Okay, Romes, Justin, you start. [JK]

With the download on both hard drives, [thanks Justin] I'm able to see a bigger picture of the program. When Romes explained the ignition curve numbers, I now see what he means. And when I drilled-down to 'safety mode,' I'm beginning to wrap a few things around the cranium.

So if we are seeing 3 maps, this still hides the limp maps?

Next was to answer a few things like, darn, I can't work the 3-D map via mouse drippings, I lower the grid line up or down. All I can do with the mouse is 360 degree the map and watch it continue to circle in a 3-D fashion. The next is how buggy this new computer is. I keep wiping the drive, I'll keep loosing the bins.

Anyway, I need to be on the level Justin is. I need to find the idle maps or how to lower the idle? I see we are wet from 0 to 600, but map wise, our lowest number is 600 rpm. So I need to be at 900rpm, not 1,100 like it moves like clockwork back to that number. Where is that bin?

Do you see where engine braking would continue with clutch out under deep braking application? At 1,100 rpm, you'd set the slipper in motion. I'd somehow chase that puppy if I knew where to ping it inside that black box. So the question is, if the ignition map is in degrees, watt is the fuel map in? How do you use that number for what abstract? Milliseconds of fuel opening? I can wrap the idea around the degree numbers, what are we calling the fuel numbers as?

The toggle switch is another deal. I read that if you are going to reflash, go back to the center toggle, then back to flash. What is read for? Who rewrites where? I left the toggle in the middle when I was plugged in. Was I still reading the ECU's maps or the bin maps? I need that wrap-around of those 3 positions and when to use them? In other words, I need a step by step walk from key stroke to key stroke.

I would think there has to be an 'idle reset map' somewhere in that box? How close am I? And when I looked at the sub setting, I said to myself, I can drag/drop that whole cell grid to 100% open. I then drill down the radio click under the sub heading, click that, then see the whole map switch to 100% numbers, the 3-D map is flat as a pancake. Yeah, and every X to Y on that 3-D map you intersect, it shows the yellow dot on the map and what cell you tapped on. I see both of those wrapped together now... [I'm slowly catching on].

This is going to be a steep or short learning curve, it looks simple, but it is getting complex at the same time. Man is that safety ignition curve something else [he laughed]!

Here, I'm about to make an attempt at a flash. I have the 11v plugged in the wooly harness. The usb cable in the tower, the ecu and log box in between. I have the bin files loaded and can see the maps and other radio clicks.

1. My log box is in the middle switch, I am blind, I don't need to know who's light is on? I'm going to assume the log box works perfect, more, I want to know what my 3 switches do and when I need to move them?

2. My log box switch is set in the middle.
a. Middle means I can look around, open a saved file, match my numbers and nothing is written, or say we are waiting in neutral.
b. Looking at the box, moving left means, I am watching the ecu in real time.
c. Move the switch to the right, I can burn and save in this position.

3. My first move is to go from center to right. What I assume happens is this move thinks you are ready to write over what is there now. So when you switch to the right, this burns in a fresh bin file(s).

4. Remaining in the right position, I am going to enter the ignition map, click on the N. Remember, we are in the ignition layer and we changed this to the other radio click value. We are done here in the ignition map. We need to save this setting so I am going to toggle to the center. This says what I believe is like when the computer asks you to turn your computer off and back on again, this is how the memory is saved.

5. I am in the center toggle now. I am going to now load the fuel map from the center toggle. I now toggle back to the right for it to memorize what I will do to the fuel map? I then radio click my changes in the right toggle mode. I am done with my map changes. I now change back to the center toggle so it saved the last change.

6. I switch back into the right toggle mode. I made 2 changes to the maps. I now hit the radio click of 'write ecu.' The save window pops up. I say yes, and save [not save as]. I then write firstest.bin, hit OK.

7. Everything loads fine. I am now about to shutdown the ECU and box. I first removing the molex connector off the log box. I pull the 11v wall connector out.

