If you have one, how do you like? Any drawbacks? Why do bikes come stock with an automatic tensioner instead of a manual? Why does the manual tensioner stop the noise?

this should explain it rook

Manual Cam Chain Tensioners

APE manual cam chain tensioners are designed to replace the automatic and hydraulic tensioners on high performance engines. The automatic adjusters can back out when the throttle is closed suddenly at high rpm. This allows the cams to go momentarily out of time, and can result in bent valves and/or serious engine damage. Hydraulic tensioners have a tendency to put too much tension on the chain guide under high rpm/high oil pressure conditions, resulting in premature wear.

Both problems can be eliminated with the installation of the APE manual tensioner. No matter what the engine does, the cam chain tension will remain constant. An APE manual cam chain tensioner is a must for any kind of performance riding. (Part No. shown at right)

Almost makes me want to get one almost.

ive got 1 on my 9. it works good but they did tell me to check it and adj it if need be every 5000 miles. guess it all depends on how you ride your bike, if its just a cruiser then i wouldnt worry bout it

Might wanna PM billeason, Rook. There was talk, a while ago, about him having modified 12r tensioners for the 14. They hold tension with a spring rather than hydrolic pressure, but still self adjust.

Que Hub in 5,4,3,2,...

Almost makes me want to get one almost.

Happy with mine. Nothing bad to report. Cheers.

Thanks Dogo. Maybe I will PM billeason and ask him to post. Thanks everyone else, too. The APE is pretty inexpensive. Actually one mod that is definitely a good investment for resale because you will avoid scaring 'em off with the rattle on start up.

i watched a vid on installation and it looked like the side of the engine case was removed to find top dead center on the timing wheel thingamajiggy. The case will require a new gasket, right?

To readjust every 5,000 miles, would it be necessary to pull the cover off the side of the motor or can it just be screwed in or out a bit and reset the locknut?

(Yeah, go easy on us Hub>>>>.)

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/23/2010 @ 9:54 PM *

rook adj are done at the tensioner just back off the lock nut and take the bolt in a tad. ive had mine on my 9 for 2 yrs no adj needed yet.

rook i don't have any wright now but if you can find a zx12 tensioner all you need to do is have a machinist take .120 ths off the gasket surface of it.
The 12's is a little to short so removing this amount sits it wright.
Carpenter sells them for around 120.00 or so and its costly but he has to buy them new 76.00 bucks then mod them.
When we could get the tensioners used and mod them it kept the price down' but they are getting hard to find used.
If you want i can mod one for you but its real simple to do it ,and if you can come up with used its cheaper then a manual adjuster,plus you never have to adjust it.
LMK and i can look for one for you .I have a couple used ape manuals for 35.00 if you want one,but my opinion is to spend the extra if necc,and do the 12. wallce@comcast.net if you want to contact me i'll be glad to help out...Bill

I just reread your post Rook' and becareful about the manuals not needing adjustment!
Some may get away with it but in the end it will bite you.
Proper maintenance dictates periodically adj,the cam chain tension.
Again don't over complicate installing the tensioner regardless of the type you use.
Remove oem ,clean new one ,stick it in with large tension bolt/spring out,tighten
the two small bolts holding it to block[ THIS ENTIRE TIME NOT ROTATING THE MOTOR] Then install the spring,then torque the large bolt,you will here the paw ratcheting as you do this and your done.
This is for the 12 ten,obviously ..........Bill

* Last updated by: billeason on 12/24/2010 @ 6:41 AM *

...4-3-2-1...

Stock: I have that noise and like an oil light, it takes less than a second to know the top end is full of oil. No only that, I leave like in an instant check my vids. No, I do not wait for the oil to warm up. Yes, I am off to the races real slow. Not a peep from that bike it is oil tight at every pressure point. Do I wind up the rpm and bring the binders down with all that action on and off the throttle? Works for me and no one modded that area at the factory unless you all cry about it LOL >> "Go light on us, hubby?"

APE: She's a bulletproof part. What more do you need to know? The video says some tensionsers fail? He did not say what brand so how valid is that. Never heard a tensioner design for the bike fail. We want to strip bolts out of the housing and now who failed the part.

