Guys lots of talk about ECU Flashes these days and there will be more as more of us get into it.

what we offer is taking the corks out. In my opinion this is by far the best wake up call our big girl will ever get. I highly recomend it. Much Much cheaper than buying all the hardware & software.

So where is the snake oil ? Well let me explain. Kawi has made a great motor, which, with the plugs out can only make a given amount of horse power. All of us that tune this can only offer what is already in front of you. We have no more to give you. Hence, Snake oil.

In my study from the day this bike came out there has been many Dyno sheets put out by many different vendors. Lots brag hp & torque #'s . All have different scales to represent what the #'s represent.

So how do we as a vendor determine what is important us ?? Let's take Twenty ZX-14Rs does anyone really think it is possible to extract more power from each one if the challenge was laid down ? Fact is all we can give is the same for all. Yes different for all bikes but dame close.

Today I asked about what scale,,, my bad. My attempt was to show a member here that his 200 hp may have been a great # compared to a different scale. That was all. My beliefe still is if you have flies out and are tuned all we can sell you is bull shit. Yes flies may offer 2 to 4 hp top end and that is all. good luck if you can feel it.

For the masses lots to know about scales and what is straight in front of you...

Woolich has aloud us tuners to go in and play inside the ECU. This is a great thing, I love it. But is it really a good thing ???,,,, who controlls me,,, Ans = no one. I'm free to ramp up all to infinity. So,,, do you trust me,, Ok, based on what ? Here kitty kitty, oil for sale.

We can now go in to your ECU and give you MAX,,,, why did Kawi not do it ? I know, I know emissions, but please think if I offer you Much Much More,,, be carefull how did I do it. do you guys realy believe we out performed Brock Ivan Don Guhl with the same bike,,,, ? As much as I would love to buy into that my head is not that big.

In my study I'm only trying to find a SAE #s Smoothing 5. If I can find 5 the same I'm onto something. Problem is if I ask people, they get back hair up. STD was 16 years ago but still is fine just give me ten the same. Untill that day ?

ZXracer I'm sure your flies out PCV mapped will run with any here. This post was for you only as I have read your threads. All we can give you is more timing,,,, ask your self why they did not ?

I know this thread will bother some,,, I kept quiet once before to my shame. Trust me only if you dare,,, cheers.

Good read click

Click Scale

Ya...good read...what I could understand of it anyway....;)I wonder...should I take my stock ECU to the dyno guy and then run both?That might be cool?Same dyno...same session.

I wonder...should I take my stock ECU to the dyno guy and then run both?

No stock ECU is a turd. What would be best is a map made at your elevation. If you want absolutely the most you can get out of her ???.

Wow, grn now my head hurts. You run my best work. Thinking,,,, Ahhhhh.

Grn you have the best of IVAN and my best at your thumb,,, so two maps = big money. 300 per side = yuk. I'm sure a pro tuner could extract a bit more from both but at what cost ??? Like I was saying above the big girl has no more to give.

You have tried all of our maps, your opinion is what counts. Hey if money was no object ????

Justin is making us Auto Tune. May be a ways off. That map made with ram Air in real time ECU fuel cells will be to die for,,,sooooon. If you can wait I will send you a copy ? If not go for Exact tune on that day with a pro. please ask for both std and sae for my study,, thanks Grn

Okay...will do...Flashed ECU(yours)and STD/SAE..with printouts;)

"you can wait I will send you a copy ?"...I can get on that dyno at a week in advance..so redoing it again with whatever adjustments you make is very doable.You just let me know what ya want....I'm not going anywhere...except out to ride and enjoy;)(boy am I)LOL!!!

"extract a bit more from both"...in all honesty...I don't think there's much more to 'extract'...(IMO)...she's a killer right now;)You know I mentioned I haven't REALLY tapped into this bird all the way yet....she's amazingly strong and 'almost' scarey with what's possible in my throttle hand.I know there's a bunch more in her..I'm just trying not to get myself killed!I have to ramp this motor up a bit at a time...see how she responds.Like I said...it's truly a different motorcycle since your flash....amazingly.I've never ridden anything like it....

Tell ya one thing...I've been running since day one with KTRC 'off'...and doing okay.But come fall...when the roads start cooling off...I don't think I'm gonna be able to get away with that for long.Not the way she powers up and all now.The combos of downshifting and upshifting and powering in and out of corners...there's way more here than I'm dipping into.I aint afraid to say....I HAVE to be careful.I wish I could see what this bike is capable of in the hands of an expert.Sheesh.

This is gonna sound really stupid probably,but such a simple thing as a correct drivechain adjustment REALLY lays the performance of this bird onto the ground.I couldn't believe how much it helped the overall feel of her just with that small amount...not even two MM's...but it really made everything click much better...if that's possible.I could really feel it...and it wasn't way out of adjustment at all...I've been paying more attention to this area with this bike...it seems very sensitive to things.