8. I reinstall the ECU in the bike and test. How close am I?

The videos on Justin's site are well worth the watch Hub.
It will walk you through most things.
Data Mode is a bit a grey area for explanation.
For Adjustments.
Open a NEW bin file relating to your ECU number.
Make the changes you want then put the Dongle in Write Mode (red led ON) or right switch position then click the Write ECU Button.
Save the Bin to a location in the PC or laptop hard drive that suits you with a name you can relate to. When it prompts.
It will then do its thing.
Please watch all his video's.

Data Mode is a bit a grey area for explanation.

If you figured out how open a closed loop seems to work as in my way of thinking it out, this is the same type of steps I'm going to hubbish myself thru. It's going to be all whack until it hits me how simple the complex is.

Since this is math and it takes logic, when that was handed out, I was looking out the window in class. So now I'm paying for it. I have to figure out that abstract and what 'filter' means? I have to convert that filter abstract into whatever it means so I can understand this being all new to me.

If I understand filtering it means it can help build the table if said parameters are met. Right there is a map change if the filter is going to change or filter that signal. I'm going to read anyone's abstract and apply it somehow? Try ecuEdit for a program education. The bike right now is going thru the R&D morph once again.

If you want to take a crack at the abstract with the Wooly bins, or really the mitsheets maps/toggling, be my guest. Thatswatthisallabout = DeHubbit, bit buy bit... Cha Ching!

I KNOW YOU KNOW what SMOOTH is..........gonna be cool when you get the perfecto smooth move bike with your Wooly Mammoth;)I think you can do it Hubster...yes....it will be unlike any of these other programs are.;)

Gonna run glassmooth Like big boy here. But with a Bhut Jolokia up its ass.

For Justin or the computer savvy. Here is the theory. I'm watching utube mapping, come across someone who mentions to take your map and run an individual file, not compile it into one bin file. He says it could/has/might corrupt the other bin files made. That is his thinking that they all stay within one file? I know there is a crap load of files in one microsoft file alone. You click that [+ file] with the icon over it, she shows just a little part of how the system works. They don't seem to corrupt themselves per say, like ever? I'm wondering if your whole desktop is going to be one mess with one bin file one after the other. Is this guy paranoid or could this happen?

So this is more what Justin would hear over the phone, meaning, if any files go corrupt? So Romes, how many burns do you have in one file? Or is your desktop looking like the burn center like mine is going to look like? I say they won't corrupt you keep throwing one burn into one file, one after the other.

"run an individual file, not compile it into one bin file. He says it could/has/might corrupt the other bin files made".

I don't think so.You're instructing the 'file' to be separate when you 'save'...the 'bin' is just that...a basket of 'saved' files...each separate.Like a folder.Lots of different files...none corrupting the other.

I've had some 'corrupted' files on my GoPro at times...but you shouldn't have that issue on a desktop fully powered computer.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/27/2013 @ 10:12 AM *

When attempting to tune your bike, you no longer need to pull a plug an check for color. Today, your color reader is an AFR meter. This is your safety valve. Right now, this is all for chasing the base fuel/ign [camera] reads. Then the tuning begins. So if you rather have a dyno tech with that tool at some shop, you can pay for the wheel or you can bung up and read it/change things yourself.

As for the other meter, it is working off the gas tank evap solenoid. Under light loads, I'm almost running off the road watching, so I'll have the cam next time out to watch a little action. I think this [hose] might be running off one cylinder? I have to yank the throttle body to really find out what hose is doing what?

Anyway, I would hook this up to check compression on the '08 and the needle would pin to 220. Same compression number I had with a compression gauge out of the spark plug hole: both cold engine numbers. If I recall, book calls for 174 to 261 psi for the R. 228 was peak for the 14.

It's going to be interesting to see WOT number this engine is going to show. The bung is next, then wire up the sniff box. The box is a quick release... Almost... So I can download the AFR [as if looking at the same dyno line at a shop] and change the map accordingly. Ignition move is simple. Ping, then back off a few degrees.

So for baseline ha-ha's, I'm after peak compression so we have a healthy muleR to begin with.

* Last updated by: Hub on 3/16/2014 @ 11:04 PM *

I've had some 'corrupted' files on my GoPro at times

Well see, that's what I meant. One folder for one bin file. You throw in all your cam work in one folder, she goes corrupt is what you are saying. So the trick is: One bin file, one folder. Unless Romes has all his bins in one folder <I meant to say.

