hooboy, looks like I will be doing a small shot for now. So what is a small shot, 25 and less?

Doing a little research on valve springs with turbo, I hear aftermarket springs like APE exert 60lbs of force. The Hayabusa has 40 lb stock springs. The Gen1 ZX-14 has stock springs that exert 28 lbs of force but that is still considered useable with most turbo applications. The Gen2 ZX-14R has even lighter springs than the Gen1 does. According to this info, the gen2 14 is the one that needs the spring upgrade the most if turbo is added. I'm going on the assumption that turbo has the same effect on valve springs as NOS. Given that, I'd probably want to upgrade springs on my '08 ZX-14 at some point just for an extra measure of safety. It might not be necessary for a 75 hp shot but it's still a lot cheaper and easier to do than some of the engine mods that get done for high levels of boost.

Would 60 lb springs eat some hp when running naturally aspirated?

* Last updated by: Rook on 5/26/2015 @ 8:28 PM *

Hey Rook,

Here is Brocks website where I found info on valve spring seat pressure.

https://www.brocksperformance.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=2126

After re-reading the post again, I goofed. It is 28 lbs.. instead of 20 lbs. Here is the exact quote

"WAS CHECKING THE SEAT PRESSURE ON THE ZX14 VALVE SPRINGS & FOUND BOTH THE INT & EX WERE ONLY 28 LBS AT THE INSTALLED HEIGHT 1.324" . THIS SEEMS MIGHTY WEAK..."

Further, this post was published 9/2011.

* Last updated by: knovikov on 5/26/2015 @ 8:11 PM *

Thanks, Nova. I went back and corrected the Gen1 OEM valve spring pressure in my last post.

Looks like Brock recommends shimming the stock springs as much as possible if stock cam profile is used. He likes the aftermarket springs for modified cams. In any case, Brock alludes to the danger of "floating valves" that comes from too weak of a spring. The post isn't even about boost so I think it's safe to assume that if Brock increases spring tension for racing, it probably is not a bad idea for any boosted bike. I'm not taking the spring upgrade as a must do but probably a good safeguard against valve train malfunction that might be more likely in racing, aggressive use or with boost.

Would 60 lb springs eat some hp when running naturally aspirated?

Brock says yes but you get most of it back from the extra strength in the springs pushing the cams back up after the lobe passes center.

As far as the date of that post, 2011 is still relevant for those of us with Gen1 bikes, unless Brock has since changed his opinion.

"Brock says yes but you get most of it back from the extra strength in the springs pushing the cams back up after the lobe passes center."

The way you have worded makes sense to me. Do you think this will impact wear on parts?

If you are going to upgrade your springs, please let us know. There are a few options out there. You can buy the springs only, or you can buy the kit with titanium spring seats, etc. I looked at some Hayabusa threads that gave me an impression that most guys just buy the springs. IDK

Bought a 1/2" round magnet in order to do a valve job. Just need to get a feeler gauge to get started.

"Brock says yes but you get most of it back from the extra strength in the springs pushing the cams back up after the lobe passes center."
The way you have worded makes sense to me. Do you think this will impact wear on parts?

I would think the extra tension in the springs would cause more wear on both sides of the cam lobes. How much additional wear, I have no idea. SOunds like you might be doubling the tension by going to 60 lb springs but that does not necessarily mean a great deal of additional wear. Brock did mention that the bike may not start quite as fast with the HD valve springs. I would think if the bike was actually having a hard time starting, that would mean the parts were rubbing together awfully hard. It's all speculation on my part. It would be more of a concern for me than you though. You use boost all the time with turbo and I would only be using the NOS occasionally. A lot of engine wear for just a tiny fraction of the engine use would be sorta wasteful for me. ...BUT I'm not practical at all when it comes to the bike.

"If you are going to upgrade your springs, please let us know. "
Absolutely. I'm reading my Dyno-Tune installation instructions right now and he does recommend stronger valve springs and clutch if you go over +40 hp. That coincides with the comments made here previously.

* Last updated by: Rook on 6/9/2015 @ 3:47 PM *

Sorry for not getting back to this thread quicker Nova. Feel free to carry on the topic of upgraded internals.

Here's what I'm wondering about, a purge system for the NOS. Sure I'd love to have one just so I could blow steam out of the side and make a loud HISSSSSSSSSSSS noise.

QUESTION #7: What is a nitrous purge system for? Do I need a purge system for a motorcycle with NOS or is it just a novelty?

Back to question #4, I definitely plan to use a progressive controller from the get-go. Any suggestions on which one? This is a dry NOS. I have been looking at this one in particular. Can get right now shipped for $311. :
Daytona NC-2

but this one is starting to catch my eye because of the 4 stage capability -- but damn that would be expensive over $600 for that setup and if I spend that much, I'm going to feel like I must have the touch screen for another $300.
NX Max 5

Any recommendations?

