Been following the Rook pipe saga. First you want a Tsukigi Cannon then an Alien head now a M4. You are afraid of losing low end performance. I was too but then I just went for a full system and you know what. It actually made more power all over. You have an 08 right. Leave the secondaries in place they provide the intake velocity needed for low end performance and yet open quick enough. Install a Yosh R77 like I did and leave the quiet plug in as it actually gives more torque through the rev range and doesn't hurt the top end too much as in barely. If you try to justify slip-ons you will not have the top end performance or weight loss of a full system. Even with out the flies in mine is just as good down low as in below 3k rpm as stock. So there you have it. Also if you took your flies out put them back in the cam intake combo of this high power set up will not work well below 3k rpm. Another thing to consider is that dyno charts show full throttle power and I never leave a stop with full throttle just open enough to accelerate. That also means more intake velocity and better performance than indicated by dyno charts.

Haha this is a funny thread, rook can't make up his mind. BTW I like the Yoshi R-77s. Rook here is a dissertation on pipe performance from Dan Kyle Racing. They're talking about the RC51 here but the principles are the same for all machines.

Exhaust Information Page
(Probably way more than you ever wanted to know)

Due to the steady influx of e-mails of people asking for my "opinion" on slip-on exhausts for the RC51 I have written below some of my "opinions" of frequently asked questions:

My "opinions" are based on personal experiences, over 15 years of extensive carb tuning as well as credible reports from owners of various exhausts & are not indicative of the views of the ROGUE organization.

I would like to start off by saying that the addition of the PowerCommander (PCII or PCIIIr) is more important than any choice of exhaust. Even if you are running the stock exhaust cans your bike will benefit from the Power Commander in ways that you will just have to feel to believe.

Second I would like to say that purchasing an exhaust is above everything else a matter of personal preference as well as financial ability. You should buy an exhaust based on what you like & what you can afford, but keep in mind that more expensive isn't always better. Contrary to popular myth all slip-ons are not created equal, Some cans due to different length cores, core diameters, length & bends in the mid-pipes & even density of the packing can give different results with peaks & valleys at different points along the rev range. My only guideline to you would be: Don't buy an exhaust for looks alone. Make sure that whatever mod you are doing to your bike doesn't decrease performance by hindering horsepower or adding un-needed weight like shotgun slip-ons etc...

A little hint I would like to add. If the exhaust you are looking at uses the same size tubing to run from the collector to the exhaust cannister (mid-pipe) then it most likely is not going to be the best choice for performance. Premium exhaust manufacturers (Akrapovich, Harris, Moriwaki, Sato) that truly do the R&D to tune the exhaust flow & reversion waves will use tapered sections of tubing that expand as they move toward the cannister while cheap ass companies simply bend a one size piece of tubing to make it fit the bike...

Finally, no exhaust is 100% perfect. No matter how good or reputable a company is they are going to have a certain amount of failures in the field. Leaking cans, loose rivets or even a mis-shipped part in your kit are all things you can almost expect at some point. The issue then becomes customer service & who takes care of their problems with professional results & not just a temporary band-aid to the problem until the next sucker comes along. Personally I feel that if a company is constantly doing development work & trying new things they should be given some leniency if something goes wrong especially in contrast to those companies that never do R&D & have been making exhausts & parts the same way for a decade or more & are still having the same problems today that they had 10 years ago...

& for all you friggin retards that want to hear a .wav file or .mpg file of the exhaust sound for comparisons, quit reading now & take your stupid, ignorant ass somewhere else. Do you really think you can honestly hear an accurate reproduction of how an exhaust sounds through recorded media on the web? I could record the same exhaust from 2 different angles or different distances or with different recorders & you would think it was two completely different exhaust systems. Sound files are a novelty at best & if you are just basing your exhaust purchase on sound alone you won’t be interested in the info I have compiled below

There are 4 main topics addressed on this page:
1. Quality & characteristics of different brands of exhausts
2. Slip-ons vs Full systems
3. Wrapping & coating the headers
4. The new 2-1 exhaust fad

