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Thread: Flies Removal-probs

Created on: 02/24/09 12:00 AM

Replies: 92

bgmagma10


bgmagma10's Gravatar

Joined: 08/25/13

Posts: 165

RE: Flies Removal-probs
08/25/13 9:30 AM

Hey guys, I have been trying to read up on whether to do or not to do the secondary fly removal. Does it really make a good difference to do it? Mine is bone stock and probably will be until I can afford a pipe and reflash. But for quick easy power is this a must?

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1400R


1400R's Gravatar

Location:

Pertheadland Australia

Joined: 07/25/13

Posts: 283

RE: Flies Removal-probs
08/31/13 5:10 AM

Leave them in and concentrate on how to make them open when you need it.
The re flash part of your wish list should be able to achieve this.
Taking them out is reverse engineering in my books when a good flash or reasonable priced equipment to do the flashing yourself will fix it.



Get on it....

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Wolfman



Joined: 03/29/13

Posts: 6714

RE: Flies Removal-probs
01/02/14 2:32 PM

AGREEEEEEEED!
PLEASE do not remove the flies...A good flash should open those valves when you need em!
I would not remove them!

If you've already taken them out and are happy with the results, good on you. Good on you for doihg the work yourself!

My flies are in, and safety mode is out. The bike is a vortex of speed!
W







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Romans


Romans's Gravatar

Location: Toronto,ON

Joined: 02/13/09

Posts: 5924

RE: Flies Removal-probs
01/02/14 7:32 PM

Does it really make a good difference to do it?

Yes it does.

But for quick easy power is this a must?

Must ? Quick easy if your a handy with the tools yes ? Let me offer a different point of view.

My vote Pull Them. This comes From your Avatar Pic. Drag Racer ?

Guys are pointing you in the right direction with the flash, but if you can't wait, Go for the free mod. The largest part of what we enjoying with the flash is simulating A much sooner fly opening. So it's befits are clear. But, Also keep in mind low power mode is now gone as this mode also uses the flies.

Safety Mode is controlled by the flies, kicks in if leave the line to hard. So, No Flies No worries of safety mode Pulling power. Also Flies Don't open fully until TPS hit 5500 RPM in the 14R but only if your at 100% TPS. Leave anything below 5500 RPM flies are not open, unless, you go to wide open. Either way Your caught with launch issues and missing power.

Lee made his fastest run ever with flies out(8.43 Smooooookin Fast). Real World Food For Thought. Brock does a much better job explaining with video. Check it out.

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bill



Joined: 12/19/13

Posts: 2

RE: Flies Removal-probs
01/08/14 10:52 AM

Thanks for all the great info. I believe I'm leaving the flys in if thats all the difference I can expect. Hey, I'm 64 years old and love the speed. I want to do a few rolling burn outs now and then to have some fun. If I can do that and run fast as you obviouly can with this bike, I'll be happy. The quickest bikes I've owned before this one was my 919 and a Buell lightning. The feel of the 919 was the reason I went to the big dog. Appreciate all the great info. Bill

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jessejames4


jessejames4's Gravatar

Location:

Fairfield County, Connecticut

Joined: 05/26/09

Posts: 127

RE: Flies Removal-probs
01/08/14 11:22 AM

Asking about the flies in or out is like asking which oil to use or tires to get. It's really a personal preference. When I pulled my secondary flies, response in bottom-end torque was enough for me to feel it was a significant mod. It's not like you can't put them back if you don't like the result.

My only warning would be to use a new magnetic phillips head screwdriver or make sure there is a magnet near the screw coming out to ensure it doesn't fall down into the abyss.

Once they are out, proceed slowly until you are used to the difference in throttle response on acceleration.
Not rocket science.



Jesse
06 zx14
97 zx11

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06BlueZX14


06BlueZX14's Gravatar

Location: SoCal

Joined: 04/02/09

Posts: 258

RE: Flies Removal-probs
04/14/14 10:24 PM

I like the flies out b/c I like to control the power myself........guess I'm not ready to be told what I can do by a machine.



2007 Kawasaki ZX-14
2006 Kawasaki ZX-14
2005 Yamaha Vmax
2005 Yamaha R1
2003 Kawasaki EX250
1992 Yamaha FZR
1986 Yamaha Radian
1986 Yamaha Vmax
1978 Honda Gold Wing

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aegisranger


aegisranger's Gravatar

Location:

Western Pennsylvania

Joined: 04/03/13

Posts: 192

RE: Flies Removal-probs
09/23/14 12:53 PM

I had my tank off to run some wiring. While I was in there I took off the covers to look at the flys. So tempting since I was there... so out came the 18" screwdriver. For each screw I heated the screwdriver tip with a torch, set the tip into the screw and let it sit there a minute to heat up. The screws twisted right out with no drama or stripping. Used a magnet to grab each screw and a long needle-nose to grab each plate. I also pulled out my dirty air filter and replaced it with a stock Kawi one with the screen removed.