The handling has actually gotten more stable and responsive since you flashed her...IDK why exactly,but she drops in and corners a lot better...I can't really describe it...it's much more fun now....in every way.These Angel GT's are very good tires...I'd say the best I've ever run...

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/30/2013 @ 2:20 AM *

I glossed over the dynojet dyno instructions. It recommends 4 pulls before calling a number out. Why? Heat makes HP. So this chemical reaction needs to warm up before it starts showing its teeth. You pay for 3 pulls, he just warmed up your bike, and the 4th pull would have said different, let alone the 5th pull.

Next is that cleaning of the dyno's filter and that sniffer used how many times before your bike was strapped to it? And too, the atmo redial. Say I dial in the atmo sensor at sea level, where it's built: for argument sake. It's shipped to a 400ft elevation shop. Should the guy immediately redial in the atmo to zero if it's a touch off from the factory? Wouldn't you want that calc number? That pressure change is still a change to the chemical reaction.

So, temp of room/humidity in the room, what distance from sea level is the less dense oxygen the higher you go, plus don't forget to pop your ears for elevation pressure too. Sea all those variables floating around that calls the HP number? So yes, your bike needs a zero sea level base number and watch it drop the higher in elevation you go.

You crisscross over to SAE, it's going to spit out another number just as low/high. And then, where are your valves set? Where is the compression number? Drill it into your head you come up against 220psi and yours is 178psi... Cut me a fucking break with the numbers you start calling out your dick size.

I lay out the red carpet for you to place yourself on. You can't use the HP now, and you want more? Why don't you pussy out the bike come winter time? Stand up if the back end comes around! You want more HP so the back end comes around sooner?... OK, I get it.

I'll tell you straight up right now ROMANS. If you dig your heels in and try arguing with me on this one, I will make you look stupid. I will because I know what EVERY NUMBER IN THAT ECU DOES. Until you have that same knowledge, you will be arguing from a point of ignorance.

C not every thing is something to fight about. This Not bikeland. All here have the right to know ?

ok, Please prove my point for me.

1. ZX-14R your Flash or mine or Hubs any ones

2. ZX-14R Don Guhl Flash with Brock Map Flies Out.

Place on Dyno

When the two AFR's line up so will the power is my guess. If you can offer more you must tell us all, how ?

will make you look stupid

Ouch, You would not be the first,,, show me the Dyno Run ?

Romes, I am being harsh because I feel like no one is hearing me.

I think your wrong here. Every one is hearing you C. Being nasty about it won't change a thing. No reason for Harsh capitol words. We can't scare people into liking our flash lol. As for the #'s we use, most likely the masses could care less. Most just want a good reliable bike that goes like hell. The Math is important to us tuners only and is truly interesting.

Aslo, Logic dictates we all end up with close to the same tune as the finial # will be all she's got. No Harm in saying so ?

I could talk to you about this all day as this is my passion. But at the risk of looking stupid with anger added in that's me out tap tap tap lol. Remember This is My Hobby Only. I was glad I could share it with others as it is truly a awesome bike after the flash. All should have it.

C, I would like to talk to about using that N ignition map in your flash some day. Lots I could add here as I have road tested it for months and have great detail in using it in it's many different variations. I think you will find with road testing it's not as nice as you may think. May look good on the dyno but ???? Before you flash it into others spend some time with it. I'm only saying this to help, do not come after me I'm to old to keep running lol Maybe when the smoke clears we can talk Civil. Untill then have fun with your new bike Congrats well done.

Romans thank you for this thread ( since it was for me) I agree with 100% with what you said. With your flies out and a simple tune and exhaust you won't notice any real world difference in just a flash. We can all take different paths there but at the end ON THE SAME DYNO we all get to the same place. I love what you and cblast have done, you guys can do to your bikes what most of us simple guys can't figure out on are own, and need someone to do it for us and pay for it. But with my brocks full exhaust and his great tune on a PC5 with my flies removed I bet my bike would put out the same power if not a little more than just a flashed bike. But since we live to far away from each other I guess this will just remain an Internet dick measuring contest. All are bikes are imo all pretty much the same friggin beast. Again roman great thread I appreciate you taking the time to type it, for I feel the same way. Couldn't have typed it better myself.

"Romes, I am being harsh because I feel like no one is hearing me"...take a breath C...nothing to be pissed about...it's a forum...some listen,some don't,and some just don't 'give a shit'...sa'll good Bro...It's excellent you see what you see.If your machine is running as you say it is...(which I don't doubt at all)....that's very cool.You've done well in a very short period of time. Hub's losing his perspective...he's starting to bait me...LOL!The deal is the flash...not me.LOL!!!

