HUB!
So I think I have a handle on the cool dense air working better with a richer target AFR, and hotter air jives up with a leaner target AFR. I was re-reading your input from the other tuning thread. Were you saying setting up these different cool vs hot air maps, loading and running w/o auto tune on? I am an always on kinda user. Just curious.
Also would you have any insight on whether certain areas of the rpm range benefit from slightly leaner or richer afr
Settings? In your experience. I also wonder about elevation deviation. Here in Illinois, we have the thicker air that comes with 600' +- above sea level (Mississippi river valley) I spent some years in Wyoming @ around 4200' elev. would similar map altruisms apply to elevation deviation, or does auto tune handle that kind of change within a single map structure?

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Were you saying setting up these different cool vs hot air maps, loading and running w/o auto tune on?

Correct. You could collect different temp auto maps on cool times. Grab as much rpm so the map is fully covered throughout the range; save and run it (w/AT off). Auto keeps creating a map and changes as the temp/alt changes. So you chase this short, cool window range in the early part of the day.

I also wonder about elevation deviation.

Take for example the variables (in my way of thinking) of the pressure sensors. There is the altitude sensor and the intake sensor. Both sensors are interchangeable. Say the sensor(s) adjust for altitude and say: from 1 to 5 represents 1000 foot increments. So say the bike is not running at level 3 [I'll get back to that]. Say someone builds a map at level 1. Well, that's a 3000 foot jump from say 4 or 600 feet (guessing) is where dynojet sits in the desert and tunes their maps at those sensor pressures. You receive a plotted map at somewhere close to sea level pressure. Again, your bike is turned off and both sensors show a pressure change of 3000 feet and these are the numbered inputs. Whereas, the dj map was calc'd somewhere around a 1000 foot>>> sensor setting. So with the key off, isn't there a math entry right out of the gate you are up against? The input numbers set at level 3 now calc off a level 1 map.

That's where you hear someone asking for a different map to send them. They run up against those sensors fixed at some other level. Same goes for the OE bike being sent off to any level and still runs well. The sensors work in a certain range and uses the 'best' number that the processor comes up with. So factory wise the map is set in the middle range call it. So aftermarket map wise, it may run, but it may not run well when 'best' [processed number] is handcuffed to the inputs.

Those 2 same sensors have a binary number fixed at the same number with key off. Kind of make sense now? The atmo sensor remains fixed at said alt pressure. The intake has a pressure-pull differential and that shows a different binary input number than say a level 1 pull number. So as the computer processes both these numbers against the level 1 made map, [I can't say for sure], but (my way of thinking) has some sort of math is rejecting numbers between binaries. It comes up with an alternative [best number for the variable] and say... where does the map's performance sit now?

So in a way, autotune is a rolling dyno [for any level], and you now match those parameters for those key off/key on numbered inputs. Meaning, both sensors are in line with a fixed altitude input, and the vacuum pressure differential numbered input. Just to name a few. Make sense in a way?

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Auto keeps creating a map and changes as the temp/alt changes. So you chase this short, cool window range in the early part of the day.

As the air changes through the day, Autotune needs to keep trying to correct for it. I haven't done any tests but seeing what Autotune does RIGHT AFTER I have made perfect AFRs with a tuning run, I think it's just bouncing around back and forth over most of the powerband. How could my perfect AFRs need adjustment (and I mean sizable adjustments) 20 minutes later? The answer is that Autotune is too slow to tune properly on the fly uness it is right in a cell where you can cruise at a constant TP/rpm. You see that happen on the AFR gauge when you maintain steady rpm and TP. After a few seconds of bouncing up and down, AT narrows it down and the AFR stops fluctuating. The problem with hoping to tune the whole map that way is that you CANNOT stay at in a single cell for more than a fraction of a second because the rpm will rise very quickly. Theoretically, you could very skillfully roll off the throttle to maintain exactly the same rpm but that would also put you in different cells, all for a fraction of a second. Further, Autotune does not give good trims while rolling off the throttle; only advancing or preferably just staying on one TP. Roll off causes fuel dumps and exhaust reverbs. Gives the O2 sensor false samples.