Dave, in the video: Explains to back her out a 1/4 of an inch? Yeah, if he pulled his dick out that far he fall the fuck out! Fuu-Fuu-uck-ing stock tensioner is not set at a 1/4" back >> Geeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee HAaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa << Icon! Davy poo-poo'd in his vid, and now be light on the guy? Foo-foo-fucking wreck your bike and now the tensioners faa-faa-FAIL <<< Icon photo!

You sure will not blame the APE. Already said it was bulletproof in the right hands I guess? We have, or we want to find a wave in the chain. We should find a high spot if any. If the cams were never touched, or if the chain matched gear, you might find zip. Like there is not too much in high spotting we will go at the cam chain jumping. First thing first is chase the high spot.

Rook, this is more for the experienced hand you keep the cam cover on. But for you and more you learn bike if you want to play race part, pop the valve cover off and watch your work. Yank out all the spark plugs. This turns the crank easier. Last thing you want to do is run the crank backwards with the tensioner hole empty. Same goes as if said mod was in place and ready to set tension. The arm is retracted enough to 'possibly' roll a tooth over the exhaust and then the spring of a valve gets to push the exhaust cam's valve [down] on a piston and there you go - Tink!; was all it took.

The Rookie Loophole: Say I lied and you do not need the cover off because you can do this, Rook. This way is too easy. It does not matter where we are at that crank we turn the key off. Wherever that crank landed, we can yank the tensioner out and install the APE with one hand.

Because with the other hand, you are holding tension at the crank in said, 'running direction.' This is more advanced, but lets be safe for the first time and find either 1 or 4's TDC compression. If we cannot see an intake go down and then come back up; this is now the compression stroke you see the intake close, we set that mark to the spit of the back of the case, or the left side and match the split - > at the case half-to the tone wheel's "-" < that has a slash mark at the edge of the wheel.

If we look at the right crank cover, we can wipe the case face dry of oil and now wipe the cover with o-ring clean of oil. Just wipe dry with a paper towel. Shit is sharp at the case so look out! You can reuse the cover as long as it doesn't leak you place it back on. No leak, leave alone. She leaks, replace the o-ring, she went flat without pushing herself back out to seal.

Looking at the left side of the split of the engine case, that is our zero mark for cam timing; we need to change shims. We also have the cams more relaxed as much as we can get away with, meaning, 4 under some sort of tension and the other 4 ready for valve adjustment checks without any tension on the chain to walk. Get it?

Screw that. We now know our 4 weak links are at rest we still hold tension at the crank so as not to move forward or back. Our other hand is at the ready to install the tensioner first with the center screw all the way back or as far back as needed to install the body down. We hand tightened the body screws to their bottom. We have the center bottomed to the slipper arm.

Now we can relax the crank. We can tighten the body bolts and now back to the crank. Here, we again, load but not move a degree of that crank say. Our hand is back at the center adjuster and we now hand it home ever so slight, we can use our pinkie to break it loose.

OK, since we now have a base times 4 clock turns to see who binds up against the center adjuster or who, at what 12-3-6-9 0'clock degree did the tension become loose or tight = Ding! Ding! We found our high-low spot. If we just slammed it any old place, we would have Dave's 1/4" out now dangerously way out! Who knows how much a 1/4 out is the APE's threads times distance? It might be way too much for all I know? There goes the cam tooth on someone's instruction of said strange bike?

This is where we have to find that happy medium between both the tight and loose chain whip. You are safe if you load crank in running direction and move it, then, NEVER BACK OFF! All the tension is slacked at the rear, the front is taught. Here is your ideal scenario. We have zero high spot. We then can set that center stopper and kiss the slipper. Yes, kiss that slipper and do not back out any 1/4 shit.

We want that center pin just kissing that slipper like do not compress her lips you kiss her that light and now tighten the nut down you are done = No valve cover off.

The 12Mod Tensioner:

Follow book procedure if you have one. You need the valve cover off to set the trigger. That plunger needs to be snap out for the automatic to set itself if the 12 is anything like the 14's tensioner. And there you have it. Dave needs to be thrown under the bus and his 1/4 ass out the plumber cleavage bend over.

As far as time? I heard 5k intervals. Seems right for a street bike. But book says you beat shit out of it in 20 minute intervals like a few races times 5 or 6 races you be all over that tensioner is the ideal way to approach the proper tension. Because you might as well play radiator fan and see how many times that thing goes on and off you act the fan switch... Then act the cam tensioner. This is a racing part. Race is high maintenance and well worth those moves. Couch potato I stay stock because I am one lazy ass.