I've had Microns, Moriwaki's & Erions (two sets) on my bike so far & all of them are really great cans with different affects on the engines output. the Erions are qood quality with an excellent finish & without a doubt one of the best bargains for the money, but their fitment onto the bike left a little to be desired on two different installs I have done. The BEST I have used are the Sato Exhausts (aka babyface in Japan) which I have now been using long term & will be sticking with even now that I no longer own an RC51 I have been using Sato products on all my new bikes & they still continue to dominate the dyno comparison tests & their build quality is second to none. Couple those two very important qualities with the fact that the US Distributor (Master Tuner Dan Kyle) also sets the bar by which all other companies are judged for Customer Service & he also gives away free dyno tuned Powercommander maps for all the products he sells (about a $300 value for the map) & you just cannot argue that these are the best exhausts available to us here in the USA. Anyway, The Sato's exhausts are producing phenomenal torque numbers with a very unique configuration of long stepped mid-pipes with short cans & large cores. Even without a Powercommander the Sato's are producing mid-range gains much higher than any other exhaust. Of course the whole concept is that it is a package deal as the Powercommander allows you to fine tune your fueling to match the exhaust flow & I firmly believe that every exhaust distributor should provide free mapping support like Dan does for the exhaust they sell! I mean it should simply be an industry standard. Plus if you ever need replacement parts after finding yourself in the ditch or kitty litter at the track then they are only a phone call away. Unlike other companies that import products for sale Dan keeps all the spare parts in stock so you don't have to miss 6 weeks+ of riding waiting for some part to show up from across the world. Yes I know this sounds like a Dan Kyle commercial, but anybody that has ever dealt with his business will tell you the same thing. He does it better than anyone else!

Additional notes on Sato's: they are now available in 2 mounting configurations as well as carbon fiber that is proven to hold up to the V-twin pulses
Banzai mount-very high mount right up underneath the tail section (no passenger pegs)
Low mount-allows the use of the passenger pegs & in addition also produces the most power of any slip-on tested to date
High mount-these were the originally designed for the 2000-2001 RC51 & are no longer being made

On to some other brands, the Leo Vinci's are another pretty good exhaust, but I do not feel they offer the same value for the dollar as the Sato's do as they are fairly expensive & do not deliver the same performance numbers, but are still much better than average.. I've also heard many reports about the new US distributor that are not very comforting allegedly they are jacking up the prices & customer service is suffering...

The Microns were the first set of slip-ons I installed on the RC & are well made, have a long standing reputation for quality & have unique lateral end cap mounts that provide secure fastening/easy access, but the high mount configuration is an abomination. It was designed purely to fit the bike as an aesthetic afterthought & performance suffers for it as does foot room. I believe that Micron has lost sight of their performance roots & have decided to go after the poser market spending their resources on polished colored cans & colored carbon fiber instead of trying to keep pace with the cutting edge exhaust manufacturers that are truly getting more power out of their exhausts instead of just claiming to. The Erions are alot of bang for the buck with decent power gains & the gloss black powdercoated can is absolutely gorgeous. I have used Erions on every 900RR I have ever owned & recommend them regularly for those riders who are financially challenged. You will not find a better USA made exhaust,but they still pale in comparison to the Japanese quality products. The Moriwaki's build quality is superb, the welds are meticulously done & power gains are easily seen on the dyno & felt through the seat, however with the advent of the new Sato exhausts I have a new favorite. They produce all the low end power that the Mori's had as well as a super healthy mid-range torque curve & with the Fi mappings that Dan Kyle provides free of charge for them there is truly nothing else like them on the market! It must also be pointed out that Moriwaki now has a standard mount Slip-on Exhaust that produce power very similar to the Sato's, not a bad choice if you are not sold on the looks of the Sato's & still want premium power out of your exhaust. In addition Sato continues their R&D long after they have already raised the performance bar to a new level. They actually redesigned the low-mounts after first releasing them so that one core is smaller than the other to better tune the gas flow/back pressure yielding even more gains over what was already the best performance increase on the market.

