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Thread: WILL OIL PAN DRAIN IF FILTER REMOVED?

Created on: 09/14/19 04:04 PM

Replies: 7

Rook


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WILL OIL PAN DRAIN IF FILTER REMOVED?
09/14/19 4:04 PM

If I have the crankcase full of oil, can I remove the oil filter without having all oil drain out from the filter port in the oil pan?

According to this diagram, it looks like the oil from the pan has to go up the oil pickup to the pump and from there, the oil goes through the oil pipe to the filter. From the filter, the oil goes to the pressure sensor, oil cooler and engine.

I don't see how any oil from the oil pan could come out of the oil filter port even if the filter were to be removed. The oil from the engine, oil pump and oil cooler will partially drain but that happens any time you remove the filter.

If I drain oil and fill the crankcase now can I change the filter later when it comes in the mail? ---or will all my fresh oil drain out when I take off the old filter?



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cruderudy


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RE: WILL OIL PAN DRAIN IF FILTER REMOVED?
09/14/19 6:00 PM

Is the window oil level above or below the oil filter port? IDK for sure but it seems like the pan/pump/crankcase and clutch housing are filled to the level in the window.

just my worthless opinion - you could be right though, video it for us when you pull the filter with a full load



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Hub


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RE: WILL OIL PAN DRAIN IF FILTER REMOVED?
09/14/19 7:43 PM

Oil is sucked up the 'oil screen'. The next arrow, meaning, the horseshoe arrow depicting flow, shows it comes out of the 'oil screen' and into to 'oil pump' blades. Then out to the 'oil pipe'. So the answer is no... the oil will not come out of the engine if you remove the filter with a full engine case of oil. The pump blades hold the oil back when the engine is not turning the pump.



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piken


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RE: WILL OIL PAN DRAIN IF FILTER REMOVED?
09/14/19 8:41 PM

Use clean oil pan and what ever comes out, pour it back in.

Or.....

Wait for the filter.

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Rook


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RE: WILL OIL PAN DRAIN IF FILTER REMOVED?
09/15/19 10:48 AM

the answer is no... the oil will not come out of the engine if you remove the filter with a full engine case of oil.

Thanks, Hub. I was hoping you'd reply to this.

Yeah the oil will not come up the tube and out of the pan. All oil will drain down from the oil pipe and you will loose prime but that happens any time the filter is removed.

Use clean oil pan and what ever comes out, pour it back in.
Or.....
Wait for the filter.

"Wait for filter" could mean, "loose last 60° day of the year before storage". I hate storing with condensation with a passion.

I think the best thing to do is to change both the filter and the oil while hot on a warm, dry day. Unfortunately, no filter and I can't count on a it being warm by the time it gets here.

So maybe change oil, install filter later, circulate oil if and when it does warm up for a day or two and then let it sit. I'd rather store with old oil in the motor than store with condensation.


* Last updated by: Rook on 9/15/2019 @ 10:48 AM *



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Hub


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RE: WILL OIL PAN DRAIN IF FILTER REMOVED?
09/15/19 8:43 PM

Draining overnight so the last drop is out of the engine is now cold. Then starting up the bike to level it off and park it without riding for over 15 minutes, yes, this will induce condensation.

You pour oil in the new filter and let it settle thru the pleats and you fill it more, almost topped off. This way, you're quick on the spin and don't lose so much. Look at the rubber diaphragm in the filter. It's a simple flap that will close those holes so you don't lose prime in the filter cartridge.

Look at the horseshoe [flow] arrow at the oil filter. Out of the 'oil pipe' the pressured oil pushes that rubber diaphragm out of the way. What debris is crushed between the oil blades, [due to suspended shit in the oil], that debris is going to be caught between the pleats inside the cartridge. When you cut the filter open, you expose those pleats. Then, take a pair of diagonal cutters, snip both ends and pull the pleats out of the cartridge; then pull the paper apart to see what is being trapped? Thinks like, the factory bolt liquid locking agent, metal high-spots like break-in debris; trans tooth chips, or gear dogs, the gear's edge where the dog meets that recess, and crank/rod inserts so you can see if the plain bearings are hammered by detonation, normal wear, etc.

You change the oil at shorter intervals so this helps from wearing out those oil pump blades. See, when the crush happens, between those pump trochoid gears, the metal compresses both blade contact points; and when the oil is being closed by that blade, an oil [pressure] loss is going out between the depressions.

Say the filter comes, you top it off, you swap it out with the old one, you don't top it off because the riding season is over. First ride, you read your note at the key switch telling you to top it off before you ride. No condensation changing the filter when it comes.



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Rook


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RE: WILL OIL PAN DRAIN IF FILTER REMOVED?
09/16/19 6:57 AM

Look at the horseshoe [flow] arrow at the oil filter. Out of the 'oil pipe' the pressured oil pushes that rubber diaphragm out of the way. What debris is crushed between the oil blades, [due to suspended shit in the oil], that debris is going to be caught between the pleats inside the cartridge. When you cut the filter open, you expose those pleats. Then, take a pair of diagonal cutters, snip both ends and pull the pleats out of the cartridge; then pull the paper apart to see what is being trapped?

Gotta try this some day.


Say the filter comes, you top it off, you swap it out with the old one, you don't top it off because the riding season is over. First ride, you read your note at the key switch telling you to top it off before you ride. No condensation changing the filter when it comes.

Too late. I emptied both bikes yesterday. It was high 70s here although a bit humid from the recent rain. Saw no fog on the oil sight glass with either bike. Screwed in drain plug and let the bike sit a few hours. Came back and unscrewed the plug to let out the last of the oil. Filled both up cold. Cold oil in cold engine = no condensation. Just as long as no moisture condensed during the cool down period. I can't see it if it did.

So now fill a filter and screw it on. I'll run the bike a minute as long as the air temp is 65°. Any condensation and I will just have to go for a long ride to boil it away before winter sets in.


* Last updated by: Rook on 9/16/2019 @ 6:58 AM *



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Rook


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RE: WILL OIL PAN DRAIN IF FILTER REMOVED?
09/19/19 6:56 AM

Oil was drained and crankcase filled a few days ago. Filter was left on, engine was not started.

Last night, 76° F ambient temp, filter removed. Old oil drained out of the filter mount as usual but it did not squirt out. I placed my finger over the hole and then got the new filter screwed on. The new filter had been pre-filled with oil. The oil light went out immediately upon startup. I ran the engine for 1 minute. No condensation visible on sight glass.

Pretty much the same routine for the busa except that one had the oil light on for about 4 seconds at startup. No way around that. The filter is in a very tight spot and hard to get out fast plus the threads on the filter are fine and requires a lot of turns to remove it.

So I tried it and the answer is definitely, NO the oil will not come out of the oil pan if you take the filter off. The oil will drain from the exit side of the oil pump as it always does when you take th filter off. Doesn't matter if there's oil in the pan or not.

Thanks for your inputs fellas!


* Last updated by: Rook on 9/19/2019 @ 6:58 AM *



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