Thanks Scotty, Bill. Hub, thanks x2. I was sure you would tear me a new one for even thinking about changing the stock CCT.

Think I will go with a new APE since I am working up a Schnitz order anyway.

I was sure you would tear me a new one for...

For WOT? Your bike. Your call. I'm saving every dime for the next fasthing. There is nothing wrong with the unit, technically. I did mention it might have a high maintenance adjustment like staying up with the sync. And we do not follow book intervals on the sync. Too high performance to not tackle that as if staying right on top of that chain is a t-hand spin away.

Manual chain adjustments are a pain and yes, if you want cam whip to stop, then take care of the chain whip.

Manual chain adjustments are a pain

Lol, Hub is this really you. Turning a little bolt once and awhile a "Pain" Lol. Lets see some ID.

Sorry could not help my self. Weeeee

My wallet has the same picture. Now wait here. Did I say a t-handle away or a toilet flush away. Like I said, my time is taken up these days LOL... I can't help it even if I met nature itself and asked it what the fuck it was thinking! I have shitoodew like squirt out the tears I read some of the remarks in here.

Manual tensioners are only a pain to adjust if you don't get them right. Too loose and you beat the chain and guides up and lose a tiny bit of performance from your cam timimg being slightly off. Plus if you happen to over rev one too many times you can jump a tooth or 2 and possibly introduce the valves to the pistons If they're too tight you over stress the chain, prematurely wear the guides out, and loose a tiny bit of power from the tight chain resistance. Plus a weak chain can pop on you and introduce LOTS of valves to pistons Fortunately those things don't happen right away, it can takes thousands of miles before you find out the ugly truth I've owned over 80 machines, and have never had a problem with the ones that came with stock auto tensioners I wouldn't go to a manual unless you plan on doing some hardcore racing. Otherwise you'll get longer life out of your guides and cam chain with a stocker. There's guys on here with almost 80,000 miles on their stock bike/tensioners without a prob. And I've heard many stories like that. I like auto and was glad when they started going that route. Kinda like when they did away with points for electronic ignition Thats just how I roll

Allot said with few words bad. Well put for sure. But still, I must ask,,,,,Why,,,?

My bike had no rattle on start up until she reached 10,000 KM. Then, Something Changed. What ?

To me, rattles or sounds usually spell impending Doom or lack of maintenance. I too liked the Auto forget set up but,,,, If it was Supposed To Rattle and always did it, well, I'm sure I would have just lived with it, the nature of the beast U know. Lol

I just think the auto adjuster gets Lazy lol

Well, have one APE on order from Schnitz. At least I'll get to know a little more about the timing and valves. If I don't feel comfortable with adjusting the thing, it was only $50. The price of an oil change.

I just think the auto adjuster gets Lazy

Not lazy... just a part time employee. I'd bet your's was in between the adjustment notches when it got noisey on you, Romans. If you'd given it a bit longer to adjust itself, it probably would have clicked into the next notch and quieted down. From what I've read, there is half the space between those notches on the 12r tensioner. Not tryin' to convince anyone of anything. Just puttin' it out ther for anyone who wants a quiet cam chain but might be scared or turned off by adjusting a manual tensioner.

What changed?The little tiny pressure spring just gave up the ghost.As far as adjusting....my my my....EVERYONE has a time with this one !

Here's a tad of "expertise" for ya....1)how much pressure you think that TEENSY TINY spring loads on that piston in there?(you HAVE seen that spring,yes?)Have ya looked at the oil passage hole size?....okay...TEENSY TINY.You guys.So.....BARELY ANY PRESSURE.The feed hole's TINY....the cam chain tensioner body feed hole is....TEENSY.

Okay...#2)How much slap do you think is in that cam chain?Gotta shoe shoe here,shoe shoe there.Shoe here shoe there...everywhere a shoe shoe.

Lesson 3)..here's a nugget... ....Where is the cam chain tensioner pushing at on the chain? Give up guys?...okay....on the rear RUN of the cam chain."Yeah,so?" you query.

Shall I?.....okay....the top run and front side run need no adjustable pressure...they both have a moveable shoe to cover their arses "just in case".Which will only allow a specific amount of chain flex.In other words Laddies...they aint goin nowhere soon...not even with a "loose chain" goin on.

