I again am adjusting my thinking about our bikes.I said something just a few days ago about the 14 not being a very good 'cruiser'.Again...I've spoken too soon.I've had my bike now for 4 years.49,000 miles.Since I began using the BT003's...on a whim really....I've had to seriously change my riding habits(for the last two tire changes).From blasting down straights at near triple digits and IN triple digits at times,to a sedate 60ish mph on straights...saving the triples for the curves.Well....doing that has made me make some suspension changes as well.I softened up my suspension considerably.Trying to find that most excellent balance.Thing is....tires play such a huge role in how a bike is gonna react and all that it's difficult to actually find 'one' overall setting for all conditions.

These BT's stick like glue. EXCELLENT grip and secure leaning feeling.BUT...they are short lived.I'm now back to my Angel ST rear...front's going on in a week or so.But I said that to say this.Keeping the same settings on my BT's are working very well on the new tire and also the ride itself.I mean....60 mph would have been something I would have NEVER considered a 'fun' speed to ride.But I am finding out differently.It IS fun.And carving at 90 is very fun.Nothing crazy...just 'cruising' and enjoying the bike.Went out today for a ride.Highest I hit today on a big sweeper was 110 or so.Now,for me,that's well,tame.Probably for everyone else here as well.But the enjoyable part was that the feeling of the bike....smooth,planted.No vibes.Just nice rolling.And I'm pulling down 39 mpg as well avg.

I KNOW I'm not gonna get pulled over for UNDER the speed limit.This is kinda krazy...what I'm doing now.But the 14 DOES make a very fine smooth touring bike with plenty of power and all.Amazing.Finding another side of my bike that had been kinda overlooked.I dialed my speeds and shifting habits down to try and make things easier on my BT'S,and if I continue to ride like this,I'm probably gonna see major tire mileage from the Angels.Just thought I'd share that.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/25/2011 @ 10:37 PM *

This is a point and shoot bike. Stop with the touring bike business with a shift light for a mode display, not the next Steerbucks down the road on your gps pod, oh I gotta pee lets stop. Then drink, then ride, then pee is that is touring.

Blue, I just finished with my 1st set of Angels at 9K...like these tires. Yeah, once you retrain the brain to slow the wrist twist you stop seeing the world in a blur, but I just can't say Tourer...

* Last updated by: Shogun1 on 8/26/2011 @ 6:47 AM *

But you can say sport-tour, because she does that VERY well.

... but I just can't say Tourer...

Thank you.

HUB THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH MAKING THE 14 AN OLD MANS TOURER AND HAVING 175 HP AT THE WHEEL. kINDA LETS YOU CHANGE SCENERY PRETTY KWIK IFFENS YA KNOWS WHAT i MEANS.

There is a difference between a touring bike, and a sport-touring bike.

Hub, you don't know what you are talking about on this.

Not all touring riders drink, ride, pee, stop as you imply. Many do 8 hour days with stops only for a mid-ride meal and gasoline, and maybe to take some pictures or talk to interesting people.

Touring is a state of mind, where you probably have a destination, but you don't want to get there fast necessarily, as opposed to in comfort and style. I know guys with true touring bikes who have hit every State in the nation, and often spend a couple months at a stretch on the road.

Sport-touring on the other hand usually has a destination, and arrives there in the most rapid possible way. It is a sporting type of bike with luggage, which prefers mountain and county roads to slab highways. This too is a mindset, and is in no way related to balls out sport riding, though it often is based on the same make and model.

The ZX14 is a sportbike, but on the heavy and big side. So not the best of the sportbikes, if mountain switchbacks and hairpins, and track days, are how you judge a sportbike.

So she makes a great sport-tourer, because its easy to make her more comfortable, without signifcantly detracting from her handling and performance.

Examples:

CVO Ultra Classic Electra Glide : pretty darn good HP for a Harley, and tons of luggage, cruise control, great sound system, heated seat, airflow control to warm or cool rider, immensely comfy seat.

Guess what kind of bike it is?

Concours 14 / ZX14 : really good HP to weight ratio, reasonably light compare to above, can be made comfortable enough for multi-day trips, can carry enough in luggage to get by, handles exceedingly well and can be ridden aggressively in the twisties.

Guess what kind of bike it is?

