Why ride a 14 instead of a liter bike? Sounds like a new topic but I get asked all the time on twisty rides. It's way big and heavy compared to the rest. It does seem like the truth for that kind of riding but in the back of my mind I always think of raging down the straights and not having to wait for the power band to kick in. The liter crowd says my bike can keep up in a roll on so what is the diff? Well some comfort super stability at high speeds maybe and low end grunt. Sound valid?
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Kawnaw, I'm fortunate to have a couple of literbikes, a 600 and a 14 in my stable right now so I can give you a pretty decent, unbiased comparo. I try to get out at least once a week and do a couple hundred miles in the twisties, same roads, different bikes so I get a good feel for how they compare. The 14 is agile for a big bike and super stable in the high speed stuff, just keep that front tire pressure up or it will feel like your pushing a lead sled through the low speed corners. There is whole lot more difference between riders than there is between the bikes I ride, at least on the road, all can be ridden fast, just a bit different technique required. Now, I'm talking corners here since any dingaling can go fast in a straight line. The 600 and liters are more forgiving if you blow your corner entry speed, the 14 has more mass so you gotta nail your speed down a little closer. The 14 has such amazing torque, you can be in the wrong gear and still accelerate hard coming off the corners. It all comes down to knowing the bike. I'd feel just as comfortable going on a fast group road ride with the 14 as any of the others. Tracks going to be different, the abrubt direction changes and max braking and accleration are going to play into the hands of the lighter, lower inertia bikes. The 14s extra weight is going to really wear you out, not saying you couldn't set the bike up to cut some quick laps but it's going to take a lot more work.

Bottom line, the 14 has way more comfort, effortless speed, more stability at high speed if thats your thing and the bike has incredible road presence. My liters and 600 don't even get a sideways glance at Starbucks but the 14 commands attention with it's steroidal looks. You can hustle it through the corners but you have less room for error with your corner entry speed. Payback is on corner exit where you can get really lazy and still smoke the tires. One more thing, you can ground the footpegs on the 14 if you get crazy with your lean angles, even with the curb feelers removed. It's harder to do on the smaller bikes but I have touched down on the CBR a few times.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 11/1/2010 @ 6:52 AM *

Good points Kruz I think that sums it up pretty good. I'm not one to even touch the curb feelers on the bike maybe just barely hit the edge of the rear tires. Even with that it seems I go faster than the higher percent of riders that I ride with. There are those that can walk away from me but that's the way it goes. Overall the riding satisfaction is really high on the bike though for what I want. I don't think the best track bike is going to make me better anyway. Oddly enough I've ridden with guys with 08 and newer ZX10's and they were going slow all day, I expected at least a roll on to liven it up.

Well put, Kruz. That about sums it up... except I don't know about the Starbucks crowd. I'm a Folgers kinda guy.

Kawnow, you're going to kill a stock '08/'09 ZX-10 on low and midrange depending on what year 14 you've got and whether your flies are in or out. Stock the new 10R doesn't even start to wake up until around 8000 rpm, then it's hang on for dear life til the rev limiter kicks in......all top end. Bolt on an Akra full system and a PCIII though and it's a whole different animal, the bike comes alive around 5000 and by 6000 it makes my 14 feel slow..no kidding. Handling wise, the 10 is not a beginners bike. When ridden at 70% pace it's docile enough but when you start to push hard it can turn around and bite you. The front end is just plain scary with the stock Ohlins steering damper on there, even cranked down all the way it feels nervous unless the road is billiard table smooth. If you can handle your 14 well in the turns and it sounds like you can, you could probably embarass a lot of the liter bike guys, especially the bike night crowd. Get a hold of someone who knows how to ride one though and he's going to check out on you as Romans found out.

If you were going to go with a liter size bike, I would recomend taking a look at a Honda CBR 1000RR. They do not have the absolute topend power of a 10R or Beemer but they have smooth, fantastic midrange which is what you need on the roads anyway and they will hang on the fast stuff with just about anything. Also Honda managed to pulll off a hat trick, the CBR can turn in with supreme agility abut they are also very stable due in no small part to the excellent HESD electronic steering damper.

Don't get me wrong, I love my 10R but it has just enough bad habits to make me leery. Dogo could probably tell you some stories about tossing a 10r down the road since he had the Gen I version which was even crazier.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 11/2/2010 @ 7:36 AM *

Well put, Kruz. That about sums it up... except I don't know about the Starbucks crowd. I'm a Folgers kinda guy.

Folgers is mountain grown for better flavor so if it's not Starbucks it's a Folgers for me too Dogo.

Dogo could probably tell you some stories about tossing a 10r down the road since he had the Gen I version which was even crazier.