Moving along now...we have the FINAL OBSERVATION.#4 if you will."IT PUTS THE LOTION IN THE BASKET".....you PREADJUST by MEASURING THE DISTANCE FROM OUTSIDE HOUSING FLANGE(on the motor)...to that pesky cam chain.(a dowel will work perfecto!)You use a tender touch...nothing manly...push that dowel in there against the chain...see how far she flexes.Get a feel for what yer workin with.Push lightly on that dowel now,LIGHTLY.Mark the distance..Okay,now.Measure onto the APE tensioner shaft.from the inboard housing flange surface to the tip of the tensioner shaft ....install,tighten mount bolts.Fire engine up..turn immediately until the sound JUST GOES AWAY(you most likely won't hear anything...if this is the case..back er out till you DO hear some noise.Once it does that(IF it does that),you turn INWARD 1/2 turn or whatever it takes to quiet your now happy engine down.Once she stops yapping,...then a slight back out.Shut your engine off.Restart.Any noise...if so,go itn a tad more.Only a smidgen..THAT"S IT!!!

I'm gonna get shit for this...I know it.There's no hocus pocus...no mumbo jumbo.Straightforward and simple.Adjust as I described(or don't,I don't care...it's YOUR bike ).You will have no problem wondering"is it too tight?".As long as you preadjust,then adjust quickly when starting....she aint gonna jump no chain....timing will be fine....you will have a quiet cam chain...and will not need to adjust EVER(okay...maybe not "ever"...but with 40 something thousnad miles on my APE tensioner....I only checked it ONCE....and that was just for the heck of it.It didn't need to be adjusted.No doubt there will be over time a bit of mild,NORMAL shoe wear.You simply turn in a TEENSY TINY bit more if that begins to occur.Chances are good,the shoe will be fine.And you'll forget you even HAVE a cam chain in there.

There...now wasn't that EASIER than trying to do this? You guys are riding the Baddest bird on the planet....yer gonna hear somethin happening with yer cam chain WAY BEFORE there's any kind of "possible" damage.She's gonna sound like...well...your factory chain tensioner if she aint right!

Bravo! You all PASSED I'm happy to say!!

I got flak for this a while back...it's cool.I don't care.My engine's nice and quiet.Has been since I did my tensioner mod.Nothing wrong with the factory one...if that's what ya want.That TEENSY TINY spring DOES get weak over time.The APE tensioner bolt...well...mine is still...ahem....hard as steel

* Last updated by: blue07 on 12/30/2010 @ 4:22 PM *

Not lazy... just a part time employee. I'd bet your's was in between the adjustment notches when it got noisey on you, Romans. If you'd given it a bit longer to adjust itself, it probably would have clicked into the next notch and quieted down.

I thought of that, but I waited for 4 Months and lost patience. I figure that little springs is made of poor quality spring steel and when it gets hot it becomes lazy. Replace spring ? Or maybe a tad longer one or just remove cover and adjust factory one down one click, or,,,,, install APE. I got Lazy. APE was just to easy a fix and it won me over. I can turn a bolt while doing bike maintenance. No prob there. In the grand scheme of things it's no biggy and was easily fixed.

No more starting the bike under the cloak of darkness(Weeeee)before the boys get here. I hate when they call my bike Junk lol. In the nature of teasing I would do the same to them if they started their bikes and they rattled on start up. All in good fun U know. No matter, it's done and rattle is gone.

Blue, why the gun out. Dildo fear. Naaaaa, he wouldn't, LOL.

Okay...#2)How much slap do you think is in that cam chain?Gotta shoe shoe here,shoe shoe there.Shoe here shoe there...everywhere a shoe shoe.

Now that's funny. Good one blue. Where did you learn to speak like this ? hmmmmm

I too was curious about the 1/4 inch in the video above. Back off 1/4 Turn, Not 1/4 of a inch. Hub has the floor. Good Ear.

Dave, in the video: Explains to back her out a 1/4 of an inch? Yeah, if he pulled his dick out that far he fall the fuck out!

* Last updated by: Romans on 12/31/2010 @ 8:38 AM *

Now you guys with you r back and forth you have thinking I should just leave the auto tensioner on there until it gets really bad...........I can't remember how long the rattle lasted. 15 seconds, maybe? I don't think it has ever gotten worse over 3 years of ownership.

What if I put the APE on there and decide to go back to OEM and then the rattle is horrible from over-tightening the APE?

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/31/2010 @ 8:59 AM *