I took my bike in a few weeks ago for the first service, and during my conversation with the service manager, an interesting topic was brought up.

The manager said that they don't recommend synthetic oil in the ZX-14R, due to clutch slippage issues.

I know regular automotive oils aren't good for bikes, but she said that even motorcycle synthetics are no good in these bikes. She also said that their in-house record holding land speed busa rider does not use synthetics, as "they cause premature clutch wear and more slippage" and that I should stick with dino oil for the life of the bike.

The questions I have are: 1. is there any basis to these claims? 2. Is this something only for racers, and I'll be ok as a laid-back street rider? and 3. Has anyone run a LOT of miles on synthetic oils and had this issue?

I've always thought synthetics were better for the bike, and the MC additives would make everything ok clutch-wise.

"Has anyone run a LOT of miles on synthetic oils and had this issue?"...51K on my 07...full syn 10/40 Motul from the 3rd change on.NEVER had a clutch issue or lube problem.New bike...2012...owner's manual.Oil list in there to use for the 2012 zx14R motorcycle.FULL SYN...on at least ONE oil to use.From the beginning.I waited 85 miles to change to full syn 10/40.At 1200 miles...went to 10/40 Motul 3100V...dino oil.No special reason...just for my own test.So far...just fine.Next change...maybe back to full syn IDK yet.

Full syn's a smidgen more slippery...so MAYBE the reason they put regular dino oil in at first is the way the internals will wear initially.BUT...it could also be....it's cheaper than full syn!That manual says we can use either one...from the beginning.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/19/2012 @ 1:38 AM *

Full syn's a smidgen more slippery...so MAYBE the reason they put regular dino oil in at first is the way the internals will wear initially.

The accepted rumor I've always heard is that they use dino oil for break-in because the synthetic is so slippery that it won't allow rings/bearings to seat properly.

250 = 50/50 syn/tilla
640 = same/same
890 = 10w30/50w
1050 = same/same
1340 = straight 15/30 Delo

Did the syn slip? Yes
Did the compression remain high through its service life @ 25K with 220 psi. Book spec is a high of 228 to 145 psi. Under 145 psi rebuild. Over 228 psi, decarbon.

I call; Bee You'll Shit. Now, go tell/ask her about compression on the Bee You'll Shit.

* Last updated by: Hub on 4/19/2012 @ 1:59 AM *

You know...from day one with my zzr1200,on to my zx12,to my 07 14,and now with this bike....I've really stayed with the recommended oils that are in the manual(s).I've never had one issue with anything pertaining to bearings,rings,anything...All my bikes ran extremely well...I tried a few off brand expensive oils/syns...but always came back to Kawasaki oils.I get the best performance and best engine 'sounds'/clutch action using this brand.IDK...I can't recommend anything else really...cause I just don't know of anything better...This phrase in the Manual..."Kawasaki oils are specifically engineered and designed for your new Kawasaki Motorcycle"...IDK...that phrase has always stuck with me in a good way....corny I know...but....and I understand they WANT you to buy their products...but still....I've had excellent results over the years.

It is VERY possible that Kawasaki really DID produce a particularly special formulation for use in their motors...specifically for their motors.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/19/2012 @ 2:35 AM *

My mech also mentioned possible clutch issues, apparently if your not going to flog your bike a good quality mineral or semi synthetic oil designed for m/cycles is quite suitable for the job. But there will be many who will disagree with that statement, so my suggestion is use what you or your trusted mechanic think is right, for what you use your bike for???
My 2 cents

Neil

There is very much misinformation regarding lubrication among the maintenance profession. Much of this misinformation comes from years of stories and anecdotal evidence based on a lack of understanding.

The frictional characteristics of a lubricant are far more related to the additive base of a finished product than it is to the feedstock used to suspend the additive base. The base fluid makes up approximately 80% of the finished product with the remaining 20% being detergents, anti-wear, anti-oxidant and frictional modifiers. Unfortunately, the terminology used in the marketing of lubricants tends to confuse the unknowing consumer which leads to the common hearsay that we see so often on the internet.

Synthetic fluids simply offer a higher viscosity index. This means they're more stable and by requirement are more pure. Synthetic fluids are not from refined crude although we often see refined crude products marketed as synthetic because they perform very well.

The API 1509 (engine oil licensing and cert system) defines the requirements of base oil categorization. Here are the basics:

Group 1 mineral oils will have: sulfur weight >.03%; viscosity index between 80-119 and a saturate rate <90%
Group 2 mineral oils will have: sulfur weight <=.03%; viscosity index between 80-119 and a saturate rate >=90%
Group 3 mineral oils will have: sulfur weight <=.03%; viscosity index >=120 and a saturate rate >=90%
Group 4 oils are PAO based.
Group 5 covers everything else.