Micron also has a full system for the RC51, but more than one source has complained of it being ill fitting & difficult to install.

I have very little hands-on tuning experience with Arrow exhausts, but I have seen their craftsmanship & design which is both creative & known for quality, however they have really been slipping as of late. Not that it is pertinent to this exhaust page,but the Arrow rearsets on my RC flexed so much that the eyelet bolt on the master cylinder plunger gouged into my swingarm & many owners have had to send their cans back several times due to severe exhaust leaks around the end caps. To me these types of flaws are just inexcusable considering the technology (& money) today's companies have at their disposal for R&D. The Arrow power curves as seen on the dyno charts are the worst when compared to the other mainstream exhaust manufacturers as they provide a small peaky mid-range, but lose all low end response & topend suffers as well.

Yoshimura is family related to Moriwaki so it is no surprise that the dyno charts are very similar in the fact that both Yoshimura & Moriwaki produce horsepower in the low & midrange where the RC51 needed the power the most. Yoshimura also has a reasonably priced full system available. This another one where bang for the buck is a very substantial value. Yoshimura also offers several of their models with street baffles for a much quieter exhaust tone.

Harris has been another one of those companies that you just can't go wrong with, but as time has gone on more & more owners have not been totally satisfied with their RC51 exhaust cans. Many of them have had problems with insufficient packing material causing the cannisters to badly discolor under normal road use. They do use tapered mid-pipes & do R&D work to make sure that performance gains are actually there before they market their systems, but the gains on the RC51 from their slip-ons are just mildly improved over stock, but they do have a decent hit right at the very top of the rev range, although in truth not many of us actually spend much time with the revs that high.

Hindle products have been pretty much hit & miss in my experience I have bolted up the same model of system to identical bikes & sometimes they fit great & sometimes they don't. I've never really been impressed with any of their power gains, not that they are poor performing they just don't really stand out when compared to the competition & finally they just look cheap without much design effort, kind of like just bend some tubing & slap on a simple sleeve over a core cannister. Now I'm not trying to advocate form over function, but they could certainly use a little creativity or something to use as a selling point since their performance numbers are nominal.

D&D has a good reputation for build quality, their chrome plating is second to none & they can truly withstand crash damage far better than other manufacturers, of course they are also quite heavy. Their carbon fiber isn't as high quality as other brands & fades quickly, in the process it also becomes quite brittle. It seems with all their slip-ons for various models of bikes, performance is increased but only marginally. Decent can, especially for the money, but there are better choices out there.

M4 exhausts on the RC51 are pretty good bang for the buck too, but they aren't anything special & performance gains are just inline with the rest of the low end exhaust systems.

Although I was not originally very keen on the idea of Jardine trying to get in the modern sportbike market, I must say that I am fairly impressed with the quality of their product. Only recently have I heard any negative feedback from owners, but the cans I have seen in person appear to be very well constructed. Jardine also has both street baffles & race baffles as an option. More info on their 2-1 systems below

Akrapovics are touted as the premier exhaust manufacturer in the world, they are also the most expensive & although most people that bought them will never admit they made a mistake & will attest till the day they die that they are the best cans in the world, I have had several Akra owners tell me that while they are put together with the precision & care of a NASA scientist, they aren't worth a crap for performance advantages with the exception of some increased top-end numbers, but come one how often do you ride around at full throttle at redline??? It makes alot more sense to buy a slip-on that gives you the gains where you need it the most in the low & mid-range. I also just recently learned that the Akra doesn't alter the core sizes for the different models of bikes. They have a race core & a street core, but they don't use different size cores to actually help tune the exhaust pulse like other manufacturers use. I expected more from such a high profile company.

HMF & Muzzy slip-ons are available. I have not had any personal experience with HMF, however I have had several reports form owners stating that their cans look pretty worn & that performance gains are nominal. The Muzzy cans I have seen were less than a year old & looked like they had been through Afghanistan literally falling apart (pure crap compared to the better brands that are available)

Once again in my opinion & since this is my site I have no reservations about openly saying that I don't like Two Brothers products. They are ill-fitting, leak way too often & I have personally seen several of the carbon fiber cans burn themselves crispy & not just on twin cylinder machines. Most importantly I see no real advantages in the horsepower gains on most of their systems that distinguishes their numbers from any other manufacturer. Bang for the buck is laughable, as they are way too pricey for what ya get. On the RC however they do turn out some pretty impressive dyno numbers even though the general consensus is their quality is still sub par.