Will I find a big advantage to having 4 stages instead of just two? ...well actually, it looks like the Daytona can be set up to do 3 stages of nitrous control...so will 4 stages be that much better than 3?

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/28/2017 @ 9:17 PM *

Back to question #4, I definitely plan to use a progressive controller from the get-go. Any suggestions on which one? This is a dry NOS. I have been looking at this one in particular. Can get right now shipped for $311. :
Daytona NC-2

but this one is starting to catch my eye because of the 4 stage capability -- but damn that would be expensive over $600 for that setup and if I spend that much, I'm going to feel like I must have the touch screen for another $300.
NX Max 5

[b]Any recommendations?[/b]

if your out for shits and grins then a 50 shot fogging the airbox on a WOT switch i've done both when it comes to mapping , auto or fixed . i perfer fixed due to maybe the auto map not working when needed but when you fog the airbox IAT sensor will increase fuel 6%

already bought the thing. I'll be finding out how necessary it is. If nothing else, it'll be educational.

you should hang around more, 1bad.

I have two threads on his exact topic on this forum alone.

Another at 1441r.com.

http://zx1441r.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=4114&sid=0f4f384769f4166952cb8a5da604a02d

These are old questions but the info is not so abundant like it was in the old days with "do I need a PC5" or "should I use a race filter." At this point, I feel like I'm sort of walking out on a limb by myself. I've scratched together what money I could and I guess I'll learn from it.

You're right, I would have been fine just doing 6th gear WOT runs on spray. I'm not racing. Where I'm headed with this, maybe I will.

* Last updated by: Rook on 11/26/2017 @ 11:07 AM *

the old method was pill it until you kill it then back down a few pills and ur good

Pill it til you kill it?

Does that mean, turn the nitrous up until you cook something so you know how far not to go?

Does that mean, turn the nitrous up until you cook something so you know how far not to go?

you got it . what ever you start with will never be enough .

The only limitation is $$. I might have to start racing to help offset my bike needs.

I might have to start racing to help offset my bike needs.

and you think money an issue now

OK, forget racing. I'm all too familiar with jobs that cost too much.

like i said check with me first before you get any more bright ideas .

chances are i done did it

Well then you're going to have to stick around a little more than you have in the last 6 or 7 years.

You can pass along a little info between fights with hagride.

fights with hagride

hagfag is a insult to all fighting men

i lurk but don't post much because i'm stupid

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 11/28/2017 @ 7:09 PM *

nah, your not stupid. You're just easy to get into a fight with...on the internet. Like that conversation we had about aftermarket ECUs. You had a lot of great info on that. But it's also true, AutoTune does work. It's just too slow to keep a steady AFR under anything but cruising conditions. Fine for tuning though and not too expensive or hard to install. Everyone just has to keep an open mind a little bit. Admit it though, you enjoy a good fight every now and then.

nah, your not stupid. You're just easy to get into a fight with...on the internet. Like that conversation we had about aftermarket ECUs. You had a lot of great info on that. But it's also true, AutoTune does work. It's just too slow to keep a steady AFR under anything but cruising conditions. Fine for tuning though and not too expensive or hard to install. Everyone just has to keep an open mind a little bit. Admit it though, you enjoy a good fight every now and then.

and that's what i kept trying to tell yall on all 20 pages

its sucks and with all the add-ons needed why not just buy the standalone ECU to start with.

YEAH, I read ya. Forgot the price of an aftermarket ECU but the cheaper one was a huge amount of work to install with building a whole new set of harnesses. True though, a full DJ network is going to cost 1200 dollars and be not as good. + you still need a couple non DJ modules to do everything. I will go with a race ECU for my next bike.

I got an ECU Editor box for the busa. I haven't tried it yet but wish they had that for the 14. I'd have probably gone that way instead of DJ. No turning back now. I have all the DJ products on the bike. Now an Healtech ATRE and I'm done...after that progressive controller get's in.

The way i look at it, the bike is getting built the way I would have done it if I had all the money to do it at once 10 years ago. I'm not going to try to keep up with technology, I'm just staying back in 2008 when life was good.

I got an ECU Editor box for the busa. I haven't tried it yet but wish they had that for the 14. I'd have probably gone that way instead of DJ.

zx14 ecu tuner pricey but available

* Last updated by: Badzx14r on 11/30/2017 @ 7:38 PM *

I have a sneaking suspicion I'd be spending a few hundred more by the time I had everything I needed. For example, it says it comes with an O2 sensor but that's got limited value without the Woolich Autotune and I bet you have to pay more for that. Nice though. Cool he's letting you edit right to the ECU.

The busa ECU Editor was Woolich's initial idea when he started the whole flash business. Some say it's better than the current software and some say you can benefit from both. For $200, I couldn't pass it up especially since I went Bazzaz on my busa and Bazzaz doesn't make an ignition controller. ...and the SB6 is pretty scarce now. I have a lot less mods on the busa and the ECU Editor might take the place of some electronics I would otherwise need. That busa is going to have a supercharger someday I think. I hope.