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Thread: Gas Recommendation

Created on: 07/27/20 05:56 AM

Replies: 14

skewedTotheLeft


skewedTotheLeft's Gravatar

Location: Cape Coral, FL

Joined: 12/07/14

Posts: 298

Gas Recommendation
07/27/20 5:56 AM

Hi guys/girls,
Murphy USA has recently started selling 92 octane non-ethanol gas in my area. This is the highest non-ethanol pump gas available within a 100 mile radius of where I live. Do you think this would be Okay with a stock engine using the RCC Stage 1 turbo kit (4 lbs of boost) on a 2013 ZX-14R? Or should I just use 93 octane ethanol based gas?

Thanks in advance.



2013 ZX-14R full exhaust, PCV and flash
2016 FZ-07 M4 slipons and PCV
1971 Honda SL100

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Rook


Rook's Gravatar

Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 19330

RE: Gas Recommendation
07/27/20 9:34 PM

I'm curious what the answer to this question is, if there is a definitive answer.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, Super Sprox 17t output sprocket, AFM 45t rear sprocket, EK zzz 530 chain, Gilles Tooling axle adjusters, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Ignition Module, LCD-200, Speedohealer V4, Glow-Shift gauges, Illumiglow 210 mph clock faces, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Moto-D magnetic oil drain plug, MIT billet oil filler cap, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, LighTech fuel tank cap, Vortex rearsets, lightweight mudflap bracket, FP Racing preload adjusters, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Bridgeport 90° valve stems, CZ 320mm front rotors, Galfer rear wave rotor, Pazzo levers, ProBots Dzus fasteners and many other bolts replaced with aluminum or Ti, Vortex mirror blocks, CRG bar end mirrors, LSL frame sliders, axle sliders, billet bar ends, 2WheelWorkz muffler

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Fordtech58



Joined: 12/10/16

Posts: 58

RE: Gas Recommendation
07/31/20 11:18 AM

In Hawaii we only have 89 E-free and 92 with 10% ethanol which is what I'm using drag racing only. I've been to 9psi with no issues.

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HanksZX



Location: Augusta NJ

Joined: 09/15/12

Posts: 239

RE: Gas Recommendation
07/31/20 2:07 PM

Fordtech, stock compression ratio and standard thickness head gasket?



2012 ZX-14r
2000 Suzuki Bandit Intercooled Turbo, 287HP, 182 lbs tq...sold
1997 Honda Blackbird Intercooled Turbo, 255HP, 155 lbs tq...sold

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Fordtech58



Joined: 12/10/16

Posts: 58

RE: Gas Recommendation
08/01/20 10:56 AM

HanksZX: It's got stock pistons and rods. I had Scott and Richard at RCC do the stage 1 plus which included Carpenter valve springs, APE head studs and a .060 Cometic head gasket. They also did a high pressure oil relief valve, high volume oil pump gear, Muzzy billet pump plate, blow off valve option and a O2 bung in the dump pipe for my data logger. It's been a great combination and I've just started to lean on it and get a handle on my boost controller. It's a drag race only bike and our track has been shut down since February. My best to date has been 8.385 @ 165.50 on 92 pump Texaco.

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Fordtech58



Joined: 12/10/16

Posts: 58

RE: Gas Recommendation
08/01/20 11:25 AM


Here's the dyno pulls at 4-6+7.5 psi all on pump gas. The last pic is my current configuration. I see you're from NJ, I've currently got Steve Knecum in NJ building me a high boost engine which will be capable of handling 26 psi with RCC's secondary fuel system and their liquid to air intercooler It'll be capable of 440hp on C16 and 400hp on pump. The ECU was also flashed by Rick Romans on the initial build which I'd forgotten to mention. Hope this helps!

