Well I'm getting BSTs for the busa some day soon and I am not going chance zip ties or tire irons on those. It's a No Mar or nuthin. Cycle Hill is the same company, cheaper model.

Which one would you get?

https://www.nomartirechanger.com

The ordinary orange Cycle Hill $495.

Looks like it would get the job done but you lever against that center bar and it is only secured beneath the tire? Does that flex and/or scrape against the wheel bearings? Look at those puny rim mounts. Not so confident about that with my CF rims on there.

Or the CH 100 HD+ $525
Heavier built than the plain Cycle Hill and also has the top support arm for the rod that you lever against. Same puny rim mounts.

OR the Classic HD $645
Same as the CH 100 HD+ but has a lot bigger mounting blocks and I think that's gotta be safer for CF rims.
Has stand level bead breaker instead of floor level bead breaker. If you ask me, the stand level bead breaker isn't a plus as far as applying downforce to break the bead. Still worth the extra $100 for the big mounting blocks?

I have more questions and ideas but will save for later if this thread develops responses.

First, Which one?

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/28/2019 @ 6:36 PM *

Well it looks pretty safe.That Classic HD one.I'd call and ask specifically about CF rims.Long as there's no pressure on the rim edges and such,it should be fine?I know the mounting for the CF rims requires NO contact with the rim edge from the upper pin..the one that 'guides' the tire on there.Whereas a metal rim isn't so fragile.

Rook: BST has a detailed guide on its website on how to use a tire changing machine safely so as to not risk damaging the wheels. I took a copy of it to my local dealership where I have my tires changed for all my bikes. They have done two sets of tire changes on my Yamaha R3's BST wheels, using their normal machine, and zero issues. The BST guide includes what maximum pressure to use.

Jim G

I bought the Classic HD, on sale at the Motorcycle show a few years ago. I have changed a few sets on XXs and a couple on my ZX14R. When you see these guys/gals whip tires on and off at the MC Shows, the tires are stretched out and real ez to put on and off. New tires IS more effort. I've had tires that went on fairly ez, and a couple that were a bitch. To be fair, it might be operator error more than anything, but some tires and narrower rims can be a bitch. And have a 2nd set of hands to help. The middle post pin does "work" against the bearings. I take the dust seals out to avoid ruining those (again). Pay close attention to the videos and it's very important to "lube" the areas like they say.

My opinion is that I recommend the 645.00 one, and it looks much more "stout" than the cheaper orange one. I have more than gotten my money back out of this unit.

IF I had CF wheels, I would NOT attempt them on this type of changer. There us allot of "pressure" on the edge of the wheel. I would find someone with the expensive air operated one that doesn't touch the wheel. Again, this is my opinion based on my experience.

ominousone

GREEN:

That Classic HD one.I'd call and ask specifically about CF rims.Long as there's no pressure on the rim edges and such,it should be fine?I know the mounting for the CF rims requires NO contact with the rim edge from the upper pin..the one that 'guides' the tire on there.Whereas a metal rim isn't so fragile.

They are replacing a tire on a Rotobox rim so apparently CF rims are ok on this changer.

JIM:

Rook: BST has a detailed guide on its website on how to use a tire changing machine safely so as to not risk damaging the wheels....They [Jim's shop] have done two sets of tire changes on my Yamaha R3's BST wheels, using their normal machine, and zero issues.

Thanks, Jim. I will check out the video.

No way am I going to trust a shop with my BSTs. I'd have watch or else forget it. Already had my OEM rims scratched at the dealership and the company president explained that removing tires requires extreme force and they can't guaranty there will never be a scratch. Sheet.

OMINOUSONE ONE:

When you see these guys/gals whip tires on and off at the MC Shows, the tires are stretched out and real ez to put on and off. New tires IS more effort. I've had tires that went on fairly ez, and a couple that were a bitch.

The middle post pin does "work" against the bearings. I take the dust seals out to avoid ruining those (again).

My opinion is that I recommend the 645.00 one, and it looks much more "stout" than the cheaper orange one.

IF I had CF wheels, I would NOT attempt them on this type of changer. There us allot of "pressure" on the edge of the wheel. I would find someone with the expensive air operated one that doesn't touch the wheel. Again, this is my opinion based on my experience.

* Last updated by: Rook on 4/29/2019 @ 7:03 AM *

Something like this is what I would suggest be used on CF wheels. It is pretty much automatic and power operated. I would expect the shop, that has a similar changer, allow me to watch.

https://www.derekweaver.com/bikers-garage/motorcycle-tire-changers/weaver-w-m807x-motorcycle-atv-tire-changer/?gclid=EAIaIQobChMIqIulyt714QIVWrnACh0ucQveEAYYBSABEgLvKvD_BwE

ominousone

God forbid you hit a pot hole with these CF rims!

