...... Well after that horror story, have you tried it ?

Just another .02 here - when you get in there, flip your flies open by pressing with a screwdriver or something. Look at how thick that bar is under there that you are thinking about beating on. Maybe 3'16" thick, 5/16" wide. I'd be afraid to bend it. I've read a post or two where this has happened and it is big trouble. Try a real good hot screwdriver first.

Rook

Finally got it done...PCV and flies out, stock exhaust and went to Mach 1 in Costa Mesa for the dyno tune. All I can do is echo what I've seen a zillion times on here, this is what the bike should have been stock. Better power delivery down low, much more linear and enjoyable. Can't say I'd do any more for daily street riding and weekend touring (well, except for the Givi bags I added). My V2K is lucky to get ridden on fridays at this point...

Good job on the flies, wml. We had a thread on the old forum about what to do with extracted flies. Dog tags and wind chimes seemed to be popular choices.

Commisioner Gordon wrote:

As for renaming the Q&A forum (if you're serious), I'm not in favor of that, but will do whatever you and the other members want to do.

I agree 100%. There is only one Hub. We need the "Ask Hub" forum.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/17/2009 @ 6:21 PM *

BTW Bill, if you have a G2, I'm sure you'll be just as satisfied had you left them in. You can always come back to it just for fun. You only pick up a tiny bit more power below 3K in 1st gear and I don't think anyone can really use all the bike has there flies in. Drag racers seem to favor flies in. You thinking you might be able to bolt ahead quicker if you're riding it soft in 5th, 6th gear if you pull flies? No. They're already open in those gears any rpm.

If you leave 'em in, nobody will know except you. Kawi did a good job safing up the bike for low speed street turns (you can still get yourself in trouble there with flies in, mind you) while maintaining an excellent race launch with flies in. It's cool to know they're gone but it really isn't worth any frustration if you have trouble getting them out of a G2.

Rook

Rook so from your experience, there is no need to remove the flies in the '08-'09 G2's???

Anyone else with '08-'09, removed their flies? If so, how about explaining any differences perceived or felt in torque or power? throttle response? etc.?

I had mine out sorta speak on the '08. I will repeat the same as Rook. You have such a small difference, that if you really honk on the mains, you can feel the nose dive just a touch. With the subs, you lose that lag. Pretty weird, no?

As some people might remember from the previous board, a few months ago I had attempted to remove the flies, but after warming up the bike and trying to remove the first screw, it seemed like it wasn't going to come off and I started to strip the screw head, so I stopped. I was using a brand new Craftsman philips #2, but did a pathetic attempt that didn't come out right.

After seeing a pictorial how-to on yet another ZX14 site, where the poster uses a torch gun to heat up the screw driver, I went ahead and today (first time I have had a chance to go back to do anything on the bike was today... thanks to mandatory company shutdown due to economy)... anyhow, today I went and bought a torch head (already had a propane tank for the small picnic bar-b-que), and a new Husky Pro 8" philips #2, and went to work on the bike (engine cold.)

I heated up the screw driver tip to a point that it was almost glowing pink.... then put it on the screw that was already damaged from the previous attempt, and kept it there for a good 45 seconds. No rotation, no nothing... just kept it on there (pressing down) for 45 seconds. Then pressing down with my left hand while turning the screw driver with my right hand, the screw started to turn with no problems. Repeated this for the other 7 screws, and every single one of them came out easily. The trick was torching the tip of the screw driver hot enough (to start to glow in my case) and then patiently waiting to transfer the heat to the screw for 45 seconds before attempting to rotate (of course when rotating, keeping the screw driver aligned and maintaining a good amount of pressure on it.)

Thanks to everyone on this (and the previous) site for helping (and motivating) me to get this done (special thanks to kruz). I went for a ride and like everyone else, I am upset I waited this long to get it done.

* Last updated by: faz on 5/19/2009 @ 1:09 AM *

I want to remove the flies in my 07 but I read some where that doing so without pc3 change and dyno and exhuast change may cause me to run lean at say 3000 to 4000 rpm the problem is that is the range for normal sped limit in top gear question has anyone done this and had a problem (flies out no pc or exhuast)

If you ride your normal slow moped mode, you do not need the PC. If you ripped it on the bottom, you may lag some, but that is about it. The sub gave you a token lag so that lag is smooth as the transition acts like an old CV (constant velocity) carburetor = No lag on the cable rip.