Still have it. That bike scares the sh*t outta me. Knocked my d*ck in the dirt the first time I rode it. There's an old thread on here somewhere about it. The 10r is the motorcycle equivalent of owning an adopted former fighting dog. It's probably gonna bite ya, but ya can't blame the dog. You knew what you were getting when you brought it home!

Folgers is mountain grown for better flavor so if it's not Starbucks it's a Folgers for me too Dogo.

I thought they'd fixed all that with Gen III. Come to think of it Dogo, mine wasn't bad at all until I put the full Akra on there, the extra torque, especially in the midrange gets the front end really light when your crankin down on it and she shimmies. I've heard faster riders just ignore it and goooooo but I'm not that brave.....yet! The CBR fits me like an old pair of slippers, you ride it wide open like a 600 and it doesn't care.

I thought they'd fixed all that with Gen III. Come to think of it Dogo, mine wasn't bad at all until I put the full Akra on there, the extra torque, especially in the midrange gets the front end really light when your crankin down on it and she shimmies.

Now, for the most part, this is just internet quarterbacking, as I've never ridden a Gen 2('06-'07) 10r... but seems to me Kawi had "fixed" the quirks of the Gen 1 when they released the Gen 2, but the guys that already owned the Gen 1 rejected the Gen 2. They missed the edgey, unpredictability of the Gen 1. I've ridden the Gen 3 and it is more tame and gives better rider feedback than my Gen 1, but not much... But the Gen 3 I've ridden was bone stock and my Gen 1 has been uncorked. I can definitly see where opening up the midrange power of the Gen 3 would make it feel almost identicle (kinda scetchy) to my Gen 1, especially when cracking it open exiting corners. Let's face it, the "traction control" of the Gen 3 is pretty much worthless, and the stock steering damper is a POS. The only real improvement, I've noticed in the Gen 1 vs. the Gen 3, is the brakes. The stock Gen 1 brakes are terrible. There is a left over '08 10r sitting on the floor of the dealership that I just bought the zx14 from. Could pick it up for just under $8k, OTD. Not gonna do it though. IMHO, the Gen 3 is not enough of an improvement over my Gen 1 to justify the purchase. Now I can see how there is enough of a difference between the 10r and CBR for you to justify owning both. Unpredictable and prone to bite (10r) fit one part of my personality, however. Smooth and stabile (zx14) suits the other.

* Last updated by: DogoZX on 11/2/2010 @ 1:47 PM *

Then you'd like a CBR, mellow but still fast as hell, ask John McGuiness.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 11/2/2010 @ 2:23 PM *

Then you'd like a CBR, mellow but still fast as hell

Your CBR, yes I know I would. The newer ones, I'm not as sure about... who am I kidding... He who dies with the most toys wins, right!?

Back more on track to the OP.

Tom,
I saw where you posted this pic of your front Busa tire in a different thread...

You know, us guys can talk until we're blue in the face and type until our fingers bleed about how we ride. Thing is, our tires, especially the fronts, don't lie.
You Sir, IMHO, should get the CBR! You will be disapointed with the zx14's stock, soft suspension and you will be dragging the footpegs, lower fairings, and exhaust through tight corners. Your Bus and the 14 are both "sport touring" machines with serious leans towards sport. However, the Busa, as set up from the factory, leans slightly more towards sport and the zx14 slightly more towards touring. The zx14 is a fantastic bike, but your tires are telling me you should be riding a litre.

In the end, it may come down to a financial standpoint. The CBR I was looking at was an '09, deeply discounted. If it's still there in the spring when I can buy, $9500-$10,000 may win out over $13,500 for an '11 ZX-14. But if it's gone, and I'm looking at $13,500 for an '11 version of either, I'll probably go with the best of both worlds ZX-14, and try to get a dedicated track bike over the next winter.
Going back to the tire pictures, the 016s are track day tires, the BT-021s I posted in that thread were street examples, note the sizeable chicken strip on the edge of the front. We have miles and miles of excellent twisties around here, but a LOT of the corners (especially in the brushy summer) are pretty much blind. The old saying of "how willing are you to die today" comes into play on overall corner speed. You never know what your going to find waiting around that corner. And that even slows the young guys down to the point I can keep up with the front 3 or 4 of the group most of the time, even on the Busa.
We'll see, got all winter to think about it. In the meantime, I'll hang around here and chat with you all. Not as many of you here as there is on the Busa forum, but your an equally good bunch of folks. Your stuck with me for a while, 14 or not .