As you can see, nothing about these base fluid requirements has any affect on the frictional characteristics of the lubricant. The frictional characteristics are affected by the additives that are added to this base fluid. To make a blanket statement that synthetic fluids cause clutch slippage is foolish without taking into consideration the clutch frictional material, the oil feed rate, the clutch spring rates and of course the temperature variable that is most impacting.

Oils that are named "synthetic blend" or "semi-synthetic" are produced for the benefit of getting a higher viscosity index by blending a lower index fluid (Gp.1) with a higher index fluid (Gp3,4 or 5) for a more stable basestock without the expense of using a high VI fluid exclusively. Because the Viscosity Index relates solely to the viscosity-temperature characteristic of the fluid, this is how fluid stability is determined.

Bottom line is that the base fluid is NOT the determining factor to clutch slippage. Also, simply claiming a higher base fluid API group does not guarantee better performance.

* Last updated by: Fowvay on 4/19/2012 @ 8:21 AM *

What you seem to forget about oil servicing is the other filter cleaner. The air cleaner is equally important. What goes thru the filter is sucked into the engine. No matter how you look at it, throw in a handful of clump on the side of the road, drop it into the cylinder and now fire it off.

Can you visually see the score marks on the up and down movement? No matter the size, you have to exaggerate the microns to sand, to was once a rock. Every scratch down the cylinder wall adds up like a rock. Every time the compression builds, it pushes down those hairline scrubs.

The crosshatch finish is paramount. The trick is to cut the manual in half are the service intervals. That means the oil is high maintenance, plus the air cleaner change is how to obtain a high'er compression engine. My goof on your ass is the blending of the blending all kinds of oil flavors. I sport a higher level of compression; maintaining the oil and air quality.

Bottom line, you feel the shift of the transmission change. If not, start to sense it on the next oil change. Then feel the plush clicks. Then(?), begin to feel it drag and fall out of gear. You more or less are on the brisk to sense that CHANGE, btw-wink-wink. Some will attest to a dramatic switchearoo to the toe stab and how well just an oil change; changes the gearbox significantly, if not dramatically. Like driving a 'Dramatic'

When that stab happens to sour, I change out the oil. When it does occur, it seems to average out at around 2,700k [+/- a few hundred miles] is when my toe seems to say, 'Dump it.'

Full syn's a smidgen more slippery...so MAYBE the reason they put regular dino oil in at first is the way the internals will wear initially.

AFAIK, synthetic is no more slippery but it stays slippery much longer. I have used Rotella synthetic recently. Fresh dyno oil is just as good but it does not maintain a smoothness to the shifting as long as Rotella. One other plus, Rotella synthetic costs about the same as conventional motorcycle oil.

I've repeatedly heard the same thing myself. I won't use any synthetics until a motor has 6000-7000 miles. I'd rather just change the oil more frequently and use conventional because I don't want to risk the one time chance to break in the motor properly.

I think the safest thing is to change oil about every 2000-2500 miles and use conventional motorcycle oil. It will give you peace of mind and I assure you, your motor will run just as quiet and smooth if you change oil often. Try synthetic after the bike has gotten older.

and to think that all this worry with the clutch slipping might could of maybe solved with a stonger set of clutch springs for 20 bucks

So I look at the simple fix 1st and worry bout the rest later

I think I read where the 2012 14's were the synthetic oil problem children amd the 06 thru 11 ZX14's (you know the only good ones so far) were made right without the oil problem.

So I heard...................

Bobby, you shit disturber.

I had 8 qts of the Mobil 1 4T left after I crashed the ZZR 12. It recently went on sale for $9/qt. at O'Reilly's, so I bought another 10. At 4.5 qts per change on the 14, I have 4 oil changes on the shelf, although I will eventually need two more filters (only have 2) I've been using this oil for several years and after a flirtation with Amsoil, I went back to Mobil 1. I saw a slight mileage drop with the Amsoil along with slightly harder shifting. I think it has an additive that makes it cling more than Mobil 1. I remember Lytnin's story of tearing down a ZRX motor whose owner had used Amsoil and not being able to hold onto a part because it was so slippery.

I am using synthetic or semi-synthetic oil in every vehicle I own and if some dealer or supposed 'expert' technician ever told me not to use it, I would turn around and walk away and never go back.

To O'Rileys I must go and shit disturber???????

I am the innocent guy.............

"I think I read where the 2012 14's were the synthetic oil problem children amd the 06 thru 11 ZX14's (you know the only good ones so far) were made right without the oil problem". The only problem mine has had with that synthetic in there...is....she wants to run balls out everywhere she goes!!!!I pity the poor Metzler on there.She's fighting back valiantly however!!!!

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/20/2012 @ 11:29 AM *

(you know the only good ones so far)

I guess I should have mentioned it earlier (brain fart) but the sale at O'Reillys was over April 10.