Yes, you will feel a slight lag. Yes, the IAP (intake air pressure sensor) caught you at the TPS (throttle position sensor) read. That entry combo now, computerd the shitspeak to each other; the assfactor as well as that air is going to enter faster than the gas and now you have a slight lag where the (quicker) air going in, changed the ratio and fired air not gas/air is that lag. Sorta think like that when you feel that stumble.

Then all of a sudden, you have that instant assfactor going assfaster. Out of two bikes, with the tokens removed> Show me my Pee See? Sea, wave the eyes all over my bike with a locked open token. No PEa Said it over and over is going to whip piss the shit out of you once I find the other 14(s) on the road in the over load your pee-z.

* Last updated by: Hub on 6/20/2009 @ 7:15 AM *

Thanks hub I read some of the old posts and got some good info. Nice that my "14" brothers have done some much of the leg work for me guys pat yourselves on the back ninjaforum Rocks...

Flies out and it's like riding a whole new bike: power where it should be in the bottom end, no quick deceleration between gears and just a smoother overall response to acceleration. The actual job takes less than 20 minutes but here's my advise: DO NOT ride your throttle like you did before this mod. Make sure you go out and test ride your unleashed monster before normal riding in traffic. DO NOT come on the throttle too strongly until you get use to the torque that's there now. Nice and easy works good.

There is a reason that the secondary flies were there in the first place and once they come out you will understand why.
Other than that, it's a fantastic free mod that will put a smile on your face.

Some observations:

I didn't have any problems with the tank, I just turned it sideways and it had enough gas it it to stay seated on the frame.

Get a brand new 6"-8" #2 phillips head screwdiver and with a warmed-up bike, press the phillips head firmly in the slots making sure it is seated all the way around before attempting to gently turn the screw. I loosened up all eight in case I had a problem with one and had to tighten the whole thing all up again.

Secondly, I have a Snap-On long telescope magnet. When the screw was just about ready to come out, I laid the magnet head next to the screw, and on the final turn when it comes out, it jumps over to the magnet. The actual fly is aluminum, so with the screws were out, I used needle nose pliers to flip and catch and edge to lift it out.

Make sure that you do have some sort of magnet available before you start this job in case one of the screws fall on the primary plate below. All is not lost as long as you do not turn the throttle.

* Last updated by: jessejames4 on 7/8/2009 @ 7:37 AM *

JJ Said: "... just a smoother overall response to acceleration."

When in a code or the backup mode with the, 'flashing FI' I would have to disagree about this bike being smooth with flies out. But, I was without sensor in play. This brought on an annoying digital tone where it was tolerably smooth, but when I lost the code and the actuator and sensor were back on line and I had a normal dash?

Now I understand how much smoother the bike can run without that GPS buzz on the locked (6) [you can feel that digital ring in]. Yes, I can get the bike to skip over bumps is more jump over them. Like JJ said, you will understand how much on tap you have where if you like, you can loft off some nasty bumps and have a little hang time; once you feed this bike your own air and not the sub dragging behind.

I have more of a, 'sweet revenge' that I opened my mouth, showed you a trick and the factory shut it down the next year. So to the decision makers at the farm, Read Dis! =

Well, I finally did it! I removed the flies and what a difference. The roll-on between 3500 and 6000 rpm is unbelievable
compared to stock. I should have done it with my 06. The only problem is it did not go as planned! I ended up following all of the hints on the forum eg soldering iron and gas heater, but two screws stripped. I drilled the one out easily, but the second one was on cylinder 4 and it was the left hand one. That was almost mission impossible. I got a drill extension and really struggled, but all worked out well. I also had to 'tap' the heads, but the rod is quite robust so I don't think I did any damage. I am going to have the mapping checked, but I am sure it will be OK. Cheers.

I am still inclear on if this can be done with no other mods. Do I need a Power Commander or other remapping device, or can I do this and leave everything else stock? If I don't remap, will this hurt the bike? I'd like to remove the flies, but not if it's going to cost me $300 for a PC. Can someone settle this?

If that is an 08 you have, I wouldn't bother pulling flies. It won't hurt a thing if you do but it is a bit of a touchy procedure and the gain- I'm not sure it is even noticeable on a G2. We have pretty much all the bottom end we're going to get out of the G2. I have run my 08 for 4,000 miles without flies and no PC. I have not burned a hole in a piston yet and I doubt there is any risk of that happening. I will be istalling a PCV with a flies out map soon and we will see if it makes any dif.