* Last updated by: Hub on 9/27/2013 @ 10:20 AM *

" You throw in all your cam work in one folder, she goes corrupt is what you are saying."...no,I'm not saying that.I'm saying...each file is separate from the other.They cannot'magically' intercross info.You save what you create...it's saved.The Camera file corruption occurs when the camera firmware has a power cut or something...then resumes...it ends up having fragmented file parts...and that corrupts the file. You know...pushing buttons(telling it what to do)and 'confusing' the button pushes...or not giving it time to run one command before it's dealing with another...and so on.

You shouldn't have any issue like that on your desktop.MAYBE..a laptop might do something like that...(internal power source low)...but external power...no...

I'm not saying it COULDN'T happen...hell...almost anything's possible.But if you're taking your time and following the procedure(s) for creating files into one folder...it should be fine.Like making a movie.But your Wooly software does the 'editing' according to your commands.I'd have to see how the editing works on that Wooly deal...sounds pretty professional to me however...ie,free of computer mixups along the way.

There's a big difference between this GoPro'throwaway' camera and your professional quality software program.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/27/2013 @ 1:19 PM *

So Romes, how many burns do you have in one file? Or is your desktop looking like the burn center like mine is going to look like? I say they won't corrupt you keep throwing one burn into one file, one after the other.

How many flash overs in a bin is all depending what you decide to change ? I just had Justin remove 21175- 0715 Bin From Wooly. sorry if any of you needed that one. Important to be able to recognize Corrupt bin Before flashing in.

Okay, Romes, Justin, you start. [JK]
With the download on both hard drives, [thanks Justin] I'm able to see a bigger picture of the program. When Romes explained the ignition curve numbers, I now see what he means. And when I drilled-down to 'safety mode,' I'm beginning to wrap a few things around the cranium.

Yes, now you can see all diff maps including the N map. How kawi wants this bike to run with no load was a eye opener. This was a missing piece from 2006 ECU when we were tuning out side. wish I had of seen this then, grrrrrr

Interesting enough the safety top end map is what we have been using and this is very close the Ignition maps from 2006-2011 top end. I found this very odd for a stroker motor. hmmmmm.

It's going to be interesting to see WOT number this engine is going to show. The bung is next, then wire up the sniff box. The box is a quick release... Almost... So I can download the AFR [as if looking at the same dyno line at a shop] and change the map accordingly. Ignition move is simple. Ping, then back off a few degrees.
So for baseline ha-ha's, I'm after peak compression so we have a healthy muleR to begin with.

Hub I might be able to walk you through the entire flash over the phone. You have 02 sensor and AFR gauge I can see, but how are you going to data log to make a flash ? If You have All three in play you are now ready.

Having the Woolich alone is not enough to make your own flash but it is enough to data transfer.

The electronics software will walk us through the making of the #'s but the inputs are all based on what you the user ask the software to do. Sounds Tricky but really is quite easy once you get into it. Inputs.

Hub If you get this down it helps us all. This summer I had my ass kicked by my own flash when I installed The dyno shoot out winner in my bike. Switched back to Ole School ways soon after, Time To Distance Tuning using ram air. Not the dyno HP winner. Old ways teaching me again. Like was always stated "You Must Burn Fuel To Make Power" and we are all to quik to lean it out for what looks good on paper??? Mother kawi knows better in the 14R. Early gens needed more work.

Hub I now know why Ivan did what he did with his PCV maps. Maybe using both types of 02 sensors is the ticket, which was always his way. All those years I dismissed that idea as being, well, Old ?. My bad.

Your input in this area is going to shine as it is in your back yard. Sad part is when I could go no further and all work was complete inside the ECU I lost interest.

Not sure where you are currently in the Flash ?

How can I help ?

Videos shows exactly how I do my data logging.

Your input in this area is going to shine as it is in your back yard. Sad part is when I could go no further and all work was complete inside the ECU I lost interest.

Not sure where you are currently in the Flash ?

How can I help ?

