One thing I did do...I stopped(almost completely)looking at the speedo while cornering.This was something Hub mentioned a day or so ago in another thread.So Thanks Hub...your few words about that gave me a nice little tool to work with....my cornering has actually felt better since I stopped doing that.Appreciate it... Even just glancing at it at speed cornering is a distraction I don't want anymore;)

Feels much more safe and natural now than it did....

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/10/2013 @ 3:32 PM *

If you rent a track bike here all gauges are covered with tape. Keeps students from looking at gauges. More focus on riding. Hub be knowing dis

"One thing I did do...I stopped(almost completely)looking at the speedo while cornering.This was something Hub mentioned a day or so ago in another thread.So Thanks Hub...your few words about that gave me a nice little tool to work with....my cornering has actually felt better since I stopped doing that.Appreciate it... Even just glancing at it at speed cornering is a distraction I don't want anymore;)

Feels much more safe and natural now than it did...

Looking at the speedo while cornering!! For what reason? It sounds so counter intuitive, ESPECIALLY on the road where you've got oncoming traffic, cats eyes and all the usual road crap/debris to contend with. I just can't imagine why you would want to look anywhere except the corner exit. Like firing a gun without looking at the target. JMO

Well...not exactly like watching it....but glancing at it a couple of times in a turn.Not twisty stuff...big fast sweepers and such.I guess what I was trying to get in my head was a speed of velocity and tire grip,stuff like that.Normally,I've already checked up ahead while approaching a big turn,and noticed if there's anything in the road or whatever.You have to do that when they repair roads with tar snakes....longitudinal ones anyway.Don't want to hit a big long one leaned in at triple digits if possible.Makes for a shitty ride.

Reading a corner at speed is a learned skill, practice, practice and more practice to hone the hand/eye coordination. Another thing that helps is weaving or rolling the bike from left edge to right edge of the tire when doing a long, boring, straight section of road. It helps get your confidence level up that you can make a rapid flick into a full lean and nail your corner entry point. Rapid steering input (countersteering)is one of the first things they work on at the California Superbike School with new students. Also keeps your tires from squaring off in the middle. My tires are still round even when worn down so that handling doesn't change as tires wear.

Another cool technique is to pick imaginary turn in points on the road ahead, a tar ribbon or dark spot etc. on the road surface ahead is your flick point. It trains your brain to continually pick up road surface variations and becomes almost second nature after awhile. This could save your butt in a corner if sand, gravel or whatever should suddenly appear while you're in a lean. You'll instinctively make a subtle steering input to miss the road hazard rather than go into panic mode and trigger a survival reaction like nailing the brakes.

After doing this for awhile, you'll notice an increase in corner entry speed as you become more relaxed snapping the bike hard over. Don't do this around cars, you might scare them or attract unwanted attention from a LEO.

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Setting appropriate corner entry speed before entering the corner is crucial, as soon as you nail the speed, flick it in and get back on the gas to stabilize the suspension, roll the throttle on smoothly and continuously and the bike settles down on it's suspension. Watch the pros, they're trail braking the front brakes into the corner, easing off the front brake as they roll into maximum lean and then rolling the throttle back on smoothly reaching maximum throttle as they lift the bike vertical and hit the fat part of the tire. They never coast and everything is smooth as silk, the suspension loves it!

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"have to do that when they repair roads with tar snakes....longitudinal ones anyway.Don't want to hit a big long one leaned in at triple digits if possible.Makes for a shitty ride."

By "tar snakes" I 'm assuming you mean the 2-3" wide strip of shiny tar they seal the patches with. We call it "over banding" over here and it's a nightmare in the wet. I don't know how they get away with using it. You're absolutely right, avoid these strips like the plague.

I may glance at the gauges before turning in, mostly to make sure I'm in the right gear and the motor is turning in the lower end of where power comes on. This keeps the rear wheel traction at a good level and turning on the throttle when you come out, there's less risk of wheelspin from turning too much rpm or running wide from being in too high a gear going in.