If that's a 06 - 07, I would pull the flies as soon as you can get around to it. I would use a PC right away to be on the safe side but the bike will still run on stock map though it could be a little on the lean side with the flies pulled.

If you are going to do other mods at some point, the PC will probably be very beneficial. It actually will improve your stock bike with stock exhaust. I hear there are DynoJet maps for unmodded bikes and they can be used to increase performance or save fuel.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/4/2009 @ 8:55 PM *

I have a 2007.

Hi, Toolman, I am not 100% sure if the settings will need readjusting, but as Rook says he has done a bunch of miles with no hassles. Maybe Hub could help here as I took my bike back to "my" dyno man and he said the bike needs remapping as it is 'running too lean after the flies removal'. I am not so sure about this, as all the flies are is an air restrictor and the computer sets the mixture. In saying that, air restrictor is the word, I suppose, as now the bike is getting more air. An honest answer from a dyno guy would be appreciated, but in SA they charge R1500.00 to map it each time, and at R 8.00 to the dollar it is 188 USD, which is expensive here too, so I suppose they will insist on 'remapping' the bike each time something is done. For peace of mind, a Power Commander is the way to go. The difference with no flies is great. Cheers.

I figure I would add this to the sticky, since I was struggling with my assembly....

gver wrote: "I may just wait until winter and take the throttle bodies out, and extract the flies on the bench."

Ya know what, gver... So it's fresh in my head: I just swapped throttle bodies and your idea is a lot safer/easier. There are two ram holes that do not let your screwdriver line up 90° straight down on the screw(s). Once you figure out how quick you can remove the t-body, it really is not that complicated to use a tire dressing on the rubber for a lube on dis-assembly and assembly.

I spray a little on my finger to lube the lip to body, and then because my hands are lubed anyway, I take the velocity stack and lube the outside so it sides in the pocket easier. The inner v-stack clamp rings go toward the back so you remember the others face front.

You leave the lower throttle cable alone for now and just remove the easier one you can gain access to. Once you lift the body out of the rubber head spigots, you then lace the other throttle cable off and on before you plant the body back into the spigots. You kink that cable, it will break/fray eventually.

So, check this out... I cleaned the spigots all nice and dry so I could angle the body's rear in first and then press down on the front. Remember, I am all grit clean and dry for assembly. I am struggling with the fit. I now try that tire spray as a lube. I hardly hit the body and she fell right inn, I shit you not!

Because of the fine screw threads of the clamps, I brush them with a Q-tip full of anti-seize. I lube both ends of the threads, so when I hand twist the screw out for assembly, I fill the inner thread hole twice on the screw back in. On assembly, lay the clamp over the body first before you set the v-stack down on the t-body. You will have to now raise the clamp onto the v-stack, line the nipples into the holes, then pre-screw the clamp on the velocity stack, so you have the holes lined up on release, the clamp/stack now can lay down on the body.

Look in the ram's service cover opening. Make sure there is an equal space line down the stacks between each other so they do not buckle against one another. Just shoot photos so you can reference before dis-assembly where things go.

harley, Me thinks the faster vacuum suck can keep up with the crank speed. Me thinks to ask the dyno tuner how FI operates? If he can walk the steps to the TPS, the Crank Speed, the IAP is pressure on that wafer like a split second you can see the ignition retard on the shifting, then locks full ignition again. That is the TPS and IAP unloading it happens so fast I have yet to hole a piston in mine is zero fuel cutting. So does Puddles fly open without the sub-system in play?

Hey-Hey-Hey, Fat Albert lifts my can it can!

Hey I just did this on my 07, and ma it was a B!@#$%^. I read all the post I could find and all the helpful tips like what size screw driver, to use a electric sodering iron, oh and dont beat on the bar. That did'nt work or rather it worked 5 out of the 8. My nightmare came when I started striping screws and then i was like F$%^. So i broke out the high speed dremel and cut the heads off the screws to remove the plates and then punched out the stock of the screws. I used a magnet to get the big pieces of metal shavings out then a high powered vacum to pull the rest. Lastly I took an oiled rag and used that to wipe any left over metal dust out. So far so good, no FI light errors and everything seems fine, I havn't had a chance to try her out yet. I alos installed a set of TiForce High mount slip-ons and a PC3usb at the same time so I'll have to see how it goes duing the maden run.

