Hi everyone,

I'm in Brisbane, Australia. For the non-oz folk it's about the mid point of the east coast, about 500 miles north of Sydney. I'm 43, married with kids (lots of them!)

The ZX14 is replacing my 98 R1 that has been my daily commute for the last 10 years, complete with Givi top box). Before that I rode a 88 Yamaha XJ900F for 10 years. before that the bikes were many and varied, but the only one that really got me going was the old 81 GPZ1100 (with the big shoe box gauges). The GPZ was awesome, 1170 MTC kit, ZX1100 head cams and carbs. It had the grunt of a tractor, smooth refinement of the ZX1100 and still went fast and handled well (for the era).

I've recently bought the 08 zx14 (midnight watchamacallit). It's still bog stock. I love the thing but I just need to figure out how to transform the low rpm into a tyre shredding beast like the old gpz without losing the finer qualities of the bike...

Russty

Welcome, Russty!

We're just getting started here (15 days in, actually), but I think you'll find some help re: transforming to tyre shredding.

Mine is an 07 and removing the flies did it for me, but I'm not sure that's necessary with the 08... -bg

Hi bg,

How does yours behave when you are NOT blasting? how does the engine behave at idle and just off idle with small throttle use? At the moment I need to use a lot more RPM to make modest standing starts in traffic than I need on my 98 R1. It is easier to ride low rpm/low throttle than the ZX14. I'm convinced (or just want to believe) that the ZX14 has been held back by the factory so it is safe and docile in traffic so as to cover their collective legal butts.

All of the commentary I find on ZX14 mods seems to focus on WOT performance, peak power, dyno charts etc. Where I am more interested in the buttometer readings around town in traffic. I recently toyed with a GSX1400 for a couple of years, (Yoshi+PCIII+home made tre) and while it went like a cut snake, it lost so much of the refinement that comes with a new Japanese bike. The idle became irregular, it popped on decel, on/off transition was slightly rough and on goes my list of gripes. But in traffic, with only very mild throttle, it had no peer and felt like it had a small v8 below. Pity about the riding position, frame flex etc.

I tend to use a lot of clutch at low speed or on/off throttle transitions. I learned this from the various big bore machines I've ridden over the years, so I can handle the ZX unrestricted around town and I'm confident that all of the high RPM, WOT characteristics of the ZX14 will improve with the common mods (pipes, flies, PCIII etc). But no one seems to talk about the low rpm, low throttle characteristics and therefore this is the area of greatest concern to me. I commute in 20-35mph traffic most of the time and, although sluggish just off-idle, the ZX14 is a treat to ride in traffic, really smooth, well sorted throttle response. It's a bit hot in summer, but that's another thread.

I just want to know how to significantly lift the low rpm (idle-3000rpm) torque curve without compromising that lovely finesse that the japanese engineers are so good at delivering...

So enough ranting from me and back to the original question, what's your impressions of the engines manners at low rpm, small throttle?

Thanks
Russty

Russty:

I've been quite happy with it at low rpm. After I removed the flies, I had to learn to be a little more delicate with the throttle at low rpms, but it didn't take any time at all to get used to.

You probably spend more time that I do at 20-35 mph, though. I don't ride around town much -- just enough to get out of town mostly. So virtually all the riding I do is over 35 mph.

Hopefully, some folks will chime in to help with your question. If you get a response from Hub, I'd encourage you to puzzle through it. His messages can be difficult to understand sometimes, but he is VERY sharp on this stuff. -bg

* Last updated by: bgordon on 2/18/2009 @ 8:18 AM *

Thanks bg,

I've been reading extensively and mostly from the old site (RIP) and usually the most insightful info was from Hub. There's a sharp wit there. I thought I had a wicked sense'o'umour. I stand in awe (and puzzlement) of his wit. Some of his posts completely escape me even after various attempts.

Still this place looks like fun. Thanks for getting it up and running.

Russty

* Last updated by: bgordon on 2/18/2009 @ 8:19 AM *

Welcome russty... I'm like you. It's all about lightning lower end movements from the car fender; squirting kind of seat of the pants tune for that getaway. Is that what you are looking for? I do not touch the bike but leave it stock. It will tune crisp and that is all she wrote factory wise. Then what they detuned is you retune or massage it is more like it.

So, it is sorta like, you first need to unzip the top end and bleed it down to the bottom end and there is your grunt being bog-less ala first year = Sub-Less. First year flies are gone came the bottom but going for the top, {end first?}. You could start at the bottom first. Depends on the air pump and how you want to tune it.

Call it, "Stuck on a Stocker" until the factory comes out with the next leap in speed. This is all she wrote. Like, floored am I with that engineering. You know how I don't wanna say. But lets say Kawi leads the field in plumbing. The air box deal, the PAIR deal is can you believe sending any kind of plumbing for morning start, the parts are way too many = O-rings and that kind of design Kawi has not!

