I rode my 14 last night for the first time since buying the new CBR 1000RR. I've been riding the CBR exclusively in order to get the break in completed as soon as possible and the 14 has remained on guard duty in the garage. It is strange how quickly we can adapt to a new machine, it quickly becomes "the norm" and our old scooter feels a bit alien to us. This is what happened yesterday and these were my impressions.

The 14 felt ponderous moving out of the garage, I'd never really noticed the weight before and the brakes once underway, felt almost touchy, instantaneous stopping power at your fingertips. The CBR has strong brakes but lacks the initial "bite" of the 14s front brake and you must get some heat in to them before they perform well. Once on the highway I couldn't get over how silky smooth and vibration free my 14 felt in comparison to the CBR. The CBR has an annoying midrange "buzz" that starts right about 6000 rpm, right where I like to fast highway cruise it in sixth gear (90mph). The 14 with it's double crankshaft balancers felt turbine smooth throughout it's rev range by comparison.

When entering the freeway via the on ramp, I couldn't believe how quickly I was at 90 mph on the 14, barely turning over in 5th. The slightest twist of the throttle and I was at 110, effortless. Unbelievable! The CBR will make speed also but not with such incredible ease and at any rpm and in any gear. You are always aware that you must spin it or downshift in order to accdelerate hard, not so with the 14, it's ready when you are.

I hit the interchange curve at about 110 and the 14 felt rock solid, stable, in a word trustworthy. By comparison, the CBR seems darty, almost too eager to turn in. I find myself over leaning on initial corner entry time and again, this is something I will become accustomed to I'm sure as my reflexes and muscle memory adapt. For now the 14 feels like an old friend in the turns. I notice the chicken strips on my 14's rear tire are right down to the edge on the 14, not so on the CBR, I still don't have the confidence to push it hard in the corners yet.

The suspension on the 14 felt soft and a bit floaty by comparison to the CBR, soaking up the expansion joints on the freeway but still retaining a sense of control. The CBR by comparison feels taut, nervous, you can feel the texture of the road being fedback into the bars and every little twitch of your hands sends it off in a different direction, it reacts instantly to command inputs so you better make the right ones. Quick and exciting!

Speaking of bars, I had the initial sensation on the 14 I was riding a standard with big wide handlebars with my feet far forward. Strange but very comfortable. Speaking of comfort, no comparison in wind protection. The CBR has a tiny race screen that is all but useless unless your belly is flat on the tank , the 14 at 80 mph feels like your floating on air, all day comfortable.

The riding position of the CBR is cramped, at least to my 6'3" frame. My legs are folded back on themselves and I can feel pressure in the balls of my feet and on my wrists. Braking hard into a corner I find myself squeezing my abdominal muscles HARD to keep weight off of my wrists. Strangely I never notice the seat. It looks like a thin little pad but it does a remarkable job of keeping your butt from going numb, good stuff. The 14 feels like I'm riding a Lazyboy recliner by comparison. All day comfort, the riding position is perfect for high speed travel.

As much as I enjoyed it, I finished my ride early on the 14 and found myself yearning to take the CBR out again...so I did! It's a bit uncomfortable, nervous, buzzy and you have to wring it's neck to get the performance but dammit it feels like a proper race bike and that is exciting! All in all I think I made the right choice buying this machine. I have a philosophy, never buy two bikes that are too close in character or you will end up loving one and hating the other. My VTX 1300 and my ZX-14 are perfect examples of this. I enjoy riding both and two bikes could not be more different in nature. They don't compete with each other, they complete each other. I think the CBR is going to be the same way. It can't compete with the 14 doing what it does best anymore than my VTX can but then neither of those bikes can do what the CBR does. I guess that's why a riding buddy of mine tells me you can never have to many bikes in your garage. Who ever said that three's a crowd?

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 3/19/2009 @ 9:14 AM *

Kruz:

It's posts like this that are the reason that I was so anxious for you to join us. (That and the last line in your sig )

Thanks for the GREAT information, and the time you took to write it. -bg

Great read. When I sold my 2006 R1 my friends told me I would miss it when I got my ZX14. They were right. I did miss my R1 but there was no way I would get rid of the ZX14 because of this. They are just two different kinds of bikes. It would be like comparing a Lotus Elise and a BMW M3. Both cars meant for speed, but one is way lighter and more nimble, while the other has the comfort side to it.

If and when I get another ZX14, there is no way I would replace it with a liter bike. If I were to get a liter bike, I would do what you did Kruz, I'd have both.

BTW, great to see you back Kruz.