There is alot of controversy over manufacturers like Black Widow, Blue Flame, ART, Wolf, MIG, Renegade & various other obscure & not well known companies that are marketing cans for the RC51 & most of it revolves around negative feedback from people with previous experience. in the beginning I firmly believed that there just wasn't enough credible feedback on most of those companies to pass judgment on them, but I've done enough research & hands-on at this point to basically say with confidence that they are mostly crap... Anytime you stray from the well known reputable companies it's always a gamble to spend your money with them...

One more exhaust company I have to mention is Arata. They got into the RC51 game a little late, but they make a damn fine product with excellent build quality & performance gains. My loyalty still remains with the Sato products due to the incredible customer service & from both the distributor (Dan Kyle) & the parent company themselves (Sato Racing), but you just cannot go wrong with the ARATA stuff either... Both brands fit together perfectly, everytime on every bike. No pulling, pushing, bending or trying to move a bracket into position, everything just fits exactly like it is supposed to every single time

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now we switch to the Slip-ons versus Full Systems argument

The short of it is with the RC51 (for other bikes keep reading) I think that Slip-ons are satisfactory for street riding & I only recommend Full Systems if you intend to do internal engine modifications such as pistons & cams etc...

Exhaust dynamics are a science all their own & then you compound that with jetting or Fi mapping as it is coming to nowadays & you have alot of variables in the finished product. There are so many factors involved in exhaust building: the diameter of the headpipes as well as the radius of the bends directly affect the flow characteristics of the motor, but contrary to popular myth the angle of the bends in an exhaust system aren't near as critical to affecting the performance in either direction as the actual length/diameter of the tubing is or the angles of bifurcation at any collector are. In addition to that there are pulse shockwaves from the valves that need to be tuned to make sure that the pulse lasts long enough to get all the way through the pipe without kicking back and causing interference with the gasses that are trying to escape if that happens then your engine is robbed of horsepower because it has to work harder to get the gasses expelled from the motor & pulse kickback can yield results varying from nothing more than a slight hiccup at a specific rpm to a lull spot that lasts for several thousand rpms in the range. I'm no scientific genius by any stretch of the imagination & I'm sure there are others that can explain it much more thoroughly than I can, but my simple & generic explanation will have to do for now.

All Slip-ons are not created equal! Just as the shape & size of the headpipes affect the gas flow on a similar note the diameter of the cans core as well as the length of the can , the length & shape of the mid-pipes & even the material used for packing will alter the pulses within the system. Slip-ons generally add topend horsepower in exchange for losses in the lowend & frequently mid range too. These can usually be ironed out through rejetting (mapping for you Fi guys), but horsepower is always a trade off somewhere. good midrange usually means less lowend & very little improvement in top end while a system or slip-on tuned for topend will typically result in less low & mid range etc... Look at some of the charts for the Moriwaki Slip-ons, like this one for the Moriwaki versus Arrow Slip-ons they are very unique in the respect that they provide a monster gain in the low rev range & another great gain on the top end, but the mid range does suffer some over other brands of Slip-ons which just further proves my point that it's always a trade off.