Autotune only works if you tune like my tutorial tells you. I leave mine on to correct while cruising but if I want the most accurate mapping, Autotune is off. I already did all the work and if the air has changed that much, I need to to redo it and make a high altitude map or a cold air map or a nitrous map. Save that in the POD-300 and change in when needed. OR save in map position two and flip the switch when needed. Forget about Autotune doing the tuning for you as you ride the bike as/normal. You need to do runs and accept trims until they zero out.

To tell you the truth, perfect AFR is not something I can feel by the seat of my pants. If the current mapping is making the bike run well, a better map will probably not be more than a subtle improvement IMHO.

You receive a plotted map at somewhere close to sea level pressure. Again, your bike is turned off and both sensors show a pressure change of 3000 feet and these are the numbered inputs. Whereas, the dj map was calc'd somewhere around a 1000 foot>>> sensor setting. So with the key off, isn't there a math entry right out of the gate you are up against? The input numbers set at level 3 now calc off a level 1 map.

The inlet air pressure sensor, the altitude sensor--they sense air pressure. They're not going to do anything to your fueling unless your air pressure changes. These sensors don't care what the fueling is as long as the air pressure remains constant.

If your air pressure does change, the pressure sensor's decision to switch stock mapping could fight your custom mapping. There's another reason to make a map for different altitudes if they make the bike run better at those altitudes. Pop in the high altitude map and you have perfect fueling made from runs done with the altitude sensor triggering map level 2 or 3 or whatever you want to call the alternate mapping the altitude sensor caused the ECU to switch to.

We have a member who NEEDED to tune for very high altitude. Apparently, the altitude sensor wasn't cutting it even though he ran at that altitude every day.

That's where you hear someone asking for a different map to send them. They run up against those sensors fixed at some other level. Same goes for the OE bike being sent off to any level and still runs well. The sensors work in a certain range and uses the 'best' number that the processor comes up with. So factory wise the map is set in the middle range call it. So aftermarket map wise, it may run, but it may not run well when 'best' [processed number] is handcuffed to the inputs.

Do tuning runs.

Romans map runs good at my altitude and I'm 650" higher. I might not even notice the dif from my Autotune refined map which had a sigle target AFR throughout compared to Romans' which has several target AFRs. I reiterate, if the bike runs good on the current mapping, a tune isn't going to make a huge change. That's been my experience. I guess it depends on what you consider a huge change but to me that would mean you couldn't miss it. As mentioned before, the change was subtle. Most would consider a +3T rear sprocket a much more noticeable change and even that is not all that and a bag of chips.

So in a way, autotune is a rolling dyno [for any level], and you now match those parameters for those key off/key on numbered inputs. Meaning, both sensors are in line with a fixed altitude input, and the vacuum pressure differential numbered input. Just to name a few. Make sense in a way?

Do tuning runs at altitude A to construct an altitude A map. When you go to altitude B, SAVE altitude A map and refine it at altitude B. Now you have an altitude A map and an altitude B map. Use either as needed. Leave AT on if you want. set trims to +/-15. That won't make enough dif to fuk up your hard work but it will allow AT to adjust for your cruising zone.

LOL tuning AFR doesn't make enough dif to the average rider. It's for racing. High competition. OR if the bike runs poorly. BAD mapping replaced by OK~GOOD mapping will be a noticeable improvement.

* Last updated by: Rook on 2/18/2018 @ 1:17 PM *

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TUNING RUNS!
Man I am so looking forward to getting these done completely. Rook, surely you noticed a trend anyway in your Romans map? The diff afrs anyway. I wouldnt think they could range too wide... although my bike sure runs real good using a map primarily built on 13.1. So the prime # being 13.7 I suppose that would be a pretty significant range. So to speak.

