It's too bad there are not more people using PCVs these days but I do see why part of the reason for favoring a flash is the simplicity.

When I bought the PCV plus autotune the dealer also said it's easy to use, it's literally plug and play. Well as I found out as well, there's a lot more to it, and takes quite a bit to understand in the beginning. None the less I've learnt a lot about it and learnt to like it.

Since getting my ECU flashed and seeing what the tuner does using Woolich software it caught my interest. (He is also the agent for Woolich here.) He is trying to convince me that it's easier to use the Woolich log box and autotune feature and to build the maps directly in the ECU. In other words remove the PCV and only use the flash software.

Does anyone have experience with the log box and autotune, and is it as easy to use as he is saying?

Or am I better off with the PCV and autotune to correct for altitude and climate changes etc?

When I bought the PCV plus autotune the dealer also said it's easy to use, it's literally plug and play.

I haven't experienced the virtues of flashing but if it's just fueling and timing, I think the DJ products are going to be cheaper if you want to be tuning repeatedly. If you can get Woolich software and Logbox for under $1200, I would say that's better than modules because you have control over everything including fueling and timing. For $1200 you can have all the DJ products for tuning fueling and timing + you can datalog like 15 minutes with the Ignition Module and also some logging capability with the POD-300. Non of the other nice whistles and bells a flash can achieve though.

Since getting my ECU flashed and seeing what the tuner does using Woolich software it caught my interest. (He is also the agent for Woolich here.) He is trying to convince me that it's easier to use the Woolich log box and autotune feature and to build the maps directly in the ECU. In other words remove the PCV and only use the flash software.

You say "He is trying" Whom is "He" Agent for Woolich ? What words did "he" use to try and convince you ?

Untamed could you repeat how this was explained to you ? Could be some great info here.

Or am I better off with the PCV and autotune to correct for altitude and climate changes etc?

Like everyone I have a opinion but would like to hear how this was pitched out to you first. I have always found it's better to assume I am missing some information or I have been mis informed. Sounds like you have your doubts ?

You say "He is trying" Whom is "He" Agent for Woolich ? What words did "he" use to try and convince you ?
Untamed could you repeat how this was explained to you ? Could be some great info here.

If you go onto the Woolich site it directs you automatically to this tuner as the agent locally. (I'm not going to mention names, those that want to know can send me a pm)

In any case when the tuner flashed my ECU and saw I had a PCV set up. He said most guys have him remove it and run only with the flashed ECU. I explained my concern that I ride in different altitudes and the PCV autotune helps correct this. I also like it as I can tune AFR according to my bike. His answer was "put in a log box and use the autotune software to make a summer or winter map. It's easy"
He let me have a look at how he added/subtracted fuel on my map to make it leaner/richer. Whilst he was flashing it. II haven't seen the autotune software or how it works yet.

My doubts are not so much in the software but more in my own ability. Also is it worth the investment it would be just under $1000, but that's still a fair whack of money. If it was only a small benefit over what I have in the PCV set up.

* Last updated by: untamed on 7/13/2016 @ 11:44 AM *

So here is my 2 cents.

Let me address 2 things. First will be the OP's question "Or am I better off with the PCV and autotune to correct for altitude and climate changes etc?"

Thats really not how it works. First the PCV adds or removes fuel. So if you put a 3 in the box, you get 3% more fuel. The ECU already adjusted the air fuel for elevation/temp/whatever before you hooked the PCV to it, and it will continue to do so + 3% in this example. So stock bikes do not need additional help with altitude adjustments and neither does your modded bike. Those who be fast = do it like this.

You didnt ask but let me go on to say that I was the worst offender of using the AutoTune module incorrectly years ago. Romans has a post somewhere on how to properly use the Autotune to create a map that is very enlightning. Its not a plug it in and forget about it thing. Thats what the marketing would make you believe and lots of folks use it that way, but unless you want a map that is only good by perception, this will not deliver results. An Autotune is properly used to build a good map using particular methodoligies and then press the freeze button once you get it how you like. I will stop here becaue I cant possibly detal it any better than it has already been documented by Romans.

Second, this is my thoughts on which one is the "Best"

The PCV is the best hands down and here is why.

1. How I define best is what combination makes my bike the fastest within the paramaters of the contest. In this case the parameters of the contest would be "fueling for a NA 1441r engine". PCV is the fastest and this is really not debatible unless someone is holding on to slips that they have never posted just waiting for me to eat crow. Can a ECU "Tune" provide sooooo much more? YES! and I have one and I love it! But my fueling "Tune" is in the PCV. My ecu does the fans, the timing, the other magical things that Guhl gave me I probably dont even know about.

2. What makes the PCV better than putting the fueling in the ECU directly is really just one major thing I can think of. I am told (since I have never done an ECU tune myself I am taking information I read from a Brock Davidson post) that the PCV allows you to make a more finely tuned map. The fuel cells are more granular that the capabilities of the ECU even if ever so slightly.

Do I conceed that the average user will be 100% satisfied with a good ECU fuel map? Yes I do. Do I conceed that Woolrich has created a product that rivals the PCV in just about every way and eleminates extra wires and piggybacks and all kinds of pull your hair out how am I supposed to get my hand up in that hole to make that connection type situations..... Yes. Is it the best possible fuel map money can by? No. I will not be sold on that based off the data I have been presented from unimaginable hours of research over the last 5 years. And you have to believe everything you read on the internets so........

* Last updated by: darkarcher on 7/14/2016 @ 6:30 AM *

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