Full systems: Again, everything about performance is a trade off. For example you can get cams that offers a strong top end, a good top end with a good mid-range or a great mid-range with a mediocre low end and top end etc... What you can't get is a cam design (at least not with a conventional cam phasing) that allows you maximum hp in all three areas (low, mid & high) of the rev range. Full exhausts are the same. Many full exhausts offer a better top end hit of power at the expense of mid-range performance and usually sacrificing low end power altogether usually along with some throttle response too. There is where you have to ask yourself what you really need in your bike? Do you really spend that much time at redline with the throttle pinned to the stop or would you rather prefer more mid-range power on tap where you spend the majority of your ride time etc... After you answer that question then you need to do some research & decide which full system is good for you. Most do offer better peak gains, but there are exceptions to the rule and in some cases a full system can even hurt performance of a stock bike especially if it is a Full-On Race sytem derived from a Factory Superbike team. I've seen full systems taken from Ex-Factory Superbikes of several different model bikes that actually lose hp when installed on a production based bike like you or I can buy from a dealer. You might score some poser points, but won't gain the power in most cases when you install an exhaust tuned for a 200+ hp race motor on your streetbike.

Most Full systems however marketed for production streetbikes or even for mildly tuned race motors will yield horsepower gains throughout the entire rev range so even though it might not be as much mid-range performance as a certain well designed slip-on it will most likely still make more power than a stock exhaust etc...

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I've come this far I might as well go on with the Exhaust wrap... Exhaust wrapping your headpipes can dramatically alter the gas flow & even the reversion pulse waves, especially beneficial for most stock exhaust headers when used with a slip-on as it tends to allow you to run much stronger in the mid-range (after rejetting). It keeps the exhaust gasses hotter longer which makes them easier to expel out the pipes. We all know that the hotter something is the easier it flows... problem is it is extremely difficult to get the jetting right after the wrapping mod & usually require main jets & needles outside the typical range of off the shelf jet-kits... Also wrapping a Stainless Steel headpipe will rapidly deteriorate the pipe & if you wrap a ceramic coated header, it will turn to ash within 3 months! So in the event any of you follow up on this stuff I only suggest wrapping the stock headpipes due to their heavy construction... The extra heat generated inside the pipes by the wrap will eventually destroy the stock headpipes too, but you can always find stock headpipes for sale just hanging in someone's garage... & to me the added useable horsepower (mid range)is worth replacing the stock headpipes every 3 or 4 years (if you even keep the bike that long) NOW THE KICKER: Although I have experienced gains by doing this mod on many different bikes with inline motors, I have not experienced any appreciable gains with it on the RC51. Now to clarify that statement let say that my first attempt was without the benefit of the PCII to alter the fueling & there were zero changes registered on the dyno with the addition of the exhaust wrap. I do have intentions of trying it again this summer & I'll post my findings at that time. Let me also say that many RC51 owners have found it very beneficial to wrap the rear headpipe where it is in close proximity to the rear shock in an effort to keep the shock cooler from radiated heat & reduce fade. On a related subject & since I am copying most of this from posts I had made on one of the many online forums I frequent earlier today, let's discuss Jet Hot coatings: I do not have any actual experience with the jet-hot coating & the reviews I get from credible people that have had it done are diverse to say the least. I am relatively sure it is a worthwhile investment as in theory it should work great, but for me it's hard to beat a $50 roll of exhaust wrap & maybe some new jets & needles...

Now I'm going to get real opinionated on you... There are lots of things you can do to increase your bikes performance, but they have to be done right. I know tons of people that waste money on aftermarket airfilters for late model sportbikes & swear up & down that their bike now makes more hp, when in truth it usually robs horsepower throughout the rev range, but the placebo effect is in their head cause they just spent $100 on an air filter so it must do something right??? Wrong!

Biggest problem is that many people that tend to do this kind of work don't really understand how to properly jet their bike or they have a cousin that jetted a bike once (followed the instructions, dropped in a jet kit & now they are an expert) & doesn't actually have a clue to the principles of why you change needle heights or mixture screws etc... Then you get people saying "well I wrapped my exhaust & it doesn't do anything" But I'm sure you catch my drift.

Something else I want to touch base on while I have your attention is Dyno Testing. Just because someone knows how to run a dyno doesn't automatically mean they know how to tune your bike or even get consistent comparison runs. If you have a few extra minutes this might interest you dyno tuning basics

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The 2-1 exhaust fad

I disagree with the entire premise of this more midrange power with a 2-1
update: the dyno charts are proving me right...