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HanksZX



Location: Augusta NJ

Joined: 09/15/12

Posts: 239

RE: Gas Recommendation
08/01/20 4:01 PM

Thanks for the info on the current set up.
I wanted to zero in on compression to compare your boost pressure on pump gas to skewedtothelefts
The difference is head gasket thickness(maybe 1 point CR) which explains how you can use more boost on the same/similar gas.
My stuff was more old school with low CR and high boost levels...sometimes resulting in soft low rpm power.
Richard started playing with higher (stock)compression and kept the boost levels down to live on pump.
I was trying to give skewed some good advice and sure don't want to see him hurt the motor.
Whats your feeling on 1 octane point making a difference at 4 lbs? I'm thinkng don't sweat it but suggested he call Richard.
Far as NJ, I've known Bob Carpenter since he raced Pro Stock bikes, sometime in the 70's.
I met Steve when he was Carps engine assy guy...many years ago
If he's doing your motor, you are in real good hands...the best!
I turn wrenches for fun and to learn.
If I wanted machine work done, I'd go to Bob.
If I wanted a turbo motor built, I'd head right over to Steve's...
What is Richards target AF ratio? IIRC, he used to tune for 12.0...
My buddy has a Knecum motor in his street Busa with a lotta work...beautiful bike, bullitproof motor!
It's got an air to water intercooler and he runs around on the street with 340HP on pump gas...:)
Good to see some interest in turbo's!!!



2012 ZX-14r
2000 Suzuki Bandit Intercooled Turbo, 287HP, 182 lbs tq...sold
1997 Honda Blackbird Intercooled Turbo, 255HP, 155 lbs tq...sold

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Fordtech58



Joined: 12/10/16

Posts: 58

RE: Gas Recommendation
08/01/20 9:23 PM

This was in an email from Richard once I started racing it. "Air/fuel for 4-6 psi is fine around 11.5-11.8:1, at the 7.5 psi I would try to run 11.0-11.3:1 Even if it dips into the 10:1 range at the 7.5 psi I would not be too concerned, just try and keep it safe".
The actual boost I show on my data logger before I started using the NLR 1000 boost controller was on average 3 psi over the spring. I questioned Scott on this and it's due to the extremely efficient header design so if skewedtothelefts not logging I'd strongly suggest the AEM 15psi gauge which although is hard/dangerous to watch it does have a memory function of peak boost. Prior to me getting a good logger I'd just aim my Go-pro at the boost and fuel pressure gauges and review the runs. I recently found an ultra light spring from Century Spring in California that made just about 4psi on the gate only which now allows me to launch softer and ramp in the boost. As it was on the original set up it would go from 2psi on the launch to almost 7psi .7 seconds into the run which usually resulted in a wheelie and a subsequent throttle chop!

I think he'd be better off with the 92 E-free as it's 100% gasoline. The 93 with 10% ethanol would create a leaner condition in my opinion. I always ran just the 89 E-free here in Hawaii on my 2007 and 2012na ZX14's

Prior to moving to Hawaii I raced a stock motor 2005 Busa on 87 pump regular with 10% ethanol and it always performed better than on 89 or 93. It went 198.9605 at Loring Maine LSR event in 2011 on 87 pump!


* Last updated by: Fordtech58 on 8/1/2020 @ 9:39 PM *

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HanksZX



Location: Augusta NJ

Joined: 09/15/12

Posts: 239

RE: Gas Recommendation
08/02/20 9:54 AM

Fordtech, I appreciate the info....let us know how the new setup works!



2012 ZX-14r
2000 Suzuki Bandit Intercooled Turbo, 287HP, 182 lbs tq...sold
1997 Honda Blackbird Intercooled Turbo, 255HP, 155 lbs tq...sold

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skewedTotheLeft


skewedTotheLeft's Gravatar

Location: Cape Coral, FL

Joined: 12/07/14

Posts: 298

RE: Gas Recommendation
08/02/20 11:12 AM

I emailed Richard Peppler from RCC Turbos and he said 92 octane non-ethanol would be better than 93 octane with 10% ethanol.