The point is, trying to pigeon-hole the ZX14 as only a WOT bike is ridiculous, just like saying an Electra Glide can't handle, which the police videos prove otherwise.

* Last updated by: privateer on 8/26/2011 @ 8:18 AM *

If only we could just have one of each inn our garages so we could ride according to our mood for the day instead of having to define who we are by what we ride.
I am a perfect example of this.
My first bike was a late 70's standard only because it was a cheap starter and I was smart enough to realize there is a learning curve for people who want to push limits and really learn to ride and sometimes that results in crashing and that I did. At the same time I was riding next to best buddy who had a mid eighties sportbike. Soon enough I got my own because I was crashing my bike trying to keep up with his especially in the turns. That and my bike had to have a car battery sitting on the luggage rack because the generator quit charging,lol.
Then I bought a more aggressive sportbike from the mid nineties. Wore the hell outa that. While I was rebuilding that for four years I had a pretty mean looking Roadstar which I had fun customizing and ground the sides of trying to make it handle like a sport bike. Then the 14 which I spent a lot of time and money trying to make the best of both worlds.
My point is, I always have this nagging feeling when I'm out amongst riders (and I don't know why I care) that they really don't know me because I can go either way and to such extremes. They like to pigeon hole you by their first impression. Your riding a cruiser, well then you really don't know how to ride fast, you ride a sportbike, well then you are some reckless punk kid with a death wish.
I hate feeling like I have to be ashamed because I'm with people who don't agree with me because they are ignorant and set in their ways. Thank the gods ever one on this forum is not like this.
It's just too bad we can't have it all in one bike. But I guess that is just how it goes. After touring and commuting and carving corners on my 14 all I have to say is it's a mean beast waiting for something to go wrong or you to let your guard down and first and foremost it wants to go straight as fast as possible and anything deviating from that trajectory is a trade-off in one way or the other. I tried to tame it and ride with discipline and control, but shit happens and here I am with all my cruiser buddies sayin' told you so. Well they were right. But they were also wrong.

that's all I got to say about that....

Okay okay....hold on...I didn't say I was going to be a 'Tourer'...I said the BIKE makes a nice tourer IF you want to.To me...she'll always be my badazz rocketship....I would not even consider changing the lovely FAST styling of my 14 by installing bags and such.And Shogun...yep...I like the Angels as well...ever since they came out.Gonna really try to see what kind of mileage I can get outta this set....EXCEPT...for the curves and all.Sorry,can't escape the thrill of the G..or the ability to leave every other vehicle out there BEHIND!!!!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/26/2011 @ 11:14 AM *

Edge, don't let your cruiser buddies get away with the "I told u" B.S.... You had the balls to ride one the greatest machines ever and if its time to switch styles cool but don't let them think you made a mistake. It just sounds to me the thrill is gone with you and the 14; that's it....

Nah Edge...what they're sayin..."I told you so"...what...what did they tell you?That they were jealous that a guy like you buys the friggin baddest ,biggest sportbike out there...and they're like...scared to fuck*& death of twistin the wick on the most powerful production bike on the planet?You know...now you've had the 14,MAYBE you can give em some lessons on how "NOT to become a rolling couch potatoe".Roll yer Harley till she's scrapin...see how many of em buck up.You know what to do now,lean and push.Dude...you're fine!Fuck them guys..."we told ya so"...shit...wtf is THAT?

NO motorcycle is gonna escape the slippery shit with only a 2,3 inch contact patch.No me,not you...not any Harley ridin "badazz".Believe me...ole Rossi's had his share of crunchin.And the rest too.Man...don't sweat that...you couldn't foresee anything like that UNTIL you were in it.A bunch of us here(me mainly) have just gotten "lucky",that's all.Not skill....sometimes...just plain luck.I've pulled off some REALLY stupid stunts thinkin I had it together.Truth is...it wasn't my time to wreck.But it COULD be any time I get out there.Experience....you know that...it's all experiences.Some good,some not so friggin fun.But it all counts.Wrecked 14...shit...you won't be the last my friend.No way....Why,one's crashing right now somewhere!And so is a nice,composed Harley...somewhere.