I have seen many 2-1 systems yield better topend hp & weaken the mid-range like on the Erion Superhawk & numerous Hawk GT systems. That's not to say that with enough piping & tubing you could get just about any result ya want, but it will most likely be a point of diminishing return as the overall power output will most likely be significantly lower (if you were to purposely build an exhaust just to prove a point)

I firmly believe that on the HRC Superbikes that the extra length of piping is taking the jerk out of the mid-range making it a less powerful hit of power & thus more useable, but not "more" mid-range power. Along with that I suppose that top-end may be suffering some, but with 190hp on tap I guess you could stand to lose a couple here or there.

Either way I think alot of people are going to be dissapointed when the final product comes around & it doesn't give you this miraculous mid-range power gain that you have all been dreaming about.

Several manufacturers are currently working on 2-1 exhaust for the RC51, once some of them are on the open market & we can test them then I may need to revise this page, but until I am proven wrong I will stick to what I learned over the years.

Update 06/05/02: The Erion 2-1 full exhaust on the 02 bike is producing dismal power curves even worse than stock & has several issues with overheating the motor as well as scorching the single cannister.

Update 07/18/02:dyno charts of the Erion 2-1 with a terrible mid-range dip

Jardine has admitted that they are having problems with the mid-range with their 2-1 system & Arrow is being very tight lipped about their 2-1 after having made a big showing of the prototype many months ago which to me is most likely indicative of their failed attempts or at least performance issues stemming from the design.

UPDATE: Jardine has released their 2-1 full system & the performance numbers aren't bad, nothing spectacular, but no major drops in performance either. A few owners have commented that it leaves a flat spot in the mid-range, but overall with a price tag of $499 it sounds like a pretty good deal for those that want more performance than stock, less weight (credible reports have it at a whopping 19lbs of weight savings & a price tag of $390) & something fairly unique dyno chart for Jardine 2-1 another dyno chart for Jardine 2-1 supplied by an actual owner (the mid-range dip is pretty severe on this one). There have also been numerous issues of the welded tab breaking off on them as seen here 2-1 Jardine broke

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

One more thing I would like to add: I quite frequently get arguing e-mails sent to me by some upset viewer of this page stating that his brand X cans are the best he has ever had yada yada yada... Well until you have personally owned or experienced a premium exhaust like Moriwaki or Sato you simply cannot understand what a good exhaust is! You may think your $900 exhaust slip-ons are the best thing since sliced bread because you paid so much for them or because they are loud (some people really use that for an arguement) & yes it did increase your horsepower, but then again you can remove the mufflers & run an open header & still see an increase in power... A premium exhaust not only gives you added performance, but you get high build quality as well not just one or the other or in some cases neither... All you have to do is look at the classifieds you see all kinds of exhaust for sale all the time like Two Brothers or Microns etc from people that are looking to "upgrade", but you rarely see Moriwaki or Sato exhausts for sale because nobody has a reason to get rid of them & there is nothing more to "upgrade" to. (just something to think about).

Feel free to contact me with any specific questions you might have & I will do my best to get you a researched answer. Or if you feel that any information on this page is blatantly wrong please contact me with proof otherwise.

Back to the ROGUE Homepage

(C) 2001, 2002, 2003, 2004 www.rc51.org ROGUE

I can take a joke especially if it means I get some specific info. If it takes other people starting threads on my behalf, I'll take it. I don't want to buy an exhaust system that disappoints me. Thanks for all the info!

kawnow wrote:

First you want a Tsukigi Cannon then an Alien head now a M4. You are afraid of losing low end performance.

Actually this goes back about a year. It was M-4s, then A head, then Cannon, then back to M4s - maybe, now Yoshi R77 - maybe. I'm feeling the best about the A head for looks and sound but I have got to hear some people tell me it won't lower my performance in bottom and midrange. I asked at bikeland months ago and got the green light but of course, I'm asking a bunch of hardcore dragracers over there and of course they are going to love 4-2-1s.

I think I will go back over there and ask dubious. I'll share my findings back here. In the mean time, more comments, please!

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/10/2009 @ 4:01 PM *

Go with the alien head.