* Last updated by: skewedTotheLeft on 8/2/2020 @ 11:12 AM *



2013 ZX-14R full exhaust, PCV and flash
2016 FZ-07 M4 slipons and PCV
1971 Honda SL100

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Rook


Rook's Gravatar

Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 19330

RE: Gas Recommendation
08/02/20 5:01 PM

That was my guess. IDK if ethanol has any effect on preignition but nobody likes to put it in a bike for other reasons.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, Super Sprox 17t output sprocket, AFM 45t rear sprocket, EK zzz 530 chain, Gilles Tooling axle adjusters, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Ignition Module, LCD-200, Speedohealer V4, Glow-Shift gauges, Illumiglow 210 mph clock faces, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Moto-D magnetic oil drain plug, MIT billet oil filler cap, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, LighTech fuel tank cap, Vortex rearsets, lightweight mudflap bracket, FP Racing preload adjusters, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Bridgeport 90° valve stems, CZ 320mm front rotors, Galfer rear wave rotor, Pazzo levers, ProBots Dzus fasteners and many other bolts replaced with aluminum or Ti, Vortex mirror blocks, CRG bar end mirrors, LSL frame sliders, axle sliders, billet bar ends, 2WheelWorkz muffler

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skewedTotheLeft


skewedTotheLeft's Gravatar

Location: Cape Coral, FL

Joined: 12/07/14

Posts: 298

RE: Gas Recommendation
08/12/20 4:46 AM

Well Guys,
It's written in stone now in my humble opinion. I was amazed that the great Rickey Gadson answered a Facebook message that I sent him. Here is the message. I'm sure he gets hundreds of messages everyday:



2013 ZX-14R full exhaust, PCV and flash
2016 FZ-07 M4 slipons and PCV
1971 Honda SL100

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Rook


Rook's Gravatar

Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 19330

RE: Gas Recommendation
08/12/20 10:57 AM

That's cool! Thanks for sharing with us, skewed.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, Super Sprox 17t output sprocket, AFM 45t rear sprocket, EK zzz 530 chain, Gilles Tooling axle adjusters, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Ignition Module, LCD-200, Speedohealer V4, Glow-Shift gauges, Illumiglow 210 mph clock faces, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Moto-D magnetic oil drain plug, MIT billet oil filler cap, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, LighTech fuel tank cap, Vortex rearsets, lightweight mudflap bracket, FP Racing preload adjusters, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Bridgeport 90° valve stems, CZ 320mm front rotors, Galfer rear wave rotor, Pazzo levers, ProBots Dzus fasteners and many other bolts replaced with aluminum or Ti, Vortex mirror blocks, CRG bar end mirrors, LSL frame sliders, axle sliders, billet bar ends, 2WheelWorkz muffler

Link | Top | Bottom

Fordtech58



Joined: 12/10/16

Posts: 58

RE: Gas Recommendation
08/16/20 11:41 PM

I had the pleasure or meeting Ricky and his nephew Richard at Loring Maine LSR event in July of 2011. Monday after the event attended the Lobster Fest put on by the owner of a bike he was riding with a bunch of others that had competed. He was there with his wife and kids including Richard and his family. They were absolutely the most humble and easy people to be around and bench race with. It's me on my Busa behind him in staging but please don't hold that against me!!!

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Rook


Rook's Gravatar

Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 19330

RE: Gas Recommendation
08/18/20 9:57 PM

It's me on my Busa behind him in staging but please don't hold that against me!!!

Being behind Ricky Gadson or the busa? or both?

I love busas!



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, Super Sprox 17t output sprocket, AFM 45t rear sprocket, EK zzz 530 chain, Gilles Tooling axle adjusters, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Ignition Module, LCD-200, Speedohealer V4, Glow-Shift gauges, Illumiglow 210 mph clock faces, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Moto-D magnetic oil drain plug, MIT billet oil filler cap, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, LighTech fuel tank cap, Vortex rearsets, lightweight mudflap bracket, FP Racing preload adjusters, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Bridgeport 90° valve stems, CZ 320mm front rotors, Galfer rear wave rotor, Pazzo levers, ProBots Dzus fasteners and many other bolts replaced with aluminum or Ti, Vortex mirror blocks, CRG bar end mirrors, LSL frame sliders, axle sliders, billet bar ends, 2WheelWorkz muffler

Link | Top | Bottom


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