"Romans thank you for this thread ( since it was for me) I agree with 100% with what you said. With your flies out and a simple tune and exhaust you won't notice any real world difference in just a flash"...I'm not so sure that's what he intimated there Z...mine was night and day...with flies in AND NO pcv .Mine certainly changed it's characterLOL!!!!Just the flash...that's it.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/30/2013 @ 9:50 AM *

And for the record and being friends with cblast, I don't think romans was starting any shit at all, just stating a simple fact. That are bikes are are bikes, you can only open up what's already there. But thete are plenty of ways of doing it. Hell you ALL proved it already. Different ways ( different flashes, flies just removed completely etc etc) and all end up roughly 200hp and same tq on the same place on the dyno charts. Can't we all just get a long here, maybe sit around a camp fire and sing kumbaya!!!!!

I don't know about Kumbaya...but yer absolutely KEERECT Z.Everyone just breathe....

Hub said..."You can't use the HP now, and you want more?"...hell,I haven't even used the flashed HP yet...or whatever it isLOL!!!Call it...overkill...I'm cool with that;)TC will save me...that and ABS...right?;)

Anyone here enjoy saying..."that's all ya got?"...concerning their bikes?I don't.I doubt I'll EVER max this 'new' engine out all the way(learn it's full potential that is).I'm good with that.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/30/2013 @ 9:57 AM *

Romans thank you for this thread ( since it was for me) I agree with 100% with what you said. With your flies out and a simple tune and exhaust you won't notice any real world difference in just a flash. We can all take different paths there but at the end ON THE SAME DYNO we all get to the same place

Exactly, there should be no HOT button here. Getting mad drives people with knowledge under ground and then No One will post. bike land all over again.

But with my brocks full exhaust and his great tune on a PC5 with my flies removed I bet my bike would put out the same power if not a little more than just a flashed bike.

If were betting I'll put up a thousand you are 100% correct.

But since we live to far away from each other I guess this will just remain an Internet dick measuring contest.

ROFL, If I'm aloud to tape on some popsicel sticks with full a roll of black tape I'm in.

Again roman great thread I appreciate you taking the time to type it, for I feel the same way. Couldn't have typed it better myself.

It's kinda like...opening the throttle on yer new bike...and having it limit at 95LOL!!!Know what I mean?Or riding in L3 all the time...and thinking...WOW....what a monster Imagine if ya COULDN'T get her outta L3....OMG...sorry...forget I said that;)

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 8/30/2013 @ 10:03 AM *

Sure is purdy. I like my color better lol. Secret wax.

Romans I take EVERYTHING BACK. I now hate you after seeing your garage, you suck!!!!!!! Yes guys jealous is a bitch. He even has a goddam nice lawnmower, probably has it flashed to cut the lawn faster and smoother too.......hahaha yep had to go there!!

* Last updated by: zx14racer on 8/30/2013 @ 10:51 AM *

I think we all want the same thing, that is smooth powerband, but as much power and torque at every increment in the throttle without being "choppy" or have flat spots etc ... At least that is what I am after .....

To me the more smooth torque sooner in the throttle opening, the better ...

And what romans is saying is that they are all so close you could never really tell any difference. And I agree. Hell my 14r since I've had her has been thru many stages and she has NEVER ever been choppy or any flat spots on this friggin bike that's for dam sure. And if somebody here has a 14R that is, has messed up somewhere and should go back to stock and start again. It's pretty hard imo to fuck up this bike, it's that dam good. Now more importantly let's get back to romans garage!!!!

* Last updated by: zx14racer on 8/30/2013 @ 11:12 AM *

I am visiting the garage in two hours. I want to see the product you used to shine her up like that Romes.
It's like POP!!!

Hey wolf when you go there grab me that mower will ya. I heard it has the roman flash!!!!!!!!!!! Fast and smooth.

* Last updated by: zx14racer on 8/30/2013 @ 11:50 AM *

Romans I take EVERYTHING BACK. I now hate you after seeing your garage, you suck!!!!!!! Yes guys jealous is a bitch. He even has a goddam nice lawnmower, probably has it flashed to cut the lawn faster and smoother too.......hahaha yep had to go there!!

ROFL,,, just spit out me Tea..... That was a barn. Took me 7 months to build it into that. I was was thinking 3 weeks,,,wrong. Still missing a PS4 and a 80 inch screen for Call Of Duty. Beer fridge is always full though,,,, on me,,, anyone in ????

C your yelling at me again. Mean - E

HAHA funny you just said that romans, I just bought an 80 sharp 3d tv with bose system, it's perfect. Call of duty would be nuts on it though!!!

* Last updated by: zx14racer on 8/30/2013 @ 2:17 PM *

I just bought an 80 sharp 3d tv with bose system, it's perfect. Call of duty would be nuts on it though!!!

any pics ?

Might not look as big to you but it's in a room with cathedral ceilings.

We thought it might look to big, but once they came out to set it up we were like dammmm we could of got the 90 incher!!!!!!

* Last updated by: zx14racer on 8/30/2013 @ 3:06 PM *

YO Romes...what the heck happened with yer Black Mamba?Geez...it was Black,right?