Heh

^^It's a very popular choice for drag racing but all around performance, I don't know. Brock said I 'won't have a problem handling it on the street' but if that is because I have less power at low rs or partial throttle, do I want it? As much as i would love to take the bike to Great Lakes Dragway and try my hand at racing, I know I won't have the money to keep up on repairs and tires. I'm sure I will use the 14 for an all around commuter/street thrill bike as I always have.

I like kawnow's description on his Yosh system. Be nice to hear someone describe street riding 1100 - 3500 rpm with an A-head.

I don't want to buy an exhaust system that disappoints me

That would not be the Alien Head or a shorty Gen 3!!!

^^^You're the guy I have been waiting on, Stan. You had the stock exhaust and went to an A-head. Tell me what the dif is from idle to 3.5K----PLEASE.

Started a thread on bikeland too.

Cool... here to help!

Like this- top dog powerwise and very sexy IMHO.

Now which one keeps the tickets down?

Rook you gotta decide what you want from your bike. If you want the most peak power and don't mind keeping the r's up to get it, then a top end oriented pipe like the A-head might be for you. If you like to cruise at lower revs most of the time and aren't really a high revver, and want a little bigger spread of power, then something along the lines of the yosh may be better. If you really want the rush of the most acceleration you can get out of the 14 then you need to go full system. There's a very substantial sotp diff between slips and a full system. The stock system is designed as an all-round pipe...any 4-1 system will compromise that some, it just depends on where you want the extra power. I'm a big proponent of slip-ons, ran them on both the 14 and busa, and they both gave sotp gains imo that were worth the investment. But they don't compare to a full system. For maximum gain a full system is the only real choice, it just depends how much power you're looking for And if you have turbo plans down the road save the 1000+ dollars you'd spend on an exhaust and put it in the turbo fund Don't worry so much about dyno numbers, they can be skewed for a 100 diff reasons...all the big name pipes will be close in power, they'll just deliver it slightly differently. Also whatever pipe you get, you'll adjust to its characteristics and how to ride the bike to get the pipes performance. I say get what really calls to you, don't overthink it

I can't believe nobody suggested a CRACK PIPE !!!

Whata bunch of "stifs"

lol

Rook you gotta decide what you want from your bike. If you want the most peak power and don't mind keeping the r's up to get it, then a top end oriented pipe like the A-head might be for you. If you like to cruise at lower revs most of the time and aren't really a high revver, and want a little bigger spread of power, then something along the lines of the yosh may be better. If you really want the rush of the most acceleration you can get out of the 14 then you need to go full system.

Good write up B in B, I couldn't have said it any better.

Kruz

I think I can retain pretty close to stock performance with the M4s and love the look and sound of the bike. I can improve overall performance with a Yoshi full system and it will be a fairly quiet running bike for the street. The A-head will give me good appearance and sound and probably about the best peak hp but when I want to go fast, I'm going to have to drop down a gear or two which I often do already for the excitement of it. I simply have to decide how i want to be riding the 14. The possibility of owning the busa or the ZX-10 has a lot to do with that. See, it's a little more complex than just "what pipe." I have other bikes and other mods that I don't even own yet to consider.

Whoa Rook, slow down and focus, now you're throwin Busas and a ZX-10 into the mix.

Kruz

^^It's all in there whirlin' around. Several expensive choices I will have to live with for a long time so I'm doing my best to plan this in a way that makes the most sense....even though I know a lot of people think it makes no sense at all. LOL

BIG picture.

Rook,, get the M4's now,,, if you dont like them Ill buy them from you for $350... no questions... lolol

Im about to jump on these ,,, next commision check,,,,,,,,,,lalalala

^^BUUhhahahaha! You R sly, silvr.