Piken: Do NOT worry about potholes hurting Carbon Fiber wheels. I have been running BST Carbon Fiber wheels for the past year on a Yamaha R3, with ZERO worries or issues. Back in 2004 or so, I ran BST wheels on a Ducati MOnster S4 for 2 or 3 years with zero issues. They are very tough. There is no substantiated record of any BST wheel EVER breaking in service.

Jim G

"I would expect the shop, that has a similar changer, allow me to watch"..yep.At least the first time with whomever..And make sure to ask the guy about touching the upper rim with the bead guide.So he knows if he's not aware of it.That's what I did.It was all cool.After that,I made sure the same guy did my rims.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/29/2019 @ 2:11 PM *

God forbid you hit a pot hole with these CF rims!

I know I'm going to hit a pot hole or get a rock strike eventually . I sure don't want my rims getting damaged because some bonehead was careless though. Aftermarket wheels should be a once in a bike's lifetime event. Heck they can cost a third of what a new bike costs.

After a few years, I'll probably ease up a bit.

There is no substantiated record of any BST wheel EVER breaking in service.

Does this include boosted bikes? Everything has it's limit. I have seen pics of crashed race bikes with aluminum rims where the spokes snapped off the rear wheel. This was just a NA road racing bike with aluminum wheels.

The statement does not necessarily include drag bikes. If a drag bike gets enough air via a wheelie and comes down HARD, you can probably crack a wheel - whether it is Carbon Fiber or alloy. In fact, the big problem that the aftermarket for ZX-14s addresses is the cracking of a ZX-14 oilpan when a lowered ZX-14 comes down hard from a dragstrip launch wheelie. That is why those low profile oilpans exist.

BST tries to head off that problem by offering the heavier and stronger series of CF wheels for dragstrip use, but may dragracers either don't bother to find that out, or won't pay the extra cost, or simply think they want the lightest possible wheels regardless of vulnerability under abusive conditions.

The only BST wheel roadrace failure I have heard of was one many years ago where the rear suspension of the racer's bike suffered a failure while racing and caused one or more of the failed parts to collapse onto the rear wheel. Of course the rider claimed it was the wheel's fault, but experts who analyzed the failure disagreed.

There are always "stories" about exotic parts that riders claim failed unreasonably under normal use conditions. My favorite one is the one about the very lightweight rear sprocket that was clearly specified as being suitable for up to 100 hp (because it was made for nimbleness and low moment of inertia), that failed on a 200 hp racebike, and the rider involved attacked the sprocket manufacturer across the entire Internet when the sprocket fractured under that abuse (he had never read the specs in the ads for the sprocket), and a bunch of riders who also never bothered to check the specs spread the "fake news" across The Internet for YEARS after. I myself ran that sprocket with zero issues on a bike withIN the specs.

I'm sure a lot of riders and car owners also don't realize that Magnesium BURNS when exposed to flre, and then get pissed when underhood fire burns up a wheel.

And finally, every well written tire guide tells you that the best traction is achieved with a tire that has NO tread, but of course a no-tread tire can't handle rain. Nevertheless, it never occurs to many street riders that the DEPTH and DENSITY of tread is of course going to be somewhat proportional to the streetability of a tire (along with other important factors of course). So they don't buy Tire "A" because it has less tread depth and density than Tire "B", even though what they say they want is a "street legal race tire"!

Not enough buyers do proper research on their purchases. And when they buy the "wrong" product for their needs or desires, they blame the manufacturer.

Rook, if you are planning to supercharge or turbo the Busa, why not ask BST if your future plans are compatible with their wheels?

Jim G

* Last updated by: JimGnitecki on 4/29/2019 @ 3:56 PM *

Rook, if you are planning to supercharge or turbo the Busa, why not ask BST if your future plans are compatible with their wheels?

Very good suggestion. I will do that. Better make sure I want these BSTs before go and buy a tire changer for them.

IMO..those wheels should be fine for a turboed Busa.The heavier ones.Doesn't hurt to call though.I would.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 4/30/2019 @ 10:46 AM *

I will check but the Rapid TEKs already have the heavier static weight rating like the reinforced standard BST has. ...but the rear is still very light somehow and front just an ounce heavier. Seems like there is more of a concern with the extra weight of a turbo on the front than the extra power at the back. I will check it out though.

Rook, YES, the concern IS the front end, not the rear. When a ZX-14 comes down hard from a launch wheelie, it will take out the stock oilpan! A Hayabusa might have a better stock oilpan shape and height, but the front wheel is subject to the same abuse.