* Last updated by: select20 on 3/19/2009 @ 9:25 AM *

Bg wrote:

Kruz:
It's posts like this that are the reason that I was so anxious for you to join us. (That and the last line in your sig ) Thanks for the GREAT information, and the time you took to write it. -bg

No problem Bg, glad to do it. I've never owned a literbike or 600 like a lot of the members here, (my last sportbike was an RD-350 waaaaay back in the dark ages) so this is a learning experience for me. It just proved to me you can never replace the 14, only compliment it!

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 3/19/2009 @ 12:55 PM *

Great post Kruz, I think your thoughts are spot on. I have to give you props for such a great stable of bikes.

Great write up. I feel the exact same way when riding my R1 compared to the Zx14.

Great write up ... and glad you got the Honda. It seems like you got the previous gen 2007 though... did you find a NEW one??

My 04 1000RR was the most stable liter bike I had been on, and for 06/07 Honda did add a bit more ooomph and kinda sacrificed a little of that stability to get itself back to the top of the list of track ready liter bikes.

Love to continue to hear your impression of the difference between the two, as you get more acquainted with the new baby in the garage.

* Last updated by: faz on 3/25/2009 @ 6:38 PM *

Hello FAZ, Yes I got a brand new '07 model, last one the dealer had. I'd done a lot of shopping looked at all the '08 models and kept coming back to this bike. The '08 CBR 1000 are just having too many problems for my taste, especially the oil burning issue. Anyway, I talked to a forum moderator at Fireblades.org and he has both an '07 and an '08 and he says he prefers the '07. Better build quality, better looking and he claims his '07 makes more power on the dyno. I think I made the right choice. They did sharpen the handling for '07, reduced weight and added more power and a higher redline. This bike scoots and turns corners like a cat, me likey!

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 3/26/2009 @ 9:00 AM *

nice writeup

I had time to put in a few more break-in miles on the new CBR this weekend and all I can say is "what a blast"! If you're on the fence about buying a new literbike, just do it, you wont regret it! This bike is addictive, certainly it's not as fast as my 14 in a straight line but who cares? When the road starts to curve, this machine really starts to make sense, it almost comes alive under you. I think Honda has done a fantastic job of marrying just the right amounts of power, agility and stability to make the CBR exciting to ride while still keeping confidence levels pegged. I've also found it is deceptively fast now that I've begun to explore the upper reaches of the tach and the subdued howl of the underseat exhaust is a pure aural pleasure when you really step on it's tail. Good stuff! The ever present midrange vibes are still there but you get used to it and I'm becoming acclimated to the aggressive riding position, so much so that it's beginning to feel almost normal. It's not perfect though, freeway riding I'd rather do on the 14 or even my cruiser. Droning along at 70 mph, surrounded by cagers you can sense the CBR is just not that happy, not enough wind protection and your wrists and knees start to groan from the racers crouch. Turn off the highway though and everything becomes pure bliss again, the tachometer racing towards the redline with a frantic urgency, the engine howling in protest as scenery flashes by in a blur. You flatten against the tank and arc gracefully into a series of sweeping turns rolling the throttle to the stop on corner exit, confident that smooth, seamless flow of power won't let you down. Ok, if you can't tell, I'm hooked!

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 3/30/2009 @ 12:58 PM *

With all the ifo available from unknown sources, it is very reassuring to hear reviews from someone you trust. Thanks Kruz.

You're certainly welcome Rook. I know you we're on the fence about committing to a liter bike awhile back. Howz that going?

Kruz

agree with rook, nice one kruz!

was out on sunday with the 'fast' boys and had to work really hard to keep up with an r1! so much so i pretty much destroyed my front tyre on the twisty roads we were on!! i was wishing we (me and 14 combined) were 80kilos lighter!!

mind you, even had i been on something similar, im not sure i would have been able to keep up, the r1 pilot was superb!

If you were even close on your 14 Jafo, I think you could have hung with him on a good literbike. That '09 Blade would have done the trick perhaps!

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 3/31/2009 @ 8:18 AM *

Kruz: "You're certainly welcome Rook. I know you we're on the fence about committing to a liter bike awhile back. Howz that going?"
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Well, I'm paying attention to what I hear online about literbikes. Seems like Honda got props for being faster than everyone last year but didn't win much approval, overall --- maybe because of the oil use and some lack in mechanical smoothness. (who cares, I say. If it's a race bike it just needs to race and that's all it has to do). I only hear that the 09 impresses the hell out of everyone, even Brock, and I know he must thoroughly test everything that that is available.