Hey Big K, I'm just tryin' to help Rook the same way you helped me, when I wasn't sure exactly which way to go with my 14, and who I should get my map/pc combo from. You were a big factor in my choosing Ivans set-up with the slips...and I loved the heck outta that choice I'm actually going to miss it in some ways I just hope we can help Rook be as happy with his choice
And Rookster, if you go with what is really calling to you, I bet you'll be plenty happy Bikes are an emotional hobby, they don't always make sense...but the neat thing is they don't have to, as long as you're happy

* Last updated by: BadinBlack on 8/11/2009 @ 4:37 PM *

I went to two wheel tuesday this evening and I saw a lot - I mean A LOT of Yoshi mufflers but all of them were cans with the short length of pipe coming out of the back. I saw one tri-oval Yoshi called the TRC and that seemed to look pretty close to the Yoshi R-77. The guy let me hear it and I liked the sound. It was quiet at idle but it had a viscious howl at 3-4 K rpm. Don't let the refined looks of that pipe fool you, it doesn't take much to make it roar. I would be very happy with that sound.

I'm getting the same feedback at bikeland as i am here which makes me feel good about what I am considering choosing from. Encouraging remarks about the A-head even for street riding although i have yet to hear anyone boast that they are getting big improvement in the low/midrange. Also, a number of recommendations for Yoshimura.

Brocks has come out with a new dual full system in titanium called the CT-Dual. It is beautiful, and they have a sound video with it and it sounds great too.

The real winner for it, is in dyno tests (apples to apples, all on the same dyno) the CT-Dual made more HP just about throughout the range than the CT-Single, the Alien-Head, or the older Gen3.

4-2-1-2 and it beats all of Brocks other full systems (for street bikes).

And it has O2 bungs as delivered.

I was sold on the Muzzy M14 (and may remain so) but the new Brocks CT-Dual is awesome, and you can tell Brocks put a lot of engineering and testing into developing it.

Hey Big K, I'm just tryin' to help Rook the same way you helped me, when I wasn't sure exactly which way to go with my 14, and who I should get my map/pc combo from. You were a big factor in my choosing Ivans set-up with the slips...and I loved the heck outta that choice

Glad I could help big guy! I was looking for that same kind of coaching on the Honda but couldn't find it on any of the CBR forums. You'd think I had dropped in from outer space when I asked about what pipe gave the best throttle response and smoothest midrange power. They all seem to be hung up on peak dyno numbers....me, I'll take 150 silky smooth ponies any day over a peaky 160. A lot of people on the Honda sites talk trash on the Yoshimura but when you ask why..... they don't have an answer. It seems they have an aversion to Mat Mladin and team Yoshimura/Suzuki kicking their butts year after year in AMA racing. It may turn out the Yoshi 4-2-1 is as good as it gets for a full system for my bike. I thought long and hard about Akro or Sato slipons which prolly would have been just what the doctor ordered but in the end went for the big numbers. Anyway, we're not talking chump change here, mistakes are costly...rook think it over really good before dropping a wad.

Kruz

^^If i wanted to really drop a wad, I might go for that CT duals. I bet the performance is outstanding but it must be at least twice as heavy as an A-head. It would imagine it is quieter. IMO, it doesn't look as good as small exhaust like the M4 retros or the A-head but I think it is a clear winner for performance. That's what I was looking for, a clear winner...but $2,000??

Here's the dyno charts on the A-head vs CT duals vs stock (there was one for peak power and one for mid power but they looked like the same chart to me). Both pipes show an improvement over stock from the bottom up. The CT looks like it would increase smoothly from idle based on what the graph line is doing in the first 1K rpm registering. The A-head looks like it took a little more to wind it up. The CT duals have a bit of an improvement over the A-head in midrange and a few ponies more on top. CT duals seem like a good choice for speed but not all that much better than an A-head, I don't think.

http://www.brocksperformance.com/dyno_charts/ZX14%20CT%20SERIES/ZX-1406_CTD_vs_AH_PEAK_800.jpg

One way to justify the cost is to compare the price and hassle of owning and switching between an A-head and Brock's conversion can when you want something quieter and longer. If you go with CT duals, you have quieter, longer and slightly better performance all in one. Your set for 2 up touring or racing. The drawback is the additional weight of the duals but I'm sure it is still way lighter than stock.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/12/2009 @ 9:26 AM *