I noticed I am getting pinging/engine knock when running uphill around 50 mph, 4th gear or so. I guess premium is not the same at all suppliers. Has anyone noticed this?

I haven't noticed anything like that but yep I would give some other gas a try.

50 in 4th is low up a hill. Try 3rd nextime.

Yeah, but the motor should not ping... I'll try the name brand next.

I drag race with 87 octane. Zero problems ever. You guys are being super anal about the whole "only premium for my bike" spill. Less power with premium fuel.. no thanks.

Has anyone noticed this?

Yes. Yes I have.

Click here for valve rattle

* Last updated by: hagrid on 1/19/2014 @ 8:06 PM *

I have to say...running 87 in my bike(s) always produced less power.IDK....strange but true.

Proven fact on dynos over and over again that 93 will absolutely produce less power. Placebo effect. Brock Davidson is a leader in the drag racing sport and will confirm that this is true with hard data. A slower burn rate will result in less power produced. Remember that octane rating is a fuel's RESISTANCE to detonation. 12.3:1 compression is actually not that radical in the world of motorcycle racing. But hey... Better do what that there sticker says on your tank. I wonder if that's a RON or MON rating that we are abiding by? I couldn't blame anyone for erring on the side of safety with the extra octane rating. Miss that 2-3 HP? I think not... But hey.. I would notice it on my time slip. See what I mean?

91 here.I know this subject has been raised before...hear almost always the same thing...which isn't bad mind you...but mine did run stronger(and does)on 91.IDK why...but she does.Maybe it's the altitude?IDK.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 1/19/2014 @ 11:49 PM *

I accidentally put 87 in my bike once, made horrible noises around 50mph at lower RPM's, but not lagging low. ran that out, put in higher octane no more noise. Just my personal experience.

If you are using Shell, that gas is crap in my opinion. Almost every vehicle I used it in pinged and smelled like sulfur.Just my .02.

Mad

If you are using Shell, that gas is crap in my opinion.

I ran exclusively costco gas. When I pulled the bodies, I could see down the port and the carbon build behind the intake. I ran shell because they like chevron claim a cleaning agent. Next pull of the bodies, the carbon was gone!

Do I knock? Yeah, maybe I stall the engine start it and I may have the throttle a bit open. That's lean and the pressure at the intake sensor. I get a knock. I run F-off, I don't hear pings, this or that, because the combo is low rpm/high vacuum in/too low of a gear = Cause a good ping combo.

Unfortunately, we don't really know we are getting premium when we pay for it, drivers of tankers dump regular gas in the premium tank at some stations, not just off brands, my friend used to work at a Mobil when we were younger, and he said it happened at the station he worked at ....

Can't the ECU compensate to some extent for detonation ?

That would be the job of a knock sensor. I don't think our bikes are equipped with one. My old 98 Eclipse would record knock events for me so I could determine if I needed more octane, less boost, more efficient intercooler, etc... Basically the ECU would start to pull timing to save the motor after X amount of knock events had been recorded.

Can't the ECU compensate to some extent for detonation ?

The manual says use premium, so I do that. Does regular make more power? Maybe, but 180 hp or so is plenty for me. Plus I get the peace of mind of not worrying about holing a piston while I'm out on the road somewhere.

When you race, you give in to the idea of the occasional teardown just to see what's going on so you can compensate and replace things BEFORE they disintegrate so the whole motor doesn't get lunched. I have no plans on doing a teardown before it gets 150K or so on the clock and starts to lose compression.

I have been racing with 87 for 5 years. That octane level is completely safe for the amount of compression that our bikes have. Hell MR12 is THE most popular fuel amongst drag racers of every level. Rookie through professional guys run this stuff with phenomenal results. Guess what octane this "RACE" fuel is? 87! O noes.. We gonna blows up our motor..

"That octane level is completely safe for the amount of compression that our bikes have."

That's what I was thinking, because I ran 87 a lot inn my busa for 10 years, never had a problem, now I know the 14R has a higher compression than a first gen busa, but it's not that much higher, the first gen was 11.0:1 and the 14R is 12.7:1 or 12.1:1 ... I think I'm going to run a couple gallons of the 87 or even mid grade, just to see if I hear any detonation ....