* Last updated by: bignibb on 3/15/2010 @ 12:23 AM *

FYI: The screws that hold the fly plates in are JIS screws not Phillips. You will have better luck with a #2 JIS screwdriver. Phillips screwdrivers tend to cam out and strip JIS screws.

* Last updated by: zoldar on 5/3/2010 @ 9:18 AM *

The difference between the two screwdrivers is the phillips comes to more of a point, you have to grind off the very tip of the phillips and then it will fit right. I dont recomend takeing them out unless you know something that the factory engineers that designed the intake system didnt quite have figured out yet. They are in there to speed up the air flow into the cylinders at lower rpm's.
__________________

* Last updated by: buck20 on 5/5/2010 @ 2:18 AM *

Actually - the the secondary butterfly valves limit the airflow into the throttle bodies to restrict low end power.

* Last updated by: zoldar on 5/5/2010 @ 6:22 AM *

My Question

Hi guys, Im in need of help here. I removed my flies yesterday but had problems with one screw. After rounding it off i decided to drill the head off. Said and done the head is off and the plate gone. But now im scared that the last end of the screw one day will unscrew itself and fall into the engine. So i thought i'd remove the shaft and remove the last piece but i cant get it out. It seems stuck even though i released the ends of it. Any other screws to relive ? Please help fast. Regards

Hub's Answer:

This is a very close tolerance shaft. Rub your finger of the torn thread sticking out. Feel a high-spot? Flat file that down. Do not cut into to rod. Just flush the nick down so it slides out. That screw will never come out. It has a liquid lock and air flow will not twirl it out.

My Reply:

Hub too late. I drilled the rod to get the last piece out, the hole is about as big as it was in the first place. What could be the problem with that ? I Tried assembling it togheter and im getting a weird noice and an error. When i turn the key, the normal sound wich you hear (i imagine its the fuel injection) keeps going alot longer and sound more... how can i say, like, something is stuck or something. Its like something is trying to reach its place but cant, and i get FI error. I will not start the bike in this condition. Any suggestions or thoughts ? Im really tired with this now, one screw could fuck up so much... :/

Peace

Did you find the torx tool needed tip with the shaft spin, or did I fall asleep at the wheel, never sent it in?

Senior moment says boolean search says you are not timed-in with the Sub-sensor. Buy a special tamper-proof hex head or a torx brand named socket. Remove the service plate again, spin the sub shaft to re-key the sub's spring loaded key-way. You assembled back the shaft into the un-sprung sensor now. That threw the code. So, remove the sub with the torx, spin the sub shaft so as to key the spring tension is somewhere in the middle when you reinstall the sub sensor.

With key on now, you simply time the FI off the dash by moving the sensor till you swing the sensor either way to calibrate the sensor back in. I think that is you problem with the one end of the throttle body shaft. Worry about that plastic/spring flutter on the other end... IF you did not tamper there or have it assembled correctly back then we are OK.

* Last updated by: Hub on 5/7/2010 @ 6:43 PM *

Okey Hub, thanks for the info. Since im not a mechanic wiz, nor is that great in english (live in sweden) im gonna have to take a little more basic step by step. Here's what i've done with the thing since i started. Removed the nessecary part in order to reach the sub plates. Removed the sub plates. Drilled out the last screw from the Shaft in order to make sure no parts is gonna come out sooner or later. I never removed the shaft because i dident know how. What i did do in the search for a was to remove4 the shaft was: Removed the plastic/spring flutter that you are talking about on the throttle end, Removed the thing next to it wich has a small "rod" that can push on the throttle plate (it is inserted into a spring, 2 lock nuts on the top). On the other side of the shaft i used a torx to remove 2 plates wich has cables coming out of it, im guessing these would be the service plate maybe ? Inside of it is the plastic end of the Shaft.

All i did was turn the shaft a little back and forth from the end where the plastic/spring thingy was, i never fully removed the shaft.

Put stuff back the way i thought they were, but obviously that wasent it, the plastic/spring flutter seems akward in place, im guessing it can be too tight or too lose?

Installed a PC3 and Ivans TRE 006a before i turned igniton. Turned ignition, weird sound and FI error on the screen. Removed the plastic/spring flutter because it seemed to me like that was the problem but couldent figure out how i could have done it wrong.

First of all i need to know wich part is wich, spring/plastic flutter is green, i know that one. Sub sensor? Would it be the plate on opposite side with the torx head ? Service plate ? Shaft being the shaft on wich the flies were assembled.

Thank you / Marcus