* Last updated by: ironheadmike on 2/18/2018 @ 7:31 PM *

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As much as I dare tell you Mike (or Romans might put out a hit on me) is that the cells in the lower end are all about the optimum all around safe AFR for the gen1. Midrange is lean, sometimes a bit leaner than what I understand to be the safe zone. As the TPs progress to 100% in the midrange, they become richer. Also, as the rpm progresses higher than midrange, the AFRs get richer. I cannot see above 7000 rpm in the pic I'm looking at (no, I can't post it) but if the trend continues, the top end must get richer. No, the spread of AFRs is not that much. About a .6 spread from leanest I can see in my pic to richest. So lean in the midrange is probably what makes the bike a bit more peppy where you can feel it and it's not so high in the revs that it could invite a problem. The high revs/high TPs are rich(ish). Like i said, just a .6 spread. As mentioned before, I don't think you'll notice a huge change between 13.1 and 13.7. Without having much knowledge of the effects of AFR on the gen2, I would suggest you stick with 13.1 in the upper revs. Try 13.7 at midrange and larger TPs. I wouldn't go leaner. You might not notice anything wrong until it's too late. Look at some other maps to check out the AFR in the top end for the Gen2.

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Thanks man! That is precisely what I had hoped and guessed actually.
The .6 spread anyway. Yes the application of the spread makes perfect sense. So does the at200 not keeping up in real time hence the need for tuning runs and set maps for diff conditions. I see a POD-300 in my future!
The afr readout you mentioned; is this on the POD or do you have a trick little monitor setup somewhere in the Rook Racing Uber clean dash panel?

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I see a POD-300 in my future!

Those are handy little devices. Quite adequate to replace all the most important gauges you would want and it can be taken on and off the bike as easy as pulling the wire out. Velcro works great. It doesn't do everything the Control Center software does but some of the more frequently used functions can be done by the POD-300. The map storage is nice too if you need to switch maps but don't forget, you can store two maps in the PC5 and that might cover you. I have the LCD-200 and I like it. Worth it just for the gauges.

The afr readout you mentioned; is this on the POD or do you have a trick little monitor setup somewhere in the Rook Racing Uber clean dash panel?

I have monitored my AFR on my LCD but I do have a gauge for that which I will install someday. Not really necessary with the LCD but I like gauges.

OH--you can data log with the POD or LCD, too. That's for when you get into the real minutia of tuning. Mighty interesting to see a record of what your engine did every tenth of a second in a tuning run.

The POD or LCD work well for after tuning is done but to actually tune, you will need a small laptop velcroed to the tank cover. I do not think the POD is even capable of that. Sure would be nice but a laptop is ok. It's not for ever.

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Soooo, I dont get the wideband 2. It is the same o2 sensor that comes with the at200 but it has a device mgr that comes with it and you can buy an afr gauge with it? What am I missing here? If purchased as an afterthought you then would have 2 o2 sensors installed? Huh? Help...
On a non-tuning note, my Carro's are not quite here yet, waiting on the anodizer. The forks on the other hand are being upgraded as we speak by Traxxion Dynamics and I am pretty stoked to give them some quality damping time asap!!! Whoooo Hoooooo

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Soooo, I dont get the wideband 2. It is the same o2 sensor that comes with the at200 but it has a device mgr that comes with it and you can buy an afr gauge with it? What am I missing here? If purchased as an afterthought you then would have 2 o2 sensors installed? Huh? Help...

I never owned a WB2. DJ is the first place to go for info on DJ products. I tell what I know but I don't know everything. Here's my guess:

Device mgr...probably a box to log data? maybe?? The Glow-Shift AFR gauge I bought has a Bosch sensor I believe is the same as the one I got with my AT. It does have extra insulation on the cable but the sensor, I believe is the same. Wires look the same. Thread I think is the same. Anyway, the Glow-Shift AFR gauge has a box that interfaces between the sensor harness and the wire to the gauge. I think it turns the digital signal to analog but also it can log data. The Device Mgr might be similar.

You can buy the AFR gauge if you want but if you're buying a POD-300, that will have an AFR gauge and a lot more compact and easy to remove plus you can choose analog display or digital or both. A real AFR gauge will be bigger and easier to read but it is more for permanent use on the bike. ...which is why I got one and because I think gauges are cool as hell.

I do not think there would be two O2 sensors. The one O2 sensor would go to the device manager and that would go to the gauge and that would go to the WB2 module and that would go to the PC5...or the devive manager would have two ports, one for the gauge and one for the WB2 module. Something like that.

Call DJ. If you don't get good info email Chris Kelly. He knows everything. I will pm you his email if necessary.

On a non-tuning note, my Carro's are not quite here yet, waiting on the anodizer.

It will be worth the wait. I promise!