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speedos are for obeying the speed limits,ears are for listening to the mtr when misbehaving

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Thanks greenie with a GREEN. I can tell by your lines you are wondering and not really finding a line or 'The Line.'

Like firing a gun without looking at the target. JMO

That says it all right there. You are looking so far down range, you are picking them off way up ahead. DARE is TIMING ~ SMOOTHING and year done. So that takes years of trackday or club racing to get there. Track slows you down. Racing forces you to stand at your target range on the grid somewhere?

They never coast and everything is smooth as silk...

That too says a shell load. The standard is to know your limitations or it's going to bite you. Looking at the speed is the limit. It's back to looking at the gun sight. You more commit to being smooth no matter how much standing down you do to [be safe], but you still have the deer eyes catching your smoothing.

If the mirror wasn't so far out, I'd be closer to the wall. I was late apex'inn the silver car and he followed my line: I was moving that slow before he needed not to move at all but deer'eye'd how smooth I was moving to that wall: where the tire mark goes up it. And how you needle a thread, or aim down that gun sight, it still means a smooth straight line so as not to miss your apex. And the beauty is, I did not splice any speedup of the vid. That 14 squirted thru the traffic as if I did sped up the video. That took more years of timing traffic at speed on a track, you don't want to do dis at home. All the dick is doing is squeezing the throttoe head game and the steering does one smoothemselves out.

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Hey Hub, you use a rubber phallus in some of your videos, what's up with the prop?
Mad love,
Wman

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1. Dickhead is the term as in "You ...!" ~ Passing me like that; talking to me light that; prop pee ganda that.
2. Takes balls to ride hard/fast = She likes it hard and fast. Ask her.
3. Classic phallic symbol as if one has a small (cough to the right) and is left with a large/strong/add the adjectives/symbolic bike? Lacking what? How about just she lacking you over the head with it you come up with some sort of 'why' you have to coin the Freudian slips? They are tiny [exposed] human truths, no? One more human flaw is added to the list.
4. Because in that prop is a joke somewhere. In that prop reps a symbol some fear [are insulted by] it; some laugh at it; who really does the talking you happen to become irrational for a few months; get married; need I say more; oh yeah, hide the kids kind of morality play... Here comes a hubvid?
5. Dickheadivorced and I told you it was irrational to begin with you trying to figure it out.
6. So is dis not universal? How more universal is that which is just a prop in so many ways.

You like it hard and fast, right sweetea?

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Reading the corner, following your line, riding smooth, slow in - fast out are all excellent markers of a seasoned marksmen. Dam, I wish you guys lived closer so I could join you on rides!!!

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@Hub:at faster speeds...almost any really...when I have an oncoming car...I end up glancing at it instead of the road...I don't know why I'm actually doing that..I guess I'm trying to 'anticipate' if they're gonna stay in their lane or whatever.I know it takes away from my focus on the bike...how it feels turning and where it's ultimately heading.I want to go faster...I do.I want to really open her up in the curves and roll hard.But I always hold back some cause I never know when a Highway Patrol is gonna come around that oncoming lane.Mostly two laners here...so if one's coming...he's gonna definitely go right past ya....they know when you're rippin.It's also really hard sometimes to know just how much these tires will hold with.I don't feel concerned at all at 70,80...90...but getting into triples...some of these curves are actually very tight...and lots of times they flatten out at the crown...so you have this length of road(after that)that is still deep in the radius...and you have to 'readjust' kinda with your lane placement and lean and all....either that or drift over the center line....you know what happens then.