Thanks, Romes... You and grn thinking I'll come up with a map or any kind of burn? I have like you said, tons of outside tuning, say if I wanted to run a pipe, subs, pc5 or pick a hack kind of tuning, it's there. What I'm interested in are more of the basics. I came across a set of vintage (1981) books and it shows the basics of a microprocessor. So imagine what they knew then and now. Not much since they are stuck using the same numbers? They sure are. So basic is the count and that's one abstract down: it's so absolute or it won't compute.

The book is obviously over my head at this point, but the more I reread it a few times, there are words that I've heard before that more explain it a lot deeper. Those are the kind of steps I'm looking for, but here I am stuck with 3 types of mathematical processes one could use for those maps: to number out as they do. There is my stumble point to keep the hobby going.

And I just started to see one set of numbers that would cause that 'integer' to happen as C was seeing it so clearly: thank you Mrs. Matics, one of C's teachers and C schooled me. So yes, I am still in search mode, the book, the maps, the numbers are starting to speak to me like C can see it without a calc in hand is my guess?

_____________________________________

I am currently opening up the Wooly, but only to poke around and more learn the pages. I have to let it sink in over and over (like the book) drilling for the next step. The filtering page has my attention, but I haven't searched the auto software sites to see: if 'filter' is one in the same? So that filter page has its own abstract. So far, I have no clue? More puzzle pieces to keep it interesting. So if I make a change, why not filter some numbers first? If I'm going to attempt anything, I'd first burn a filter page so I have a baseline. Why mess with the fuel/ign if say the filter is going to do something not filtered say.

See where I'm going? I want to figure out those numbers first before I attempt a burn. That book might get me there and it all has to be somehow simple inside. It works with numbers. The software is showing me more details as to the way the 0 and 1 spit out those numbers you see? It's a math count that is all about the basics I should have popped the hood on that radio instead of the car when I was young.

_____________________________________________________

You are helping with most every post as far as I'm concerned. The pc was never interesting to me, because it wasn't really under her dress I was peeking at. With a Wooly skirt, she has a lot of parts to play with I reach up dare. How to burn from beginning to end became fairly simple: when I kept on playing with the software. Just your regular 'Joe-A nervous novice,' usually in the beginning for me.

As far as the map, if there is a downloadable one on the Woolich site, I'll more be in a study of those number changes instead. As far as me coming up with a map, you know I'm going to ruin the recipe and wink a little stink at it.

* Last updated by: Hub on 11/17/2013 @ 9:16 PM *

You're being too modest...you can do this....it's certainly not beyond you.....that I'm sure of.You'll get it...then you'll burn some rippin ecu flashes.And not just rippin either...but smooth like you know it should be...

Power is one thing....but nuance is something else.Finesse.You know what that feels like....lots of guys don't;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/17/2013 @ 9:37 PM *

is Hub flashing? NO! next he'll be bolting on a Brock's

(Hub, CT short meg!)

BLASPHEMY!!!

So far, I have no clue? More puzzle pieces to keep it interesting. So if I make a change, why not filter some numbers first? If I'm going to attempt anything, I'd first burn a filter page so I have a baseline. Why mess with the fuel/ign if say the filter is going to do something not filtered say.
See where I'm going?

Filter ?

Hub, What I should have done looking back is made a graph of the AFR lines Kawi used First. This would have given me a better reference point to reflect back on after I started data logging.

We have all read that the ECU makes the changes to compensate for the push and air temps. This you are about to see is not what is claimed. After you prove this in AFR #'s, From here you can work your own reflection into the map. With out this graph how will you know if the changes you make have had a positive effect ????

So with fueling we already know Mother Kawi runs this bike Very Very Lean in the bottom and on the Dyno High 12s at wide open throttle. So, not touching the fueling will be ok, Ignition ok,,,, That been said what are you hoping to accomplish if not to clean up ? I will admit I don't see where you are going ?

You are helping with most every post as far as I'm concerned. The pc was never interesting to me, because it wasn't really under her dress I was peeking at. With a Wooly skirt, she has a lot of parts to play with I reach up dare. How to burn from beginning to end became fairly simple: when I kept on playing with the software. Just your regular 'Joe-A nervous novice,' usually in the beginning for me.

Under her Dress. This is just my may of looking at it.

