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Thread: Top Triple and Front Wheel Alignment Issue

Created on: 02/29/20 04:58 PM

Replies: 11

BIGO70


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Joined: 09/19/19

Posts: 188

Top Triple and Front Wheel Alignment Issue
02/29/20 4:58 PM

So, I noticed this past fall that I was having issues getting the bike to turn in (to the left) and to hold the line. Had to put a lot of countersteer into it and it still wanted to stand up in the corner.

I made some suspension adjustments ( set sag, compression, rebound, etc...) hoping that the issue would be resolved . No luck.

So I took some measurements from the a fixed location on the triple to a fixed location on the tank to get that part squared up and true. All good.

However, when I took measurements at the front wheel, they were off.

I picked a fixed point on the fairing ( where the blinker meets the fairing) and a fixed point on the tire ( one of the rain sipes located exactly in the middle of the tire).

What I discovered is that with the top triple square and true the front wheel is actually off 10mm to the right if sitting on the bike. ! I have no idea how much different that figure would be if I had actually measured from the triple or steering tube.

So, my front wheel is actually pointing to the right even though my top triple is squared up and pointing dead center.

If I take my hands off of the bars the bike still tracks in a straight line.

So, it looks like I'll have to loosen up the pinch bolts on the lower triple, the fender and the axle and hopefully get everything to line back up.

No idea what caused it ????????


* Last updated by: BIGO70 on 2/29/2020 @ 5:13 PM *

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cruderudy


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Location: AMR

Joined: 08/15/12

Posts: 1963

RE: Top Triple and Front Wheel Alignment Issue
03/01/20 12:36 AM

Hub is the subject matter expert so hopefully he will comment.

Seems either the top or the bottom clamp is bent or one tube is positioned differently than the other in height. Think spec is something like .8 or 1 inch at the top of the tube cap. Check the diagram in the service manual. I move my height up and down after clamps are loose with a floor jack/board under the oil tank and a rubber mallet to tap tube top down. Pretty simple actually.



Perfectly Set up '06 dead and gone
New BBW '14 14R

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BIGO70


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Joined: 09/19/19

Posts: 188

RE: Top Triple and Front Wheel Alignment Issue
03/01/20 8:06 AM

The tubes appear to be the same height in the top triple.

It'd take a massive hit to bend the triples. I believe they are cast aluminum so they'd probably crack before they would bend. The fork would most likely bend first.

Looks like I'll just loosen everything up and and then tighten it back down.

Since you have already adjusted your tubes, what plastics need to come off to gain access to the lower triple bolts?

Looks like the inner cowling plastic at the minimum.

Also, looks like there is going to be issue getting to the upper triple bolts also. Appears that there is some kind of wiring at the switch gear limiting access. ???????????

Hopefully I won't have to loosen the upper triple but just in case.


Thanks

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BIGO70


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Joined: 09/19/19

Posts: 188

RE: Top Triple and Front Wheel Alignment Issue
03/01/20 9:21 AM

Well, the first place I started was the front wheel.

Loosened everything up and tightened back.

Everything now appears to be in spec!

Won't know for sure until i take it for a ride later today.

Fingers crossed.

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13710

RE: Top Triple and Front Wheel Alignment Issue
03/01/20 9:40 AM

I don't know about expert, I just look at the shop manual and then think out of the box from there. Book abstract is very short where I explain what the book does not:
Fork: If I look at the leg, it's machined to the size of the lower triple stem. If I look below the pinch point, they machined it down to lighten the part. So I can't move below that point or I pinch air basically. Therefore, I am stuck in that pinch range. The book says to move the leg up out of the top crown so many millimeters. If I look at the designed part I am handcuffed to the stem's pinch point, cough, a c-hair or two [up] before you go into the range of the air pinch.

In other words, I float the second leg to the static spin of the axle. I do not want friction dragging thru the floating fork's pinch hole. I find that sweet spot when all is buttoned down at the lower stem's pinch bolts. I then lower the top crown over the the two legs and threaded stem. This tells me the whole front end is bent-free when the top crown drops down at those 3 points.

Where are we at so far? The problem bike has yet to be disassembled, so I take a straw, cut it in half, then the slider is split down the middle some and trombone that puppy between the fork and disc. Tape it so it's set from moving. Go to the other side and see if it wants to collapse the straw or it matches the other side. Was the wheel flipped, or bike dropped/crashed, not OEM wheels/forks?

Now that the measurement was taken before removing the wheel, the axle float is obtained, we now remove the top crown and stem ring-nuts. The whole front end comes off with less parts removed. No muscle, then it's one part at a time lining up said axle to lower stem.

The inspection now is to inspect and service the front end steering bearings. We are looking for indented races, not shadow wear. Say the legs are out of the stem, and the top crown. With the locking ring off, hand tighten the loading ring-nut so the stem is sort of tight but can swing. An indented race is when you can move the lower crown and the stem locks to center and won't swing in one smooth lock to lock at the stoppers.