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Autotune is a little simpler but for a few extra bucks, I'd go with WB2. WB2 is not that much more versatile. I would not upgrade just for the few extra features but if you ever get deep, deep into tuning, you might use them. Also you can log a user defined channel from WB2 and you can't with AT.

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So I did my first couple neutral tuning runs today. Using the Rook Racing, Romans inspired tuning tutorial as a guide. Went well. I am going with a 13.5 afr as this was what will be a cool air map later as these start to pile up. Yes the POD 300 is on the way. One curious thing was going on through todays exercise; the Autotune on light on the software display was not coming on at all. After clearing the trims and doing a run, new trims were generated, leading me to believe it was working anyway. I of course verified that the trims were new and different, and they were. Accepted the trims and did it again, same no light, but different, lesser trims were generated.
Go figure. The beast does seem to like this afr range better than the richer 13.1-13.2 type map that was deleted.
The trims from first run; (got a little quick on the throttle getting to 7k)

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Yes the POD 300 is on the way.

the Autotune on light on the software display was not coming on at all.

I was alarmed by the same thing but with a little experience I figured out this was due to AutoTune's default startup delay. It does not come of for 20 or thirty seconds after startup. This is so that it cannot fight with the ECU's cold engine fueling adjustments. You can adjust the startup delay to whatever you want or eliminate it (but I don't recommend unless you need to tune for cold starts--there is a startup fuel function). I usually set the AT delay for 2 minutes now. Is it possible that your delay is set for a long time?? Probably not or it is doubtful that by luck, AT came on just as you started both runs. AutoTune can also be set to come on only when a chose engine temp is reached. The Autotune Running indicator must have been on when you did your runs. perhaps you were preoccupied with cell tracer, TPS and rpm at that time.

Also, it is possible AutoTune is not coming on while the bike is idling because you have zeroed out your 0% TP column. That is generally a good practice and I now have mine set up this way. I do not think AT is ON in a target AFR cell with a value of 0 though.

The only other thing would be AutoTune being shut off completely. Obviously that is not it if you got trims.

After clearing the trims and doing a run, new trims were generated, leading me to believe it was working anyway. I of course verified that the trims were new and different, and they were. Accepted the trims and did it again, same no light, but different, lesser trims were generated.

Sounds like what I would expect. Are you sure the indicator stayed off as you rolled on the throttle? I don't see how you would get trims if the AutoTune Running indicator was not on.

Did you calibrate your TPS? If the calibration was off, AutoTune might read the smaller TPs as somewhat greater than they actually are and maybe the indicator would not come on even though you were at 1 or 2% TP. You would still get trims in the 2% column in this situation because AT would be reading true 4% throttle as 3 or 2%. Your true 5% adjustment would be applied to your 2% column...and the bike would probably still run pretty good if your TP calibration was only off by one column.

There's my ideas. As always, call DJ. They probably can tell you right away what is going on if what I told you doesn't solve the mystery.

Neutral tuning in the garage is a great controlled environment to do initial tuning runs for the cruising range but you have to be really careful when the weather warms up. Definitely do have a fan in front and even better with fairings off. The bike gets hot sitting on the stand and it won't cool off much just cutting the throttle. A fan simulates a little air flow through the radiator. I only do it on the roadside now with fairings on and I get moving right away at a decent pace and lower rpm to cool that motor down. Also, I don't take 60 seconds for one Neutral run anymore. maybe 20~30 seconds and ride then repeat until I'm getting all 1s and 0s. This is a great way to learn the software and how Autotune works so it becomes second nature. Accepting those trims can befuddle you though. It's easy to accept trims, and send the trims table which was zeroed out after accepting. This of course does not change the mapping in the PC5 at all. The dangerous run you just did is wasted. It took me several runs to figure out I was not changing my map.

Good to talk about this stuff again.