* Last updated by: HillbillyTom on 11/2/2010 @ 7:54 PM *

In the end, it may come down to a financial standpoint. The CBR I was looking at was an '09, deeply discounted. If it's still there in the spring when I can buy, $9500-$10,000 may win out over $13,500 for an '11 ZX-14. But if it's gone, and I'm looking at $13,500 for an '11 version of either, I'll probably go with the best of both worlds ZX-14, and try to get a dedicated track bike over the next winter.
Going back to the tire pictures, the 016s are track day tires, the BT-021s I posted in that thread were street examples, note the sizeable chicken strip on the edge of the front. We have miles and miles of excellent twisties around here, but a LOT of the corners (especially in the brushy summer) are pretty much blind. The old saying of "how willing are you to die today" comes into play on overall corner speed. You never know what your going to find waiting around that corner. And that even slows the young guys down to the point I can keep up with the front 3 or 4 of the group most of the time, even on the Busa.
We'll see, got all winter to think about it. In the meantime, I'll hang around here and chat with you all. Not as many of you here as there is on the Busa forum, but your an equally good bunch of folks. Your stuck with me for a while, 14 or not

Wasn't tryin' to get rid of ya, Tom. Even if you don't get a 14, I hope you stick around. Most of us, 'round here, just love bikes, period. About the price... I just picked up a leftover '08 zx14 for $7500. Once you get it put back together, you could probably sell your Busa for that much. '08-'11, the zx14 is the same bike. So unless you're set on a particular color, save some $$$ and pick up a leftover. That is if you go with the 14.

So here's the pic of your street run tires you posted in the other thread:

Sizeable chicken strip on the front??? Not what I'm seein'! I'm seein' a set of bt021's that look like a wore out set of bt003's! No chicken strips, no flat spots on the back. About 3/16ths unused tread on the front and toast way before the rear... that was a fun 5k on that set! To do that to a set of tires on the Big Ninja, you will be draggin' sh*t... and I promise you, you will be disappointed with atleast the factory rear shock.
I love the zx14. I just purchased my second one. My time with my first one was cut short due to a fist size hole punching through the engine casings... and I still think it is the best bike Kawi has ever made. But, for the way you obviously ride, it does have a few shortcomings. Just want to give you the real story. No hype, no BS.

DAmn! Looks to me like a front tire that is not worn evenly across the surface but actually is worn a great deal more on the edes.

damn, Tom. You wore out the edges before the middle. Haven't seen that yet. Hope I can do that one day.
that's insane. How many tickets have you gotten?

Looks very similiar to the tire wear on my 14 Tom, so I know you gotta be dragging some hard parts (i.e. footpegs) on that Busa.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 11/3/2010 @ 2:45 PM *

the 14 WILL do that to tires quite easily with the factory suspension! TRUST me! I've done it to 5 sets of 016's!

the sides of my tires ALWAYS wear out first!

Tom, you really should ride my 14

Jeff, I'll take a quick loop on it in the spring sometime. Gettin' about too cold for me to ride now. Switch to the dirt bike mostly this time of year. Brrr, supposed to be like 27-28 Friday morning.
That BT-021 front had more tread on the middle before I put the 1100 slab miles on it. Took that picture just a few days after I got back from Indy. Those BT-021 fronts were so bad, some of the guys on the Busa forum got another front free, kinda like a warrenty replacement.
As for the footpegs, only place I've dragged the feelers was at the track. Never even came close with those 021s on the street.

Here's a video I took last summer of a morning ride through one of our local twisties sections. Nothing spectacular as I'm always wishing for x-ray vision to see a little farther around those turns when I'm riding by myself.
The Busa on Pilot Road 2s..

Bet Jeff01ss can tell you which road this is within the first 5 seconds of the vid.

P.S.. Vid is in 720P HD if your comp will deal with it.

* Last updated by: HillbillyTom on 11/3/2010 @ 4:49 PM *

the 14 WILL do that to tires quite easily with the factory suspension! TRUST me! I've done it to 5 sets of 016's!

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Draggin' my old S/O's most of the way.

Here's a video I took last summer of a morning ride through one of our local twisties sections.

Good stuff, Tom. Looks sooo much like the stuff near my place here in WA, it's crazy. Gotta love chip seal, huh!?

* Last updated by: DogoZX on 11/3/2010 @ 5:09 PM *

Love the Vid. I watched in HD, volume high, up close, head in the screen. Thanks for sharing.

That chip 'n seal is why even sport touring tires never last me longer than 5000 miles.
Did anyone notice the big Snapping Turtle setting on the edge of the road at 0:53? Like I said, here in the Ozarks, you never know what your going to find around the next corner.
I have a bunch of videos, both street and dirt, that I'll post through the winter to hopefully aleviate some of the cold weather boredom.

Did anyone notice the big Snapping Turtle setting on the edge of the road at 0:53?

Had to go back and watch again... LOL. Thought that was a pothole the first time I watched.

* Last updated by: DogoZX on 11/3/2010 @ 5:46 PM *

Dog, new avatar ROFL,,,, looking 4 turtle now.

On my phone so I'm not able to watch the video but, just by the still I can tell you what road that is.