The load on the rear wheel is naturally limited by Newtronian Physics. Even with really good street rubber, you're unlikely to get more than a 1.2 coefficient of friction, so you are not ABLE to send TOO MUCH power through the wheel before the tire simply loses traction. It's a natural "fuse".

Jim G

A Hayabusa might have a better stock oilpan shape and height, but the front wheel is subject to the same abuse.

The load on the rear wheel is naturally limited by Newtronian Physics. Even with really good street rubber, you're unlikely to get more than a 1.2 coefficient of friction, so you are not ABLE to send TOO MUCH power through the wheel before the tire simply loses traction. It's a natural "fuse".

Thank you Jim, that makes a lot of sense.

Get the nomar, the cycle hill is definitely a cheaper version. I bought a nomar and have changed over 200 tires with the standard nomar. I've changed tires on BST wheels 3 times now with no issues, I am however extremely careful when doing so. I live 3 hours from nomar. I have been to their shop numerous times and they are GREAT people. They even gave me and a buddy a tour of their shop/manufacturing area. I got mine from one of the employees at nomar and picked it up at the shop. They even replaced all worn at all parts. Best motorcycle investment that I've ever bought!

* Last updated by: Jeff01ss on 5/4/2019 @ 7:56 AM *

I have a No-Mar Classic. Got fed up with hand-levering all my and my friends' tires, so I made the 3 biggest violators of my sanity chip in. Bead breaking should be done with the rim edge on top of one of the delrin blocks and then move the block or the wheel to clamp it for tire levering.

After seeing a video of a bare BST wheel being dropped on concrete from 6' up and bouncing like a rubber ball, I would have no fear of tire changing or running BST C-F wheels. I sure as hell wouldn't try that with a standard cast wheel.

I bought a nomar and have changed over 200 tires with the standard nomar. I've changed tires on BST wheels 3 times now with no issues, I am however extremely careful when doing so.

Thank you, jeff.

Lotsa Harlies around here. I might do some summer work changing tires but darned if I'm going to do it for $30 like some shops do. Not unless I can get a tire on in 10 minutes which I doubt even with a NM Classic.

Bead breaking should be done with the rim edge on top of one of the delrin blocks and then move the block or the wheel to clamp it for tire levering.....After seeing a video of a bare BST wheel being dropped on concrete from 6' up and bouncing like a rubber ball, I would have no fear of tire changing or running BST C-F wheels.

Yes, I saw that video made by that BST vender too. LOL Even if you can, I wouldn't. Thanks Danno. Sounds like the No Mar Classic is a GO.

The thing about the Classic that looks to be a slight downside compared to the cheaper models is that the bead breaker is NOT ground level. Seems like a ground level bead breaker would be easier to put your weight on.

Could the waist level bead breaker on the Classic be adjusted downward to covert it to a ground level bead breaker?...or could you put a longer vertical pipe on the Classic so the bead breaker could be converted to ground level? It says the Classic can be expanded to include a ground level bead breaker but I don't see where it would bolt on.

What about the Yellow Thing and the Extra Hand clamps? Do I need those?

"using their normal machine, and zero issues"..yep.It's that top pin on the upper arm that causes problems.Installers if they don't know will allow that to contact the rim,damaging it.On a regular tire,that pin helps guide the rim.I mean,that's what BST told me when I first had mine.As far as pressure to hold the rim?I THINK my guy was using 40 psi to hold it in the clamps.I think BST also recommends this.

"Could the waist level bead breaker on the Classic be adjusted downward to covert it to a ground level bead breaker?...or could you put a longer vertical pipe on the Classic so the bead breaker could be converted to ground level? It says the Classic can be expanded to include a ground level bead breaker but I don't see where it would bolt on".Yep to all.If it's setup for a floor level deal already,may as well then.They wouldn't say that if it wasn't I wouldn't think.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 5/5/2019 @ 10:28 PM *

No-Mars are made locally (St. Louis) so the next time I stop in there at the factory store to get some veg grease or wheel weights, I'll inquire about the ground-level bead breaker for the Classic.

I've only had trouble with one tire (a new Harley-branded rear) that two of us 200+ pounders hanging on the breaker lever couldn't pop. The oem replacement was so stiff, standing on it in my garage was like standing on a rock. Owner had to take the wheel to someone with a hydraulic car-tire changer with a bike wheel adapter. Original tire had over 15,000 miles, which I suppose is the reason for the truck tire-like rear.

* Last updated by: Danno on 5/6/2019 @ 4:23 AM *

Thanks all.

I know that seaweed lube works great because I've used it. Any opinions on the need for the accessories like the Yellow Thing and the Extra Hand?

The yellow thing helps keep the bead down in the center of the rim where you start the mount. I mostly use levers to mount tires since it seems to go better than using the mount end of the bar.