Get a sweet strong Harley and put some small power mods on there...it'll be cool.Make sure ya post up some pics bro.I want ta see yer new ride...you and Privateer.Listen...my 2000 Heritage softail was a bitchen ride....very nice,and fast as well.Nice custom stuff on there....nice swept bars.She definitely wasn't any slouch with that breather kit and all on there.And ride for DAYS.Had I known about the throttlemiester and stuff,it would have REALLY been a complete package for me....at one time.

It's truly AMAZING how many'wannabe" riders...even those who've been riding...are scared of the 14.Really.They are.Too much for em(they think).But anyone thinkin they're just gonna run balls out EVERYWHERE with the 14 is gonna get surprised sooner or later.I still think...if a guy makes it through at least one good riding season with a 14,without wreckin or somethin like that,he'll most likely survive to get a bunch of rides in before she's all done.Two years....odds get better.This bike requires a certain learning curve.That's what I think.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/26/2011 @ 4:51 PM *

Amazing, Blue, how we come full circle.

I have always maintained the danger of the ZX14 (or any similar sportbike) is it is so very competent, so very powerful, so very forgiving up to a point, that it ambushes riders who push just over the limit. And because it is so fast, and so powerful, those riders tend to be in deep trouble when it happens.

But I am NOT saying a ZX14 rider statistically has higher accident rates than, say, a Suzuki Boulevard rider. Just that, like MotoGP, -2, WSB racers (racers in general), when it lets go, you are usually at speed.

Ignoring the driveway incidents (lol) consider: how many do you know that threw sportbikes away at speed? I did, 60mph on a ZX11. Edge just did. Others have as well.

Now, I ride (a LOT) with folks with touring bikes. I'm about to become one of them. We have a different kind of accident. I don't mean to speak for all touring riders, just what I've observed over the decades. Touring riders get into their own little world. The music is playing. They are chatting on the intercom with the person on the back seat, or someone else on the ride. They are watching the lead bike as it gets out ahead looking for a gas stop on the right side of the road.

When something goes wrong with touring riders, its just as bad as when it goes wrong with sportbike riders. It just happens for a different set of circumstances.

Consider what happened in my town just a few months ago. About a dozen big touring bikes where coming through town on US 40 (little more than a main drag through town) when a pickup truck stuck its nose out of an alley. Poor guy couldn't see, he was counting on someone to give him an opening. Won't argue that assumption, that is what he was doing. The lead bike counter-steered around, as did the second bike. And the third. But the next bike in the staggered formation was "outside" position (closest to parked cars in this case) and the two people on that big bike were chatting, listening to music cranked up loud, and trusting the pack to lead them safely.

When the pack scattered in the face of danger, that lone bike slammed into the side of that pickup truck doing 40 mph (5 above speed limit) and killed the bikers dead. Put the truck driver in the hospital too, it was a big old Electra Glide, all steel and 1,000 pounds plus with passengers.

We on this forum, have had slightly less than the statistical average of accidents, defined as something which costs a lot to fix the bike and or yourself. But still enough to know, like racers, that sometimes it just happens, no matter how good you are.

Edge didn't see it coming. I didn't see my ZX11 wreck coming either. The guy and lady on the Glide didn't see it coming. You almost never get the privilege of seeing it coming. Though we can always see it clearly in hindsight.

Edge shouldn't beat himself up, and he should push back in a friendly way when the inevitable poking about fast sportbikes begins. Maybe by reminding them they are not immune to chaos theory, one of them might slow down a little approaching a dangerous area or intersection, or pay better attention and be less concerned for playing music to everyone else on the ride. And so save someone's life.

The guys in my mc will all give me props for my new bike, but some will say "I told you so". Its fair, I've spent 3 years telling some of them they are an accident waiting to happen. Which is the honest truth. LOL.

I think this is one of the threads where we all are on the same page.

As for cruisers being dangerous, there have been more cruiser accidents around here lately thsn any other bike. I don't know what to attribute it too. Could bed the sheer numbers, the distractions they cause themselves, or maybe the fact that a lot of them ride together like they are by themselves.

don't know.
All I do know is there is a double standard.
oh well. We'll show 'em how it's done!lol

I promise, I won't be the same kind of Electra Glide rider as the other 4 in my club. They are wound up in the mythos of the Harley Davidson and it shows. One of them can no longer ride, he went to Dragon's Tail and got too hot into a corner, hit the front brake and stood it up, and ran off the road (which on the Tail, involves going downhill as well).