The way the ignition changes with the engine parameters on our bikes...at the ECU...I think(don't know)that the mfg's have already calibrated the timing and such to run in virtually all conditions with 91.I'm not saying it won't run right or anything with a lower octane...but there IS a reason Kawi stickered "91" on that tank.I would guess they would have stated '87 or higher' had they truly intended the owner to run 87.They're pretty anal you know.They pride themselves in a bike's longevity...even says so in the manual."minimum"...that's what it says.Just like the plugs and everything else in there....they state the optimum parts for the particular area...and you can go with it...or not.There really isn't a solid way to check the outcome of an owner using things that he just chooses to...so trying to compare one bike to another would be useless.(over time)....Hub mentioned halving the scheduled maintenance things(Plugs,filters,oil)chain cleaning...that stuff...and I think it's a great idea.How many do that religiously?Probably not too many(out of the multitudes around the world that own these bikes).87 octane if I recall has damaged fuel lines and such over time more quickly than any other fuel type.In cars that is.IDK about zx14's.....I'll stay with 91....anyone can argue whether this or that does or doesn't make a difference...but the manual IS the guide...no pinging with mine so far with 91.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 1/20/2014 @ 10:24 PM *

I refilled the tank with 5 gallons of 91 from a different source, ran up a 2,000 foot (elevation gain) steep climb today with no problems. I may play with the mid-grade next. I never heard it before, it was a single tank from some no-name gas station. Interesting point on the 87 grade. I'll have to experiment.

You keep saying go right by the manual and stay on your Ps and Qs and you've flashed your ECU? Like I said earlier this won't matter to a rider who can't fully harness this bike's power anyways. A racer's input is definitely not the most popular here.

Well, Maverick, let me add my vote to the popularity of your opinion! Heh,hheh.

My fuel of preference is 87 octane. No flash yet on my ecu. I've said it before and I say it again, my machine loves 87 octane as long as the weather isn't extreme hot!

Air temperatures of 90 (or 95-105 degrees F for sure) require higher octane in my experience to keep running without
clatter or ping under high load. Of course the load can be kept down by running lower gear but even then the response (by seat of pants dyno) is not as crisp in high temperatures on the lower octane stuff.

Bike is 2012 ZX-14R, now with 2 bro's carbon exhaust, but have run it in high temps with original exhaust and the 2 bro's with same effect. (As a side issue, with the 2 bro's exhaust, my bike leaves a cloud of sweet smelling fumes behind it for my fellow riders to enjoy; they all tell me this. I just tell them to stay ahead of me, then, LMAO.....as if!)

Now when the temperatures are just warm to down right cool, hells bells, look out.... on that 87 octane! If this effect is psychological as some may want to say, I need more of that psychoactive drug. I thinks the machine even sounds differently under those conditions than on the 93+ octane blend.

Now, 91 octane is another matter; I can see how Green may get best runnings on 91 out there in the high plains.
My bike likes 91 octane and I will run it if its available. Often I mix some 87 and 93 from refill to refill here in my area in deep summer and warmer temperatures with good result.

But when the weather turns cool, its gotta be 87!

Cheers.

A racer's input is definitely not the most popular here.

I don't know about that? That's where I get my info from. Race coverts to street. It's a trickle down effect, no? Race goes into production bikes? Race figures out 87 is not coated with octane so it takes 'time' to start the firing point, were less octane makes the gas less stable and can firer 'sooner' is all about Time, i.e., make the event happen sooner.

Knocking is X meets Y = Knock. So you have to make or force the knock to happen. That means, heavy load vs. low rpm. The ECU cannot wipe out the x meets y. That part needs a knock sensor so it curves the ignition back. Knock is a harmonic so that sensor senses in milliseconds and curves the ign back: it's that fast between the monic an curve.

"A racer's input is definitely not the most popular here"...no way Mav...good to know other ways of doing things.We all treat our bikes differently.Post up what ya want;).I've run 87 a few times...didn't feel quite as 'edgy' as the higher octane(s)...but sa'll good.

The 'cold vs hot' temps...I've never actually tried with 87 and/or 91...well...91...yes...but 87...no.I could give er a try....why not?It only really gets in the 90's here for about 2 weeks...then it's back down to upper 70's.I have have a flashed ECU...the timing curves...that I don't know...I think they've been adjusted for the flash performance.I guess it's possible I wouldn't really notice much difference now?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 1/21/2014 @ 11:22 AM *

I have experienced the same pinging problem with my ride recently. With a little help from friends on here I'm working through it. My scenario is that it happened only this one night last week. I usually run 98 RON premium fuel. It was cooler weather previously and had never happened before. I loaded it up a little at about 55 MPH in 5th and I got the "BB in a soda can" rattle. I repeated it a few times to be sure I was hearing right. My feeling so far is maybe a crap tank of fuel, and it was a hot night with a pillion on board. I'm trying a few things to track it down, and will report if I work it out.
As for opinions.... they're all valid. That's what makes this forum so valuable. Keep it rolling guys. It's all good information that helps track down problems and improvements. With enough information, any problem can be worked through. Thanks to all that help and provide input.