Top Crown:
The races pass inspection and lower forks have not been moved in the lower crown. You saved a step is all with lining up the axle. So by hand, you are going to load the first ring-nut down on the balls and races. There is no bind, nor can you feel it knock back and forth kind of tightened down. So as sloppy is the ring over those stem threads,the stem is pulled up, remember, so you may bind the balls and lose the smooth [effortless] swing. Remember to factor that in on nut torque.

The top crown nut is somewhere over 50ftlb. Once that is achieved, move the front end and test for that sweep. Now tighten the pinch bolts. When all is set and done, you still pick up the axle and check for float. Front axle torque is the same as the rear... like 92ftlb. I go by hand and let the axle pinch bolts do their thing. When the top crown stem nut needs tightening, I think 'for every action' I keep the top crown's pinch bolts loose. If I run a tight top crown pinch on one side, and low stem pinch on the other, I lose the float on the lock down. That's why I can remove the whole fork assembly w/lower stem.

This takes care of the front end being square to the neck. Now for the rear end. Figure the machining is as square as possible being a production unit, so you run the threads of the rear axle adjusters into the swingarm all the way. Just equally snug the the nut up the adjuster bolt and magic mark the bolt's flat that faces you square in the face. Equally count the flats so you are in the ballpark like the front end float.

Screw all the string shit, laser that, 2x4 this is jump on the bike and field test the static rebuild.

Tires:
Are we 42 psi front and rear? My tire profile is not a friction dragging U... or mixed pressures where I am half U and half V. I am full knife blade V fore and aft.

Next is the phantom front tire step. You can't see it on some front tire profiles, but it's there. Take a paper cup, magic mark one mark on the edge of the cup. Roll the cup's edge like a tire. See how it kind of humps but does not make a full circle, but more it moves like a lot of UUUUUUUUU's and you sort of see a uniform step.

Or move to the rear tire and look at how there is one side that is higher in profile than the other side of the rain groove. Step is at the front, step is at the rear. So what moves forward is:

Front End ~ Is square to the neck or frame.
Swingarm ~ Rear wheel is square to the swing... says the frame is not bent, nor front or rear end parts.
Tires ~ What touches the road is deteriorating at a fast rate and degrades the handling in so many ways.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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cruderudy


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Location: AMR

Joined: 08/15/12

Posts: 1963

RE: Top Triple and Front Wheel Alignment Issue
03/01/20 12:27 PM

dont take any faring off just reach in with a 1/4 ratchet and 10 mm socket to undo the clamp bolts

I set my height at 1.3 in for a bit better turn in.



Perfectly Set up '06 dead and gone
New BBW '14 14R

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20583

RE: Top Triple and Front Wheel Alignment Issue
03/01/20 1:09 PM

What I discovered is that with the top triple square and true the front wheel is actually off 10mm to the right if sitting on the bike. !

Steering is one I would think should be perfectly symmetrical. I've noticed some parts appear symmetrical at a glance but when you look closely, they are not. The meter bracket is one example.

If the front wheel was turned to the right 10 mm with the steering perfectly straight, you'd probably notice that in the bars when you ride in a straight line. Look at the point on top of the ignition. It should be dead center when you're tracking straight. At least my Gen 1 is.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE Now Deceased

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BIGO70


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Joined: 09/19/19

Posts: 188

RE: Top Triple and Front Wheel Alignment Issue
03/01/20 8:31 PM

dont take any faring off just reach in with a 1/4 ratchet and 10 mm socket to undo the clamp bolts

Ahhh, that might do it.

I was attempting to use a 3/8" drive.

I'll keep that in mind for future reference.

Thanks.

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BIGO70


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Joined: 09/19/19

Posts: 188

RE: Top Triple and Front Wheel Alignment Issue
03/01/20 8:33 PM


If the front wheel was turned to the right 10 mm with the steering perfectly straight, you'd probably notice that in the bars when you ride in a straight line.

Yes, that's what got me going down the rabbit hole.

Thanks for all of the information.

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BIGO70


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Joined: 09/19/19

Posts: 188

RE: Top Triple and Front Wheel Alignment Issue
03/01/20 8:47 PM

So, got everything tightened back up and took it for a short ride.

Everything seems OK now.

All the measurements work out and the bike tracks through left handers now.

Appreciate everyone's help.

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cruderudy


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Location: AMR

Joined: 08/15/12

Posts: 1963

RE: Top Triple and Front Wheel Alignment Issue
03/01/20 9:28 PM

Probably need a new front tire now



Perfectly Set up '06 dead and gone
New BBW '14 14R

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BIGO70


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Joined: 09/19/19

Posts: 188

RE: Top Triple and Front Wheel Alignment Issue
03/01/20 9:45 PM

Probably need a new front tire now

Yeah, I thought of that too.

Checked it and all is good.

Good looking out though.

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