I am going to take 40+ years of sportbike riding and apply what is relevant to my Ultra. Use my understanding of how to enter a turn, when to apex, just slow it down to keep lean angle under 33 degrees. Realism, but not timidness.

The first thing I'm going to do if go to one of the manufacturing companies' parking lots (acres...) on a Sunday and ride it around light posts. Slowly reduce the radius of my turns. Do both counter-steered turns and handlebar turns. Practice away from traffic.

The cops will probably pull in and ask me what the hell am I doing, thinking I'm drunk or something. I remember doing the same thing when I got my ZX11, after being without a bike for 6 years (a really rough time in my life, not that its been a lark otherwise). They asked me whats up, I told them "new bike, need to get familiar" and they were fully on my side from then on. Even sat to the side in the patrol car and watched a while.

I realize I have to totally alter my mind set. In groups, I ride my ZX14 wherever I want it, close, far, whatever. I can stop on a dime, and avoid any road junk, and just have a huge handling advantage over the other bikes in the ride. This won't be the case anymore.

I spent 40+ years trying to become the best street rider I could. I wish I had switched to a cruiser 30 years ago, when I had the chance. Now that I have the chance again, I'm leaping on faith and belief in myself, and I'm going to become a very good Electra Glide rider, even if I have to practice in that parking lot for weeks.

Been using my 06 as one since I bought it.56,000+ miles and it's finally getting replaced with a 2011 C14.I'm keeping the 14 cuz you don't get rid of your bikes.EVER!!!!!

You know,I think big bikes like Harleys...they have the ability to give an illusion of 'safety' to the rider.I'm not putting them down.Heck,I get that way on my Ninja...you know...kinda feeling like I can 'get out of any situation because'....which is totally not accurate.But it happens.I have to check my thinking during my rides....like you said privateer....getting in over yer head happens so quick on at least my bike(it can,and has).Once yer in that curve,rollin hard on yer Harley....and she hits the frame....what are ya gonna do?Same with my Ninja.What am I gonna do when my frontend washes out because of too much speed and all.It happens.Just certain things ya gotta remember DURING THE RIDE that can make ya or break ya.This is a simple,small example.

I see this couple up ahead,pulled off the road.On a Harley.Ya...up ahead,maybe 1/4 mile/They look stuck.So,I decide to pull off and ask em...cool.Simple,right.Ya...except...I forget about the gravel on their side of the road.So I slow down and approach,downshifting,braking.This has happened more than once with me BTW.Anyway,I pull up 'along side'...planning on stopping right even with their bike.NOT.I quickly realize..'shit,I'm still too fast(even though it was only about 4-5 mph at this point).So I 'accidently' lock the rear(you know,easy when yer on gravel).The frontend begins to like,wiggle.Shit man,this could turn into a low speed highside if it goes any further.Thankfully she stopped without any more drama....past the stop point I had 'planned' on.(Inside,I'm like WTF dude,what ARE you doing?You stop to help and end up NEEDING help!")That's what went through my mind at that moment.They didn't notice anything.But I sure did.Again...misjudged my stopping distance and speed.Easy to do.Same as when turning from the Highway onto a right turn low speed corner.Ya...easy...except for the friggin GRAVEL thrown in the center of the line by the cages.Easy for them,right in MY turn line.I forget(though not very often any more)that dropping speed on the Ninja is(can be) visually deceptive.The brakes are GREAT...ya...slow ya in a heartbeat at speed.But that last little distance...that's the tricky deal.She will slide the rear quickly if yer not payin attention to it.I know...I've done it several times.On a few...it was LUCKY I didn't hit somethin.Honestly.I mean,there was NO turning yer way out.The only way was straight forward so she wouldn't lowside.And PRAY.Ended up going 'off the road' like about 30 feet,it was dirt and hard packed stuff,but still...had something been sitting right there...it would have been very not okay.That hasn't happened in quite a while,only cause I started really paying attention to my entry and exit speeds while turning.Even on the 'small stuff..you know,the curves that give ya the impression'I'm easy...speed up'.