I have to say that it was worth it. Easy part throttle wheelies in first and second. Much better midrange when not WOT. Just added some more fun, and it was free. I guess this will do for now until I decide what flash to get. I'd like the cblast, but $$$$ too much for me right now - especially with a basic flash avaiable for 75.



After 3 seconds of full throttle, everything else on the road becomes 'Oncoming Traffic'...
1991 Suz VX800(project), 1986 Suz Savage (daughter's bike), 2001 Ducati 748, 2007 Honda VFR800, 2015 Kawasaki ZX14R, 1987 Buick Grand National, 2013 Subaru BRZ

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Auron


Auron's Gravatar

Joined: 01/25/12

Posts: 574

RE: Flies Removal-probs
11/01/14 9:00 AM

I wouldn't mind some ideas for getting them back in.

I had to try it with them out, it would have driven me nuts if I didn't but now I'm finding getting them back in to be more dangerous than taking them out.

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Rook


Rook's Gravatar

Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 19330

RE: Flies Removal-probs
11/01/14 12:43 PM

if you are willing to remove the throttle bodies, you have 0 chance of dropping a screw in.

otherwise, painstakingly line the bore below the actuator arm with tin foil. Seal it with tape. If you drop it, use a magnet to pick it up. Just don't drop any tape or tin foil in there.

A magnetic screwdriver ought to help.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, Super Sprox 17t output sprocket, AFM 45t rear sprocket, EK zzz 530 chain, Gilles Tooling axle adjusters, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Ignition Module, LCD-200, Speedohealer V4, Glow-Shift gauges, Illumiglow 210 mph clock faces, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Moto-D magnetic oil drain plug, MIT billet oil filler cap, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, LighTech fuel tank cap, Vortex rearsets, lightweight mudflap bracket, FP Racing preload adjusters, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Bridgeport 90° valve stems, CZ 320mm front rotors, Galfer rear wave rotor, Pazzo levers, ProBots Dzus fasteners and many other bolts replaced with aluminum or Ti, Vortex mirror blocks, CRG bar end mirrors, LSL frame sliders, axle sliders, billet bar ends, 2WheelWorkz muffler

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zx14pilot



Joined: 01/10/10

Posts: 3

RE: Flies Removal-probs
11/10/14 8:26 AM

I thought about going back with mine also, agree with Rook on removing throttle bodies to replace, problem not being dropping into the abyss, because if your primarys are closed they should catch if screw is dropped, and you can retrieve with magnet. the problem I found is:
1: holding the plate to get the screw started.
2: using red Loctite to put back, and having problems if I ever need to remove again.
3: using blue Loctite and maybe take a chance on throwing a screw thru the motor...

Why would I want to replace?? if all I done was drag race or cruise or top end runs, I would definitely leave out, but most of my riding is in the twisties, and that off throttle to on throttle transition, is very abrupt when banked over hard, exiting a turn. RPM's have dropped, you are off the throttle and on the brakes, you turn in, off the brakes and when you 1st open the throttle, there can be that initial surge of torque, if you are not very gentle with your wrist.

But at present time I have left out until I can pull throttle bodies and I can get a strait answer on what type of Locking agent KHI uses on the screws. But I am terrified now of putting back, and having a screw back out, under operation.
I have been told it is my tune, so I am going to try a new tune this winter and see if that helps...

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Brogs


Brogs's Gravatar

Joined: 09/06/16

Posts: 27

RE: Flies Removal-probs
08/03/17 8:29 PM

I actually put the Flies back in my bike as per mr. ghoul and had Henry flash to ECU the bike is the super animal the Flies open like they're supposed to not choke the bike down it was the best money I spent on the bike. http://www.guhlmotors.com/



08 flies out hindle 4-2-1 header delkevic muffler 16 tooth sprocket pc3 speedo healer.

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Rook


Rook's Gravatar

Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 19330

RE: Flies Removal-probs
08/04/17 2:26 AM

I can't understand how tuning flies makes a bit of difference compared to removing but tuning has always been recommended over removal on the busa. Romans says remove them or tune them, either/or. SmokinZX14 Lee Pritchard's fastest time was with flies out, Brock says leaving them in makes a couple more peak hp....?? I don't get how it makes a difference. If they are tuned, seems to me you get as much power to the ground as possible and if they are removed, you have to control the power with your wrist. How does cutting back the flow of air make more power? Never could comprehend that. I mean you have two throttles going into one engine. How does one opening up slower than the other make more power?