The PC3,5 were always poor hacks at best as they are not 3D, I get it. But, and it's a Big But, with out them we can STILL do nothing. I know everyone is quick to turn there backs on the Fueling products now that we can flash, but the facts are quite simple, They Work. Look at it this way, what is Woolich with out the AFR gauge and wide band 2 sampling 10 times a second ? Making your own Flash becomes impossible. Data Transfer only.

Auto tune software developers spend millions to produce a product for us to do the all the Math of the where and when. The software comes with the Dyno at time of purchase. Also comes in our wide bands. Learn to use the software and Results are in real time This is Very very important. With out this where and when we have nothing.

I try to understand why the feeling are so strong against, but to be honest I never really understood the hate side of it. Open mind to all inputs lets us move forward. Even as we Flash inside the ECU wide band 2 from Dyno-Jet software will be the base of the New up coming Auto tune. Those who sold may be buying again.

I for one love there software because it's Easy. Keeping it simple always yields the best results. Next time you watch a tune being made on a Dyno take a look where the operator gets his change #'s from. Some may be manual based on his experience to speed up the process but 95% will be generated from computer software. Fueling companies still deserve Credit. We must Try and see it as a whole package or we become 1 dimensional imo.

Yikes I'm off topic. I guess this is more about my style of tuning. Logic dictates we all should end up in the same place. Hub I know you have your bike half torn apart in this quest but I'm not sure I have anything to offer up in that side of the tech, but I will try.

* Last updated by: Romans on 11/18/2013 @ 10:58 AM *

You're being too modest...you can do this....it's certainly not beyond you.....that I'm sure of.You'll get it...then you'll burn some rippin ecu flashes.And not just rippin either...but smooth like you know it should be...

2ND, anyone with the want can do this. Hub has both sides of the tuning coin. If I understand what I'm reading computers pissing him off. And that is something I'm sure we can all relate to.

Yes, Romes, that computer was like a daisy chain. I could not keep it up and running. As soon as I bothered Justin for I don't know how many times before it went out to be fixed under warranty, I was back bothering Justin to get the definitions loaded and a lame move on my part occurred along the way.

So I want to give Justin props for sticking with me the last few days, and weeks before that. Saturday morning I received the repaired unit. I began to download the software from the Woolich site. I then tried booting the definition, saw it hang from loading fully. For some reason I closed the download. Justin walked me thru that move so I knew how to get there again meaning.

I then reloaded the definition, watched it hang one more time, but seemed to fill the bar some. I let it ride, went to dinner and when I came back, there was no movement. I made a call out to Justin: he was right there ready to solve the issue. I was determined to follow my instincts and low and behold it worked.

After I kept refreshing the definition download a few times, each time it would fill the bar and eventually loaded all the files. Try that if you find it hangs up. Worked for me. Then, the next step was to communicate with the ECU. Since the computer came back, has been running all day, I rather not wait any longer to gather the money for another ECU. The computer seems stable so I'm getting the bike ready to happen now, rather than later.

Here I am with the ECU out of the bike, the box plugged in, everything seems to be hooked up [I thought?]. A window pops up and basically says, 'no connection to the ECU.' Here I am back bothering Justin and He is pulling the rabbits out of the hat: he is there again with the solution at hand.

Stubborn as I am, I again take matters into my own hands, pick up the ECU and wondered if I spiked it plugging it in? So I gather up the ECU to light the bike back up and the box comes with it. That's when it happened. It [the box] was laying on the floor; the Molex connector walks out. Justin is there telling me to make sure things are connected and here I am with the box not connected to the ECU.

That sends me right back to the computer, I hit 'read ECU' and there she blows. A window pops up and basically says, 'Success.' So right now, cross my fingers, my communication with Justin, the computer glitch, the definition glitch, the connection glitch, the daisy chain of events and Justin is right there to help. Rome's help here, I don't know who else to thank, but thank you, and the next step is to school myself to flash.

Stay tuned.

Hi Hub, good to get the problems resolved, it is generally something simple like a plug not plugged in etc. you should be right from here.