I only say this cause I'm NOT a perfect example of how to ride.Not even.And I'm still learning.And it's quite easy to forget it's ONLY two wheels and a little contact patch that is WAY vulnerable to outside conditions.And a BIG HARLEY can deceive as well,with all that size and stuff around ya.It looks from the outside like it could take a big azz crunch and you'd still be fine...no prob.It can't....no bike can.I used to look at my Harley...Heritage softail...from the side ya know,and think...She's a bigazz bike...ya.But strange,when I got on her to ride,the whole "bigazz' perception had changed...the tank didn't look near as beefy as it did just looking at her outside.And she seemed strangely narrow for such a big bike.Very weird.I remember that feeling very clearly.Any bike is still no match for cages or poor road conditions.

I've said before...from my own experience..."she'll accelerate a lot faster than she'll stop".Great brakes or not.You try to do everything right...you know..from carving to stopping.To watching around you to anticipating a possible 'deal' up ahead.It's very easy to get lulled into..."shit man,I'm on MY bike...I'm totally safe".NOT.

But the truth I think is this...these kinds of experiences and thoughts and such are why I ride.It's ALWAYS something different.Always.That's why I don't like driving anywhere if possible in my car.It's so.......safe feeling!Yuck!And I've had my share of serious wrecks with sportbikes to know...the initial hit is what 'kinda' hurts...but it's done in a flash...and there ya are....layin on yer back lookin up thinkin..WTF....geez...my poor bike.Gotta get to my bike!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/28/2011 @ 11:35 AM *

I was looking for a real sport tourer, and there aren't any. The new BMW 1600 is way to expensive in SA. R205 000.00 at R7.2 to 1 USD!! Probably more now. The GTR 1400 has a loooong top gear, so you always gotta change to pass quickly. I bought a Honda ST 1300, which is very comfortable compared to my ZX14, but the lack of top end is a problem for me. It maxes out at 235-240km/h indicated when there is no headwind. The ZX's downfall (IMO) is having to lube the chain every morning before riding on a long trip. Also the luggage cases don't look good. I have done a couple of 3000km plus trips on my ZX's, and one up it is ok, but two up, the ST beats it hands down. Maybe K will make a 1429 GTR with better grunt and a bigger tank? That will be the only bike in my garage then, that's for sure. True what you say, Privateer, on a 14 you can ride how, where and as slow as you want, and then crack it open and goodbye all. That is what I love about the ZX14. My two cents worth.

My biggest problem with all the "Tourer" and cruiser style bikes is this: When I need the bike to do something, I want it to do it NOW! Not a few seconds from now. I never feel safe on the cruiser type bikes for this reason. They react too slow. I guess I say that they tend to be low performing bikes for low performing riders..( flame on!)

Mad

(gotta agree with the 'NOW' statement.Yup.Don't want any hesitation when yer passin a set of slow azz cages who should be pulling off to allow traffic to continue to maintain the posted speed limit) .

* Last updated by: blue07 on 8/29/2011 @ 2:36 PM *

blue i ride my ZX14 every day and its the best bike ever EVER and i don't know if you would consider it a tourer or sport-bike the way i ride but i think you should just ride and enjoy!trust me you will like your bike for what it is not what people say it is.

"trust me you will like your bike for what it is not what people say it is".

She's the coolest,bitchenist,smoothest ridin machine I've ever had.I don't give a darn what anyone thinks about it.I wouldn't have any other bike out there...except...maybe...that turbine bike like Jay Leno's.Those are actually for sale...fully built and ready to ride.Other than that...I LOVE my bike

I guess I say that they tend to be low performing bikes for low performing riders..( flame on!)

Uh, Maddevil, maybe, maybe not. I have passed ZX14's and Busas in corners with the ST. Some guys have got bikes that they just can't ride except in the pub when they are pissed and they talk a lot of sh$t about how fast etc, etc, etc. As I said, I have got both in my garage, and each one serves a different purpose. I love both of them.

My biggest problem with all the "Tourer" and cruiser style bikes is this: When I need the bike to do something, I want it to do it NOW! Not a few seconds from now. I never feel safe on the cruiser type bikes for this reason. They react too slow. I guess I say that they tend to be low performing bikes for low performing riders..( flame on!)

I agree. I'm already having doubts about this HD thing and I haven't rode the thing a foot. I said the same thing not to long ago, but maybe I was wrong in generalizing. People can be both. however rare that may be.