* Last updated by: Rook on 2/24/2018 @ 7:04 PM *

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Yessir I had the time delay cleared for the default 20 sec delay. The temp field set for 100 degrees and the bike was warm before start of process. Never saw the light for any of it. Will cal DJ to see what light they can shed on this missing light. I did not however calibrate the TP. Will delve into that perhaps tomorrow. Swear I read today, maybe on the DJ pdf that TP calbrate process involved cranking the throttle all the way to 100% while running!
Does that sound correct to you? I recall having a "not doing that" moment and moving on. There is always room for I read it wrong. Now I have been studying the afr maps from DJ for the limited diff maps they provide; maybe 8?
I have noticed some trends. DJ is all about that 13.2- 13.1. They will fill a handfull of cells through the mid range with 13.5- 13.7 but near the WOT it is always richer in every config. All of these maps are using stock air filters and just a handful of diff slip ons and full systems. The Brocks maps I recieved via e-mail have mysteriously disappeared. Their whole process is so security crazy that I will have to send them fingerprints, a dna sample and swear on a stack of bibles to get them to re-send I'm sure. I am very much wanting to see their afr maps.

* Last updated by: ironheadmike on 2/24/2018 @ 8:41 PM *

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Swear I read today, maybe on the DJ pdf that TP calbrate process involved cranking the throttle all the way to 100% while running!

Yep. It's in my tutorial. Warm the bike up well. The TPS voltage is constantly fluctuating a few one-hundreths of a volt with the engine on. you press a button to capture it at idle. There's your lowest TPS voltage. Might want to try a couple times to get an idea of the absolute lowest. you accept that. Then you grab the throttle and pull it to the stop real fast and close it back up real fast. It won't rev up past 6000 or so if you do it fast. The highest voltage will capture. Then you will want to repeat that a couple times to make sure you capture the absolute highest. There's your voltage range and the PC5 now will use that to reference 0 through 100% throttle. WHen you get your POD, there is a TP gauge that will indicate according to the voltages you accepted. I'm sure there is a TP gauge in the Control Center software too. My LCD TP gauge goes from 0 to 98% but +/-2% is supposed to be close enough. I thought the finer TPs would be more important so I was more careful with calibrating the 0% voltage. The 100% is tough to catch unless you want to rev the hell out of the engine. You might be able to manually input values for the TPS calibration and that way, you could narrow the 100% down.

Your PC5 probably has a preset TPS voltage range for the ZX-14R but every sensor has variation. I wouldn't bother with calibrating it until the weather warms up. You can check your TP voltage riding in cooler weather to see where it's at right now but it may read a little different when the air warms up. I notice my idle speed sensor gets tricked by cold weather, probably by the cold making stuff contract. The bike idles faster when it's cold out even after the engine warms up. It seems to go back to normal set idle after it gets really warm.

I recall having a "not doing that" moment and moving on.

Have a look at what your PC5 is showing for 0% throttle. If it's 0-2%, I'm sure you're ok for now. You might be able to calibrate 100% with just the key on and hot engine not running. I'd try it with engine running first to compare results. If they are showing about the same voltage, you probably would have a lot more accurate results capturing with the engine off and holding the throttle open longer. I don't think the TPS will make as high of voltage without engine running though....but I can't understand why not. It's not supposed to work that way.

DJ is all about that 13.2- 13.1. They will fill a handfull of cells through the mid range with 13.5- 13.7 but near the WOT it is always richer in every config.

Sounds a little familiar. It just depends how far you want to push the leanness. I'm sure DJ is on the careful side.

Brocks must need to be loaded into a PC5 to stay. Take screen shots of them and you can always manually edit a zero map into Brocks. That won't disappear but it will be a little labor intensive to make it. Copy/paste should work unless Brock already closed that loophole! Then refer to the screen shots.

All of these maps are using stock air filters and just a handful of diff slip ons and full systems.

Stock or race air filter will not make a difference in AFR, I have been told. It's 2 hp at best doing peak rpm. That's 1/100 of the power of your bike. I don't know if the AFR could ever stay stable enough for reasons beyond our control let alone be stable enough to perfectly tune for a race filter. If you're after every little bit, I guess a race filter is one of the steps. I don't use mine much. I pop it in for a couple weeks every few years.

So now you're getting an idea of the level of geektitude you can rise to in the realm of tuning. This is just the ordinary stuff available to the average Joe Schmo at (relatively) low cost. I'm pretty sure it will always be good enough for me. There's enough complexity to this without going to real high end stuff. It gets used by pros so I figure I can use it.