Right off, you have a nice piece to work with. Clean and easy to work on. zMatch a part and you see what I mean is try a throttle body and count the o-rings kind of part for part. What is light-duty and ship-shape-ready is like the swap of the throttle bodies is call it within minutes = No plumbing [forget the rebuilding that choke system is the plumbing is over-engineered]. I'm all stock and this bike jumps off the slightest bump at low end grunt ~ Flies out that is w/hack. I have the bike set in a fish bowl she is bone stock now with a dash and not ocean going say. Say to battle other ships at sea, I would have to uptune the detune I am at now.

Keep reading/watching vid is just fundamentals is you are on your own grunt choice. I am showing you a whole bunch of combo's of tuning the generic computer bike is throw it in front of me is call the ball. I'm kidding. And no, I am not a tuner, like degree in the cams is that kind of tuner [I race those instead] is just a racer looking for ride. I do your average tuneup is more what I know. Sit on your bike and my asschecks your tune, gets off and goes... "Year clustizflubber took a turn for the worst (under my breath is if you lubed it like the manual said); being it was slapping the ground is your drive chain sorta slapped the shit out of some other parts too, so you'll need to speak with the service writer; your tooth hangs up every 3 wheel spins and I see why you have that band-aid on your chin is mine bleeding?"

* Last updated by: Hub on 2/18/2009 @ 8:12 AM *

I'm focusing on low down ride ability cors this where I think most do not pay enough attention. most enthusiasts seem to give exclusive attention to peak power, 1/4 mile times and top speed. These are good things, but I can use these about 2% of my riding time. Now don't get me wrong, I bought this bike because it has an insane engine, but it the pursuit of max power results in compromising that smooth throttle, slick gear change and popless deceleration then I'll be whining 98% of the time. I have faith that there is already a body of knowledge about how to make these things go hard with max throttle. There are many theories and discussions around by amateurs like me. I don't want to turn this bike into an expensive science experiment or education program.

I think I said b4 that my old R1 (carbs) has a cleaner and quicker standing start in civilised riding. By this I mean, red light changes to green, dial 1500-2000 rpm, feed a little clutch and it immediately lunges away from the line. more throttle and clutch (maintaining 2000rpm) until clutch grabs and then more throttle. I recently changed mechanic with the R1 and when they reassembled things after a major service, the engine was real soppy from a standing start (much like my '08 14) and I could no longer ride up my steep driveway without 3000rpm and a lot of clutch slipping. Normally I can pull up the drive in 1st gear, 1500rpm, no clutch slip and it lunges up the drive with a pleasing eagerness. After much stuffing around, I asked to have the ignition advanced. (There is a little play in the mounting of the ignition plate on the end of the crank) Well this immediately fixed the problem. Prior to this we were playing with the needles, idle mixtures, exup advance, plugs, etc. The ignition timing fixed it right up. Consequently, the talk of tre and retarded timing resonates with me.

My 14 needs a good twist of the throttle and slipping of the clutch to get a snappy takeoff. Interestingly, I accidently took off in 2nd recently and it felt like a much stronger engine. I had a similar experience with an 03 GSX1400 where my mechanic did something with the wiring around the gear signal that I think simulated the tre and it really transformed the grunt of this bike, So I wonder what a simple fiddle with the ignition timing might achieve, maybe that's all that is required? Based on these experiences and thinking, I've fitted a PCIII and I'm waiting for the ignition module to arrive so that with the multi function hub I can fiddle with the ignition timing in 1st gear without altering any other gear, keep the gear indicator and factory fuel maps for each gear rather than make the bike operate in safe mode.

One of the reasons I like the snappy start off idle is that I can get away quickly (relative to the other traffic) without making too much noise and attracting attention from mr plod! This is of course in the context of 0-20mph with minimum fuss, hesitation, effort and noise. The noise requirement is amplified when we get into discussions of after market exhausts. I contemplate exhausts more for reasons of weight and heat reduction than pure performance gains. I also like the quiet of the stock system and will soon be fitting the centre stand. (different thread)

You made the point that it is better to start tuning at the top end and work my way down. Well I finally took the bike out into the hills recently and opened it up. I must confess to expecting a little more, I was in 2nd gear and opened the throttle and was expecting a wheel standing tyre shredding beast. Didn't happen. It was very civilised, respectably quick but I wondered if there was more to this bike than we've been allowed to experience. This is a long way of saying that I do want more top end and will certainly seek that, but back when I was tinkering with bikes, (80s) it was generally accepted that tuning an engine for top end meant losing out down low and vice-versa. Back to the 14, of all of the options available for gaining top end power, what will also improve the low down with compromising that smooth flawless operation off idle?

BTW I loved your video of the flies in operation. I wonder if this is a sophisticated mechanism to keep the CV carb feel with the control of FI? watching the flies open with rpm makes me think these are an electronic replacement of the vacuum lifted slide of the CV carb? I wonder if removing the flies is a little like swapping the CV carbs for a set of mikuni flat slides? Is this comparison sensible to you?

hi and welcome in russty