I have a video I took on Friday...a fast paced ride on one of my favorite areas to ride....57 miles of hard corners and fast curves and all...only thing is....the road has a bunch(almost all the way along it)frost heaves and that kinda stuff.Or tar snakes....It made the video very vibey looking as opposed to smooth filming.It was a great ride...first one of the season up there...but disappointing with the road being like that....I never just rail really hard on that road the first time of the year...it's ALWAYS different surface wise.I might post it up on youtube...but it awfully hard to watch without feeling...beat up!The bike was smooth...but the cam on the stalk...that's a different story;)

I can see those high speed sweepers, Grn. If the sweeper is turning left, you want to knock off the on coming rear view mirrors, but this is when you have to standown, stay in the middle and then the line is blown, because you needed to slow down and that throws off you exit speed [out] even faster. You cut your speed down and that is where looking way ahead to see if the standown is coming, or you can execute before the car is too close to your apex, and yes, they too could not keep to their right and more drift into your lane.

See, the problem is being either far right or far left. This sets you up as you look way out ahead. If you mounted your cam and face the rear, you can sort of see how you came out of the turn? So the learned part is de-spooking yourself as far as late apexing goes. You are hanging up there for so long till you dive in. Then, you look at how you came out of that turn.

You would then see quite the opposite of what you want to do. Like hanging as close to the guy on the bike [in this vid] is hanging that high up. Go in late, kiss that edge that sticks out, then see how early that would be if you went in there without being late and high.

Early entry you slow down. Late entry you are still on the gas for the last moment. The scary moment. That too says you are too close to the line with oncoming headed your way. The other is the patrol of a main highway or an only canyon in or canyon out: keeps you from hooking a good one.

So the solution to that is trackday. There is this big step from street speed to track speed. You come away and the street now seems more manageable. With trackday, you can follow better riders than you and pick up what they are doing. And when you go around and around the same ribbon over and over again, you'll see that apex coming up.

I'll say 3 [apex] moves are like this.

1. Novices take the short shoot into the apex. That's early braking and early entry.
2. The instructors are throwing X's down on the [track] to show the ideal entry. These are more the basics, which is middle ground.
3. The eyeballs out the head, the back end in the air, or leaving a stripe to slow down is the late apex.

The more you take the curve out of the apex, the more the horizon straightens out? Keeps you on the road, not out in the weeds. Retrain the mind. No gauges. Those are your ears. Speed does not come into it either. It's up ahead, where is it turning and where am I this second? After, you no longer think about it, but smooth it as straight as an arrow.

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It's hard to get the apex right in these big ones...they're usually arced fairly long...and they aren't very wide considering it's mostly two lanes.Difficult to enter 'late'...then swing in and chop the center down...and exit.On my right handers...you see me hugging the line to the right quite often...or the guardrail...or whatever.But the center line...I'm always leery about cutting that one 'down the center'...you can't always tell where that oncomer is gonna go...drift,or follow the line all the way around.So I usually get more corner speed turning to the right than I do to the left...unless I'm on a BIG sweeper and can see all the way down and out to the next curve.It's not really like I can swing wide ,then cut in quick for the apex(but I'll try)...most are so long you have to try your best to get a line going early on in the radius.If that makes any sense.It's RARE here that the road will be totally free of oncomers for any length of time...with the exception of the long curves and 's's...where you can see way down the road.

I'd stay more to the right in a left hander...but the problem is...when approaching the exit and standing the bike back up....you have to be very careful you don't get that itself too early...you can end up drifting to the right...dangerously.If it's an open 's'...those are pretty 'easy' to cut the apexes off and power into the next one.Usually there's no one oncoming...and if there is...you can adjust well before they pass...and still be hammering.

I've been running these roads now since 07....I've got the layouts down pretty good...but there's always that unexpected deal...a deer at the side of the road....something runs across in front of ya.A car drifts over that center line just as you're approaching for a deep lean.There is ALWAYS the concern in the back of your head telling you.."If Bambi jumps out of nowhere...yer done"...and they can be quite invisible along the roadside until you get right up on em...then they spook....usually so fast...yer nailed before you can even react.Most run the opposite way....some just stand there...but you never know really when one's gonna decide"I can beat this thing approaching me"...and they dart right at ya.Course,if yer doin triple digits...you're finished...that's all she wrote.