* Last updated by: Rook on 2/24/2018 @ 9:51 PM *

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ROOKAGE!!
With the POD300 arrival imminent, I am puzzling over a few things; so this data logging feature allows me to hit record as, lets say I hit a marked throttle position (visual reference on grip- I do mean hit the button) and attempt to roll the throttle up tuning run style then stop recording. Go back and review said intervals, guiding an eager tuner to tweak target afr cells that show large trims etc...? Am I hitting this with some clarity?
Also- I did talk to DJ today. Was left kind of meh about the whole exchange. Said tech guy told me the light would only come on if AT was sending trims. Seemed not right as I had imagined it's only job sampling 10x a sec and the results flying up the wires for the pcv to decide whether or not trims took place. I was looking that screen over pretty good as the whole run was happening, i'd swear it never came on. Now the green light on the AT unit itself was on to be sure and as I stated new trims were logged so I do think it is working. I also tried to pick his brain about the pockets of lean afrs in the mids and the always rich finish near WOT and all he would recite is they do all their testing on a dyno and set afrs for the most power through every cell. Hmpf. Not sure what I was expecting, but talking with dead pan Donny was kind of a drag.

* Last updated by: ironheadmike on 2/26/2018 @ 7:56 PM *

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YO--IRONHEAD!!

so this data logging feature allows me to hit record as, lets say I hit a marked throttle position (visual reference on grip- I do mean hit the button) and attempt to roll the throttle up tuning run style then stop recording. Go back and review said intervals, guiding an eager tuner to tweak target afr cells that show large trims etc...? Am I hitting this with some clarity?

You are envisioning it almost exactly as it will be.

You won't need to guess at your TP, you will be able to see it on your POD. That doesn't mean you can hit it precisely without some practice but you can see how close you came.

As best as you can, snap the throttle to the desired TP. Rolling up slow, you will cross cells for the lower TPs that you will probably have tuned already. No problem, you will have those target AFR cells zeroed out (note comment in paragraph TP below on zeroing out AFR cells).

0:16 see middle RH digital display on my LCD? Starts at 0, goes right to 98. I snap to WOT but as mentioned before, my TPS is not calibrated perfectly. +/-2% is close enough.

100% throttle is no problem. Hitting 80% is not so easy but if you are very close, hold it and do the run. Autotune will still make calculations automatically to and they you will get trims of reasonable value for the TP column you are tuning. If you are way off (90& or say you hit and stopped at 75%) scrap the run immediately and just start over. Autotune will overwrite any trims that might have gotten into your column from the faulty start.

TP You only tune one column at a time. You zero out target AFR in all other columns. Autotune can't give trims for anything that is too far away from your chosen column but if you are at least in one of the adjacent columns, through the wonder of electronics and mathematics, it will give you compromise trims. Not as good as "on the money trims but they will bring you closer to your AFR.

You will learn how to come within 5% of your larger TPs. The small ones are easier to hit on the money. I've considered making an adjustable throttle stop for this exact purpose.

The process is as follows:

Roll off to 0%

Activate datalogging feature in the POD while engine is winding down to desired start rpm.

Engine at desired start rpm, Snap to desired TP. NOT MORE! Less, OK just roll up a few notches, you missed the first thousand rpm of your tuning window but you still have all the rest you can hit. A little more---well as long as you did not go beyond the adjacent column, you can still use that if you want. I probably would. You could spend 30 minutes trying to hit the exact TP and by that time a cop might come by. Just don't roll off and accept those trims. Romans says, 'roll off, NO-NO.' You could roll off and on to get to your desired TP but when you go to your trims table, be sure you manually zero out the first 7 or 8 cells after you finished screwing with the throttle. Those trims will probably be trash. If you ask DJ they will tell you that is BS--they say it works everywhere. Might work for some bikes but I'm pretty sure it is not going to work for the 14. Not a hundred percent of the time. I'm trusting Romans on this but I have also looked at my trims after "just ridin the bike" and they looked fucked up as all hell.