I start thinking "Keep the 14, buy a new literbike" when I read threads about people changing from a hyrebike. After I get to myself and ponder riding motorcycles, I always go back to dreaming about an 08 orange/black busa. I know it's going to be the same thing as the 14 but there are times when I have the bike out of comission for a few days and it would be very convenient to have a spare. It looks like there will be less wrenching time and more working time in my future too so if a bike is out, it will be out for even longer. I could mod them both differently to make them different bikes. Most importantly, an 08 busa will sell for a good price now but the days of $11,000 OTD are almost over. The hyperbikes aren't going to change for at least 6 years so buying right now gives a guy all that time to ride and not sweat the newer better models comming out. Not so on a literbike. If you buy new, you have to go into it knowing you are going to be up against a slightly better machine in a couple years. I can buy a new literbike in 3 years, 5 years - the update competition will always be there.

I really like the idea of owning the 14, the busa and a literbike. I've thought about the possibilety. It would mean sacrificing a lot of future everyday quality of life accomodations but motorcycling is certainly that. Hard to imagine modding 3 bikes. LOL Hard to imagine keeping fresh fluids in all of them as a matter of fact!

Rook

* Last updated by: Rook on 3/31/2009 @ 9:19 AM *

Rook, I almost bought the orange/black 2008 Busa, they're great bikes but at the end of the day you'd be duplicating your 14. The literbike is a whole new world, that 100 pounds weight difference is huge, it's like riding with a small women on the back of your bike! My 14 never felt heavy until I got off the CBR, now it feels like I'm pushing a tank out of the garage. My thoughts on literbike development, yes they are advancing rapidly on a two year product cycle but are they necessarily better? You can argue they put out more horsepower but it's mostly at ultra high rpm where it is not useable on the track or in the twisties. I keep hearing the '05 GSXR 1000 and '04 ZX-10R are still two of the best literbikes out there, they're light, tight and right. I think Honda is leading the way with mass centralization and weight loss, these bikes already have more hp than most humans could use. Look at the new R1 with crossplane crank technology, it's down on hp but waaay up on rideability comapred to last years offereing. I don't feel like I gave up much if anything buying an '07 over an '08. There are some differences, the '08 is 11 pounds lighter, a little more torque etc. but those are almost insignificant differences and it still will come down to the rider. In fact, right now I have no plans to modify this machine other than a fender eliminator. The bike is much, much better than I am as is. Like Keith Code of California Superbikes pointed out, a rider will spend thousands to gain a few horsepower and maybe knock a tenth of a second off his lap times when for a few hundred bucks he coulda taken a riders course and shaved seconds off his lap times.

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 3/31/2009 @ 9:51 AM *

I'm going to end up with 3 bikes. What the hell, you're only middle aged once.

Rook

I keep hearing the '05 GSXR 1000 and '04 ZX-10R are still two of the best literbikes out there, they're light, tight and right. .... I don't feel like I gave up much if anything buying an '07 over an '08.

Whenever I hear that about 04/05 Kawi ZX10's... I start doubting the knowledge of the person who is saying it. I mean, from a hp/weight ratio and great engine point of view, those model years were awesome... but feedback from everyone that has owned one (including some fast racers), the damn thing was almost impossible to ride fast due to chassis/control issues. 'Wild' is definitely not an attribute that I personally like to use to describe my liter bike... especially the one that I am buying to ride at the edge of performance. Even Kawi had a hard time selling those bikes off... left over ones were sitting in local dealerships selling for $6999 +fees and still no takers. Used markets were flooded by almost new ones with less than 4-5k miles on them.

On your 07 vs. 08 1000RR, I personally agree with you... given a choice (and some savings to go with it), I would definitely pick an 07 over an 08 myself. Honda's approach and emphasis on being 'well balanced', instead of trying to be the best in one or the other category, is best seen in 04/05 and 06/07 model years... each generation in its own way.

* Last updated by: faz on 3/31/2009 @ 2:25 PM *

The ZX-10 mopped up in Masterbike three years running, probably the premier test for a track oriented motorcycle. Now how did that success translate into bike sales, I don't know, probalby not good if what you say is true. Yes, they were supposed to be a little wild and wooley but apparently a lot of folks like em like that, I know when I bought my 14, I wanted it to scare me silly! You're right, Honda got away from their balanced approach in '08 and stunned the motorcycle world with an amazing track ready CBR but last time I checked there's a pile of those '08s still waiting for someone to take them home. I think the '08 CBR is a better racing bike but the '07 is a better all around motorcycle. Honda must be doing something right since they have been running second only to the GSXR 1000 in total liter bike sales with Yamaha and Kawasaki trailing in the distance.

Kruz

Geez Kruz, Honda is gonna have to cut you a check for all the promotion!
Gotta say, you're makin' me wanna ride my 10 really bad!!!
Supposed to get a break in the weather Friday....
gotta wait a few months to see the 80 degree days you've been gettin' though!