* Last updated by: Rook on 8/4/2017 @ 2:27 AM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, Super Sprox 17t output sprocket, AFM 45t rear sprocket, EK zzz 530 chain, Gilles Tooling axle adjusters, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Ignition Module, LCD-200, Speedohealer V4, Glow-Shift gauges, Illumiglow 210 mph clock faces, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Moto-D magnetic oil drain plug, MIT billet oil filler cap, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, LighTech fuel tank cap, Vortex rearsets, lightweight mudflap bracket, FP Racing preload adjusters, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Bridgeport 90° valve stems, CZ 320mm front rotors, Galfer rear wave rotor, Pazzo levers, ProBots Dzus fasteners and many other bolts replaced with aluminum or Ti, Vortex mirror blocks, CRG bar end mirrors, LSL frame sliders, axle sliders, billet bar ends, 2WheelWorkz muffler

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cruderudy


cruderudy's Gravatar

Location: AMR

Joined: 08/15/12

Posts: 1794

RE: Flies Removal-probs
08/04/17 2:15 PM

Its not more air or less air, but getting the right amount of air. In theory the secondary plates allow the mixture to be tuned closer to stoichiometric than without. Rocket scientists spend massive amounts of your tax $$$ to get that right in the combustion chamber during launch so we can get something the size of a big bus into geosynchronous orbit. This is why tuners are always looking at AFR or telling you "get a wideband sensor". From a control system perspective Guhl(sp) and others have worked out how to use the secondary butterflies in their control loop while others haven't or have not done the work so they want them removed. A simple but less robust control loop analysis.

Is it the weekend yet?


* Last updated by: cruderudy on 8/4/2017 @ 2:16 PM *



Perfectly Set up '06 dead and gone
New BBW '14 14R

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Rook


Rook's Gravatar

Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 19330

RE: Flies Removal-probs
08/04/17 9:40 PM

OK, now I'm picturing how a stepdown works to control the fluctuations in the hose of a vacuum gauge. The gauge works without the stepdown but the reading is erratic. Get the best sized stepdown to control the main flow and the secondary flow is a lot easier to control. Something like that, I suppose.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, Super Sprox 17t output sprocket, AFM 45t rear sprocket, EK zzz 530 chain, Gilles Tooling axle adjusters, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Ignition Module, LCD-200, Speedohealer V4, Glow-Shift gauges, Illumiglow 210 mph clock faces, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Moto-D magnetic oil drain plug, MIT billet oil filler cap, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, LighTech fuel tank cap, Vortex rearsets, lightweight mudflap bracket, FP Racing preload adjusters, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Bridgeport 90° valve stems, CZ 320mm front rotors, Galfer rear wave rotor, Pazzo levers, ProBots Dzus fasteners and many other bolts replaced with aluminum or Ti, Vortex mirror blocks, CRG bar end mirrors, LSL frame sliders, axle sliders, billet bar ends, 2WheelWorkz muffler

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2strokekawie750


2strokekawie750's Gravatar

Location: Bend, OR

Joined: 01/06/19

Posts: 14

RE: Flies Removal-probs
02/03/19 10:56 AM

I’m contemplating removing the flies on my 2006 Gen I. My bike has <1000 miles on it. I do have that lag in first gear around 3-4K RPM. It was dyno’ed by the previous owner and the dyno chart shows the dip in the HP and torque right at that range. I’m new to the ZX14 so forgive me regarding the issues with this bike. Bike has a PC III and full titanium exhaust, and aftermarket reusable air filter. It was dyno’ed with these mods.

So my question is, will removing the flies make a noticeable difference and get rid of that hesitation??

I welcome your comments and experiences with the flies removed. Thanks in advance.



RBD

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jstewart



Joined: 08/02/20

Posts: 17

RE: Flies Removal-probs
09/08/20 10:32 AM

This has been covered by rook & hub but I would like to add something else. Don't know if you guys realise that Japanese phillips are different. When I finally realised this I bought a set of JIS phillips screw drivers. No more stripped phillips screws after that. Also bought a set of different size JIS phillips bits for my impact driver. Just a suggestion if you work on Japanese stuff with phillips screws.

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Rook


Rook's Gravatar

Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 19330

RE: Flies Removal-probs
09/08/20 4:17 PM

Yep, always heard the JIS screwdrivers were the ones to use. If you can find them. It wouldn't be a bad idea for me to order a set.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, Super Sprox 17t output sprocket, AFM 45t rear sprocket, EK zzz 530 chain, Gilles Tooling axle adjusters, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Ignition Module, LCD-200, Speedohealer V4, Glow-Shift gauges, Illumiglow 210 mph clock faces, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Moto-D magnetic oil drain plug, MIT billet oil filler cap, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, LighTech fuel tank cap, Vortex rearsets, lightweight mudflap bracket, FP Racing preload adjusters, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Bridgeport 90° valve stems, CZ 320mm front rotors, Galfer rear wave rotor, Pazzo levers, ProBots Dzus fasteners and many other bolts replaced with aluminum or Ti, Vortex mirror blocks, CRG bar end mirrors, LSL frame sliders, axle sliders, billet bar ends, 2WheelWorkz muffler

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