OK you're at your desired TP. Hold it. Just hold it right there with your thumb against the control pod. You will see the TP% gauge fluctuate a bit. No problem ---DO NOT roll off to try to compensate! You got it, just hold it!!! Hold it as long as you dare. It takes a helluva long time to max out at 20% TP. You will need 4 miles to really hit the top cells. This is where I was not able to tune every bit of my map. Practically speaking, you can't do it on the road. You'll end up in jail or you will die somewhere. But not to big a deal.. If you can't do it tuning, damned sure you will never be in that zone sport riding. Who the hell sport rides at 20% throttle to 9000 rpm??? You might hit those cells decelerating or holding an rpm steady but that has zip to do with power. No real need to tune except if you have some backfiring or something like that at those rpms. I'd love to clean the whole table up perfectly but it would take a LSR course and NFWay am I going to be bothering about 20% TP if I just spent $1000+ to do an LSR event. That's for when I get rich some day and do LSR every weekend.

When you had all you can stomach, let go of the throttle. Let it spring back or close it very fast like it sprang back on it's own. I think you could pull the clutch and let off the throttle for this but I have yet to try that technique. Sounds safer for real high speed. I got a scary bounce one time at about 180 and I don't want that shit to happen again. coast to a stop and leave the throttle closed. DO NOT open the throttle to the TP you just tuned or you will screw your valuable trims you just made.

STOP. Click GET MAP. Map from PC5 loads and opens on your laptop.
Click the Trims icon in the table manager.
Click Get Table in the tool panel. Have one last look at the trims.
Click the Fuel icon in the table manager.
In the menu bar, go to Map Tools > Auto Tune Tables > Accept All Trims.
Click Yes in the confirmation box that comes up.
All done with that run. Do another.

If you datalogged the run, you can go back and look at every single sample that was taken at every rpm you hit. You may see some samples that read rich or lean. Autotune suggests at rim for every 250 rpm but whe you get to the point of datalogging you can see in more minute detail what the AFR is every tenth of a second. You can do some manual editing to clean up what even Autotune detects but may be happening o fast for it to really do anything about. This is advanced. It is not complicated, I just have not gotten to that point yet. Basically you add or subtract fuel and see how it worked to correct what AT was too slow to get perfect. I would not worry about it too much. I see some lean spots way up top in the few datalogs I have done. I would be concerned much more if I was running nitrous.

the pod will log this, you cannot adjust with the POD. YOu still need to do that on a laptop.

Also- I did talk to DJ today. Was left kind of meh about the whole exchange. Said tech guy told me the light would only come on if AT was sending trims.

The only time it should ever not send trims when it is activated is when your AFR is reading exactly what you set your target AFR cells for. In my experience, this about .00003% of the time. AFR is never stable. If it stays within .1 AFR of what you have programmed, that is good for AT's sample rate. I can't see it not sensing the need to adjust fairly constantly. There must be some setting that you have at a less precise value. I'm at a loss as to what that would be but as you go through the Control Center software, I believe you will find it. WHy else would your AT not be adjusting all the time? Or is it??? and the damn light doesn't come on jeez that would bug me!!

Try zeroing out all target AFR columns except for the 2% column. Make sure you hit SEND TABLE after you zero everything. Then click GET MAP to check to be sure the new AFR table is in the PC5. Do a run at 2% to 5% TP, cut it after you get into the 5% column a ways. DId you get trims---for only the 2% column? Did the light come on? Something is weird here but we'll get to the bottom of it. Just remember, you are just starting to learn this and it could very well be a simple error you are making. You will learn a lot. I'm no expert either but I know that light should be coming on if you are getting trims in the cells you have a target AFR for. Hit GET MAP. Open TRIMS. What is there? Just trims for the 2% column? That's what you should see.

After you have a summer of experience, you will be ready for Chris Kelly at DJ. I would not bother to talk to him at great length until you have a firm grip on this. You will discover a lot of things on your own and be able to carry a good convo----not that this isn't a good convo. I'm diggging it. Ijust can;t understand that lack of the AutoTune light. I wish my bike was running. I'd do a full video demo. Maybe you are skipping some step?

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If you watch the whole video, the playback on the LCD is pretty much what AutoTune used to program your trims table, I believe. If you use DJ display file manager and a spreadsheets program, you will see in complete detail every single sample. AFR, RPM, TP, and a whole bunch of other channels your bike has sensors for. Fuel duty...anything you have a user defined channel and sensor set up for...I have tutorials on all this crap. off to bed with me. I gotta work in the AM.