Happens regularly every year.Usually it's Harleys that get nailed.But I've had some close calls as well.VERY.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/12/2013 @ 1:09 AM *

Can't help looking at on coming traffic at full lean too. I have had too many near misses where an operator inadvertently glided over that yellow solid line while texting, eating, applying makeup etc. Once a female senior citizen (very nice lady - went back to check on her after she collided with a pole) had a minor stroke and came into my lane forcing me to ride up on the side walk to avoid her. It is intuitive to try and predict what the two ton home wrecker has in mind and trying to anticipate their moves is the key to survival. I fear if I stop anticipating and just keep riding like they are not there, our life span is at risk.

Hub baby, TRACK, definitely think that too, bro!

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Went out today after work...to 'practice' what Hub was saying...I don't think I looked at the speedo one time;)And I really tried to enter the corner later...and then pick the straightest route to cut off that apex...and straighten er back up.A various speeds....I was entering I feel a bit slower doing that...but I was able to get on the gas at the approaching apex and power out fairly good...,These big turns...they have a pretty even Radius...and with one lane...it's kinda hard to stay 'wide' and then shoot in for the cut...but I was getting it...it felt good.Left plenty of room during the 'straightening' to nip the apex line,then get over away from oncoming traffic...when there was some.Thanks again Hub...I'll keep trying this.I was also able to feel more comfortable keeping my eyes up ahead instead of looking at the oncomers....that felt pretty cool as well...stayed focused with my line and all...and was able to get a better perspective of the road well ahead.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/12/2013 @ 9:52 PM *

As soon as the pavement warms up Hub, (it is 4 - 8cel) currently I am going to try this high arch cornering.
In theory, when I think about it, it has to work.
Ride hard brothers!!!

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This high arch lining or cornering needs all 3 combosmoothing effect. If you been reading my lines in a pun way and now the highways. This is what I do is combine the 3 ingredients and you lay INN the filling. I've spent my share of motel6 is and fleabag beds to come away with at least something out of trackday diving back then [there wasn't too much].

That's all I was doing. Figuring out this stuff when there was no Keith code schools [you should take advantage of]. Reggie has school. His son has school. I sure as heck can't tell you how to take a line? I'm just figuring out this on my own. I take unorthodox lines so I was more showing you the 3 mixes and I have no clue if that is even right, but it seems to work for me.

I have this slow/fast video I can watch as how I take a line. What I see is me hugging the line or trying to get back to a line on the high arch: late lining the thing if you will. The standown parts are the bike riders, the who is behind this bend, I'll stay here until then and oh, I take this line out.

And I see the 'butter' part about spreading the energy out. Like fanning out the exit, have enough road to fan the next line is to come back to the line you should be setting up for. That part says, I'll draw this S, make the ribbon into a lot of S's, not stand the bike up I'm going to miss the next line? It was ribbon practice, not cut and snip that angle.

I'm sitting in back of a car that is doing the speed limit, so I am lining what limit of speed I have. Last thing I want to do is limit out and break over the line. Maybe a reflector was banged on or two, or this suspension would hammer that camera even more. I had the car in back of me on my ass: me giving distance to the car in front. So here is a car you'd thing would catch up, follow me in? Blew him away each time I hooked up a corner, you hear the electronics or the digital, hammer the camera's digital in the audio/video capture.

This is the same video tweaked up a notch in speed. I'm now looking at the yellow and white lines watching how smooth I cando the, 'Snake Dance The S Is Fandango.' The real time speed shows me how I keep trying to stay as high a line till the end and that apex is late. So I am already lined up for the next line to hug to, stay late with, keep kissing her at the door is knock-knock, who's dare?

