from a ride to test the PC5 file(Akrapovic Dual Slip Ons)that I converted over to a Woolich file and flashed to my ECU, and I must say that I notice a difference for the better....not mind blowing but a difference that it's noticed in regards to better/smoother throttle response when hammering it from a roll with little to no decel popping. The butt dyno isn't as dependable or accurate as a dynometer, but I'll continue to test other PC5 files to see which one I like better.

* Last updated by: siroht on 6/23/2022 @ 7:49 AM *

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It then dawned on me that the possible reason they don't offer a email service for those who own their own Woolich flashing hardware, and it's to protect their Tune files from prying eyes.

I'm sure that's it, especially their target AFR and timing tables.

The Dynojet maps are probably going to be more on the conservative side but like I said, I didn't notice a huge difference. I used the map installed by the vendor I bought my PC5 from and it was probably a DJ map since they were not a tuner. I then I used a map from a tuner that was created on a same year ZX-14 with my exact exhaust system. I switched to a map made by a member here (Romans) who is extremely knowledgeable and had built several turbo ZX-14s. Then I autotuned Romans' map. Each step was an incremental improvement but I would have to add, VERY small increments. My autotuned map with Romans' map as a base was the biggest difference but as mentioned befpre, I might not have noticed the change had I not been paying close attention.

Yeah, I've always heard the stock fueling is very rich. If there is a stock AFR map, I'd be curious to see what those numbers are. I believe 12.5 was a good AFR to shoot for on the Gen2. Of course, the best AFR changes according to rpm and TP. That's the real secret tuners want to keep to themselves, I'm sure.

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I may just end up investing in Woolich's auto tune setup for this bike. Since my bike has no O2 sensor I'll have to weld a hole in the exhaust for the Woolich O2 sensor along with removing the pair valves. I'll shoot for a 12.5 target afr and see how that feels, however, it seems that the general consensus is to lean out the afr as the RPM/TP increases. I know it'll be trial and error and without putting it on a dyno, I'm just shooting in the dark because the butt dyno won't be able to discern whether or not I need to add/subtract fuel along the midrange where most gains happen up to the top end if tuned correctly.

Update-

I performed some high/top speed runs today in excess of 170 MPH, and I experienced a stuttering only when decelerating when I'm somewhere around the 11,000 RPM range and afterwards I would give it more throttle and it'd stutter momentarily and then it'd proceed to accelerate as expected.

I returned home to reflash the stock fuel map and went back out to see if the issue still exist and thankfully the bike didn't exhibit the issue again. I tried my best to replicate it but no dice. I will be sticking with the stock fuel map for now and may invest in tuning the fuel if I see the need in the future for a few more ponies.

* Last updated by: siroht on 6/25/2022 @ 6:08 PM *

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Since my bike has no O2 sensor I'll have to weld a hole in the exhaust for the Woolich O2 sensor along with removing the pair valves.

It's best to place the sensor in a spot where exhaust from all cylinders comes together but don't go too far back toward the muffler or you get reverberations that confuse the sensor. My O2 sensor was placed in my 4-2-1 where the four step down to two and pointing out to the LH side of the bike. It was sampling exhaust mostly from the two cylinders on the left or so it would seem. I would rather it have been placed a couple inches farther back where exhaust from all cylinders mixed. However, I was told that even if it only sampled from one cylinder, that should give reliable results. The difference in exhaust from one cylinder isn't much different from any other. Wherever you put the sensor, obviously make sure it will clear everything when the sensor is installed. It's probably best to weld the bung with the pipe on the bike. You also need to angle the sensor enough so that it doesn't collect condensation. It will burn out right away if water sets in it repeatedly.

I'll shoot for a 12.5 target afr and see how that feels, however, it seems that the general consensus is to lean out the afr as the RPM/TP increases.

12.5 should be perfectly safe. You might be able to go leaner but I would get expert advice on that before I tried it in the upper revs. Looking back at my autotune tutorial, I used an AFR of 13.1 for my Gen1. I used 13.1 across the board. Here's the advice I got from Romans and which was paraphrased in my tutorial:

13.1~13.3 AFR for a Gen1; 13.7~13.9 AFR for a Gen2. I suggest going with the richer number to start.

I believe 12.5 is the number suggested by DJ. DJ is very conservative because they don't want to be on the hook for burning up anyone's engine.

AFR is a complicated matter. richer seems to produce more torque on the bottom end, leaner produces better hp on top, looks to me like Romans fattened up the AFR just a tad at higher rpm and larger throttle positions. I can only assume he tried many AFRs and made his choices based on what he felt produced the best performance and what seemed reasonably safe. This would have had to have taken many runs, maybe hundreds. I'm sure he must have gone on advice from knowledgeable sources too. I can't imagine him doing enough high speed runs to test every cell of the map and I also can't imagine he would have been able to make a determination on what timing was perfect without having a dyno. It would also be a lot of wear on the bike to test every cell, you'd have a thousand miles of runs over 100 mph. Not to mention it takes DJ autotune at least three runs before the exact fuel trims are achieved so multiply that by three. I'm pretty sure Woolich autotune reacts much faster than DJ though so you'd be at an advantage with the number of runs you'd need to do.

I will be sticking with the stock fuel map for now and may invest in tuning the fuel if I see the need in the future for a few more ponies.

Well there you go, tuning on the road is risky at high speed for a variety of reasons. I mentioned chopping the throttle earlier. That taught me my lesson. Pull the clutch or get an autotune switch. I guess it doesn't matter much if you crash at 170 on the road or on a track but at least you don't need to worry about police on a track. That's how I will do it if I get into tuning again. I had my share of warning signs, not just with tuning at high speed but other things too.

* Last updated by: Rook on 6/26/2022 @ 9:20 AM *

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Hey siroht

Do you have the stock Ignition table by chance?

Here's a snapshot of the stock ignition table (unified) for 2012-2015 14R's. When I expand the table this was all I could snippet. The bottom row's values (past 11,000 RPMs) are the same as what you can see on the last row

* Last updated by: siroht on 6/26/2022 @ 12:43 PM *

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Thanks siroht. I'll keep a copy of that incase I ever get a Gen2. If this is stock timing used for a unified map, it's probably the 6th gear stock timing from the OEM per gear mapping mapping, right?

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You are correct Rook!

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Thanks

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