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I'm loosing sleep over this AutoTune light , mike.

Your firmware should be updated if these are new modules. you could check on updates. That's all I'm coming up with.

Devices are synced?

* Last updated by: Rook on 2/26/2018 @ 11:36 PM *

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ROOK to ZX14-
So the large left read is your real time AFR, bottom rt is rpm? This run was snapping throttle from zero to WOT in top gear? Seemed like some 12's and even some 11's were going down...did all that show in the cells? 10x a sec would be more data than one cell would hold. Wondering what # gets logged and the algorithmic logic used to decide.
Was that your first time mapping that range? Have you done that same rum multiple times now with very small trims now the rule? I now have the Brocks maps, will crack them tonight. Very eager to see how similar to DJ these are. One dyno cant possibly be that different from another elevation aside that is. Now Brocks is in Ohio I believe and DJ? Probably Cali? Lots of chances for elevation change in California...
Yes, firmware update seems prudent. Will see about that asap as well.

* Last updated by: ironheadmike on 2/27/2018 @ 5:09 PM *

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So the large left read is your real time AFR, bottom rt is rpm?

Yes. There is also a bar graph AFR gauge across the top.

This run was snapping throttle from zero to WOT in top gear?

Yup. I could not do that without bogging before tuning the bottom end.

Seemed like some 12's and even some 11's were going down...

Seeing the AFR range between 12 and 13 would not be unusual even after tuned. It changes from one day to the next based on weather. Seeing 11 to 13 would be unusual. This was one of the first top end tuning runs.

I have also noticed that AutoTune seems to tune a couple tenths richer than the set target AFR. If I'm correct, that would not be surprising if DJ designed it to tune a bit on the rich side as a little extra safety margin against running lean.

did all that show in the cells?

It probably did cause a large trim in the cell it happened in if it was a long enough lean/rich spot. If it was a tenth of a second, maybe not. I haven't gotten that perfect about it yet.

10x a sec would be more data than one cell would hold. Wondering what # gets logged and the algorithmic logic used to decide.

NO, not at all. A) 1 full second is a very long time in terms of rpm increase. You don't stay in one cell for one full second anywhere in the map, least of all at WOT. The rpm zips up very quickly. One cell is only 250 rpm. Thats gone in a wink of an eye. B) If and when autotune does manage to get 3 samples in one cell (possibly that could happen at very low rpm and 2% throttle), it will give the end result of the three.

3 + -1 + 2 = 4
4 is your trim for that cell where three samples were taken. multiple trims in one cell is not something to avoid. If you can get that much info, you will get your map perfect a lot quicker. That is why 6th gear is best for tuning and taller sprocket gearing would also be better. Tuning uphill is also better. Anything that slows the acceleration down is good. Even so, I had good results with my 45T rear sprocket and I also found 1st gear and second and third gear valuable for tuning the very bottom end before hitting it in 6th gear. The bike did not like 50% throttle at 2000 rpm in 6th gear so tuning in a lower gear first helped immensely. Much less severe bogging and it eventually was cleaned up. That is probably the most amazing thing about the self tune was how much power the bike now has at low rpm in 6th gear. I would nevr have even thought about yanking the throttle wide open in 6th gear under 3000 rpm.

Was that your first time mapping that range? Have you done that same rum multiple times now with very small trims now the rule?

Maybe the second or third run. Yes, there were all 1s and zeros and possibly a 2 or two in the 100% column. I have not mapped the 9000 to 11000 rpm range thoroughly. I've done my 180 mph run which brought me to 10.5k rpm just a single time. I'd need to do that a couple more times hopefully hitting 11,000 rpm but thats awfully risky to do on the road. The bike isn't accelerating too fast at that speed. I don't like to stay going that fast for too long a time or distance on the road.

One dyno cant possibly be that different from another elevation aside that is. Now Brocks is in Ohio I believe and DJ? Probably Cali? Lots of chances for elevation change in California...

IDK...I hear one dyno can be very different from another and that is why dyno numbers are not a real good indication of the bike's exact power. They are very good to indicate the effects of tuning though. Kind of like ignore the numbers and focus on how much they went up or down instead.

I'm sure all tuners would prefer to tune close to sea level for a basic map. California has plenty of that. Ohio must also.

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