Here is our communication getting me up and running. Justin kept coming back one after the other. Thanks, Jwool!

ha ha ha, Hub i have just sent you some replacement pins for your bench harness, if i remember correctly you have one of the very first bench harnesses and we are now using a better pin in the ECU plug for this bench harness so i have sent you out some new pins so you can replace them. If anyone else has the very first Kawasaki Bench Harness Type 3, please contact us and we will send you out some new pins. Woolich Racing Contact Us

Once again, thanks to the staff at Woolich Racing getting me back on like for a bin download. It's been this long since this new computer finally [cross the fingers] seems to be stable after two tries at the factory. I downloaded the software again, and to my surprise the layout has some added features, meaning the data logging options, an exhaust pipe configuration, what else?

I had a popup telling me the unit was not connected, but then I kind of remembered to see if I was missing a file and I needed those. Found the drivers I was missing and when I clicked 'Read' again, I began to see 'blocks' being downloaded and there were 8 of them.

Why, lookey there, a set of 8. That bleeds binary to me. Other than that, it goes nowhere, but for me it's a puzzle part. Now that I can work on the mapping, hopefully this tower doesn't freeze, I'm going to go after the ignition first. Yeah, I know there is no advantage, but I have to start somewhere and might as well try the ign curve running smoother in numbers.

Well, here is one for the books. My first attempt at a flash happened in these steps:

1. Flashed the unit and install.
2. Dash shows a flashing lower Mode display.
3. I then think reload so key off/key on.
4. Flashing stops, F-Off now appears.
5. Start engine and it stalls. (now I think; key off and back on so I now have a RAM set?}
6. I start and leave for my appointment. Shifted, how can I [pull] put it? Electrically flawed and foot fighting.
7. Once the idle needed to run by hand, the next stop was miles away so once it stalled at the off ramp, my only thought was I messed up something.
8. I then swapped units and called it a day so my ride continued in the OE.
9. Today I tried to start it to see if it would stall, not idle, but it lit right off as if stock.
10. Conclusion? WATT did I do but pulled the ECU and the 'volatile' was lost. If I have key off, the unit remains hot (W/gry stripes) to save the 'volatile.' What was my last step? I lost the volatile by letting the unit die and so did that memory of not idling.

Now, how did that no idle happen and I have yet to ride it and see if the GPS is also cleared of that wrinkle in the save. Only a ride within a few yards knows for sure. My guess right now is, if this happens, pull the ECU so RAM Saved is lost. Then, the preset [ROM] starts you back up as if this is the backup for start up.

Make sense to some of the issues you might come across on a computer bike? That's my guess, unless someone can explain watt happened...

I have to look and think like a different animal I approach thatrick.

Took a quick ride where morning traffic sort of shortened the run. For some reason, my first flash had the GPS really smacking the shifter and the idle was just at zero cells if you can imagine, because other than that, the bike was like throwing a cleaner hack at it.

My first attempt to install the ECU, I noticed the lower dash flashing. I turned the key off, then back on, the lower code flashing stopped and I saw the locked F-Off when key went back on. Why no idle and poor GPS signal was that memory that was saved when it coded. That ECU stays lit(+) with key off so it's drawing current and saved, I assume, or didn't save a low idle map or who knows? All I know is I had to change the units and abort that test.

When I tried installing the unit again, no codes popped up. So my guess was the RAM or the volatile that was saved, burned out when the current was killed. I plugged in the [ROM] you can't erase like RAM [you can] and it fired right up. Beats me watt changed the drop in idle, but when I noticed that instant start, I figured the GPS was back on line as well.

This morning's ride told me I was correct with the better shift, morning map or whatever water temp signal in the loop took over, it felt stock to me. Once on the on ramp, there was a slightly stronger, yet hack-like feel to it. Once the bike flowed with traffic, that's when I noticed a much smoother feel to it.

Conclusion?
Yes = Smoother.
Yes = An ever so slight layer of grunt-ness to it.
Yes = Sort of like a smooth, brawny, burly, layer in between.
Yes = 13a @ idle = Flashed.
Yes = 14a @ idle = Unflashed.
Yes = Don't kind yourself this is going to chew the wallet at the pump.
Yes = Hard getting the helmet off, the grin got in the way.