Then you notice how late that line was, the slingshot down that line, the guy sees me coming on the 'downhill' with some hook to it. He'scared shitless I'm going to hit his car that straight a line... Get it? I'm trying to time that guy before he shows up at the apex. The stanDOWN is now 50/50. Poor guy would have knocked out his front end and that was a 4-buy.

That's why the standown is so important. I'm swinging 'down' between rail, bike/bicycle, mud, bend, truck coming, more bicycle rider, the pusher in the back all this time, and me after that line before the 4x4 eats a wheel HUB.

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Gotta say...I would not be wanting to go balls out on that road on a 14.No way.Brisk pace...ahh...maybe...that thing is quite narrow.And lots of blind curves there...you be careful up there;)Looks very similar to the Ortegas in Elsinor.That's another road that a guy can get hurt on really quick if he aint 'careful'.These big 14's...they have a lot of mass rolling....hard to get that flicked around...at least for me anyway.

You can see in my vids...the roads are really quite different in radius's and all that.Make for big speed....transitions are a lot less 'intense'...which can be deceiving as well.You can get in over yer head on these roads if yer not paying attention.I've definitely had some pucker moments thinking all was cool.=0

Then there's always the 'WTF..deer in the road' scenario...kinda messes up yer rhythm...sometimes that's a good thing;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/14/2013 @ 11:36 AM *

This is the same road I tested my 15AFR [video] while chasing that vette. That's why I asspuckered later once I saw the speedo I never watched. Because, those [same] lines were coming up [much different], much faster than following behind someone at the speed limit. I asspuckered in the computer chair watching the speedo. That's where I sort of mentioned not to look at the speedo or I'll ruin the line: the concentration to stay focused somewhat.

Deceiving is an understatement. Remember Frenchie? He trackday'd and then his mountain sweepers were right on the money. He would take your territory real smooth like. That's what I've noticed. He improved, became smoother, faster. Before that, I'll take a guess he wasn't introduced to closed course before that. I think it helped somewhat is my guess?

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...this really is foolish...IMO...I could never ride my 14 like this...no way.Scarey to me just to watch.

"ride my own ride" comes to mind here;)

Those guys on the Ortegas...IDK...I've been up there...riding...on my Harley(way back when)...just insane what the sportbikers were riding like....there's fatalities up there all the time.Usually the 1000's and such.They just go nutso there...your vid there looks awfully similar...geez...be careful.And yeah...I need to take my own 'concern' as well...moreso methinks!This bike is in a class by itself...it just won't do what those R-1's and 900's and such will do.Easy to think it can....

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/14/2013 @ 12:09 PM *

Dis is where Cody comes out of the trousers and says, 'A man house gut to know his limiTTastes like?' Foolish yes, but the boy made a mistake. Say he met his limit?

Closed track gives you confidence out in the streets/highways. And you know it's all about bike upset, line lost, brain fade = Trashed Trousers!

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Yeah...I can see your point...no way can you push anywhere near the bike's limits on the street.Just too damn iffy.That guy got really lucky not gettin himself killed.No tracks here...anywhere close.I'm just gonna have to do with what I have...and stop being stupid.I take too many chances as it is.I keep telling myself that...but when I get out there on those big curves and stuff...this bike feels so controllable...and strong...it's REALLY hard to resist.I'm actually doing better though at restraining myself...not much...but better.Your cornering advice has slowed me up a bit...and made me more conscious of technique over speed.I feel good about that;)I noticed it right away after you said don't look at the speedo...so I haven't been....barely I should say.Not in the corners anyway.

I think one of the really cool things about this bike...you don't have to be rolling triple digits to get a serious fun time out of the day's riding...at certain speeds...this bike is incredibly user friendly in turns and such.Makes for a really satisfying experience...corny...probably...but who cares?

There's plenty of great corners here that a guy can roll into and catch everything just right and not be going 150 mph.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/14/2013 @ 12:34 PM *