Faz, "wild" was exactly what I was looking for when I bought a litre.

Rook I'm right with on the liter bike thing its killing me the prices are so good right now. I can get a 08 zx10 of any color for 9100 OTD in two places WI right now. I doubt I'll be that much faster in the twisties on the street than I am on my zx14. I however need something different from time to time and besides a zx10 will help me get the boy racer thing out of my 40 year old body.

Dogo wrote:

Faz, "wild" was exactly what I was looking for when I bought a litre.

There you go Faz, this is the man to ask about the '04 ZX-10 since he has one. I don't think that bike is for beginners though..novice riders apply elsewhere. The fact of the matter is there is no one best bike for everyone. Honda in '04/'05 decided to play it safe, gave the CBR very neutral if unexciting handling, smooth but not overwhelming power and comfortable ergos. I think they lost every track biased shootout those two years but carried off all the first place kudos for best street bike. They sold a ton of them, mostly to first time liter bike buyers. Very few showed up on the starting grid at a racetrack though. The GSXR 1000 seemed to rule the roost there with the R1 and ZX-10 nipping at it's heels. In '06 Honda decided to get serious and put the CBR 1000 on a serious nip and tuck program. They dropped weight 17 lbs from the '04/'05 model, bumped compression ratio, raised the redline, shortened the wheelbase, tightened up the rake and trail, lightened the cranks for more response, revised the fuel injection etc. There were over 200 detail changes in all. The bike went from back of the pack to number two right behind the GSXR 1000 and returned unchanged in'07 to do it again. This time though, all the other players had changed and gained a lot of weight. The '07 CBR was now almost 26 pounds lighter than the '07 GSXR. The '06/'07 CBRs did not sell as well as the '04/'05s. The bike had lost some of it's friendliness in the translation to a more competent racing platform. The guys at Road Racing World loved it and set their fastest lap times on it but it intimidated the newbies a bit. Coming off my 14 it feels quick without being scary but I think there is a slight nervous edge to it, almost like a caffeine buzz.

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 4/1/2009 @ 7:37 AM *

Willidx4 writes:

I doubt I'll be that much faster in the twisties on the street than I am on my zx14.

On a road with nothing but high speed sweepers you are right, you won't be any faster. Hit some serious stuff with lots of right-left transitions though and your speed will go way up. The 14 does a good job of masking it's weight, you don't realize how much it weighs until you ride something a lot smaller.

Good writeup on the 2007 Literbikes and one reason I bought the '07 CBR.

http://www.motorcycle.com/shoot-outs/2007-liter-bike-shootout-34342.html

Kruz

* Last updated by: Kruz on 4/1/2009 @ 10:20 AM *

Well, sweep my leg over a crossplane I did not. Right away, I noticed the bars where for race ache and not for me is it would kill me old bones is pick a part.

Once I saw that, I lost interest. I also lost interest being, you will not see 87 or 85 foot pounds of torque is the brochure's mark. Factory mark and your dyno production mark are two different numbers.

I doubt you are going to gain HP using any 360° fire, because one will find a bit here, then the other inline will take over with a found bit there is all that is war against cylinder degree positions in a 360° loop.

She now is becoming a tiny jewel of a ride. I haven't cut the video being super short is to show the case evolution happening.

I do like the, "Note: Her Dame" bell ringing pull rope is that shift linkage hunchbacked to what was open case from the cylinder base gasket say; we have an engine that more or less looks like an, > "L" < with the cylinder vertical and the transmission in a horizontal position.

Now, the case looks more compact where the trans now folds up like a; "U" da think how your foot has to shift that rod is about a building tall to the shifter shaft pawl or said internal [shift] linkage part(s). So, between the loss of the L-case and the new and improved incredible shrinking bike is the way I always wanted the bike to go is quick as a whipping stick and so petite inn size, as the bitch is slapping me to, MOVE! MOVE! Faster! Ya fat fu.........

I so wanted to buy a track bike this year, and I had my heart set on a shiny new 07 ZX10R Special Edition…

The bike has been sitting on my local dealer’s showroom floor for the last 2 years. I am a big fan of the 07 due to the fact it has the under tail exhaust, I realise there are a number of big drawbacks (heat and weight being to of the biggest) but I just love the look.

There are however two problems:

Problem #1 My wife is adamant that three bikes in that garage is already at least one two many and thinks that if I spend any money on another bike it should be a dirt bike for my youngest.

Problem #2 The dealership does not want to come down on the price, they currently have it listed for $750 less than a new 09 (insane in my opinion)… and they turned down my what I believed was reasonable offer out of hand. It’s almost like they don’t want to sell it!

So a question to the brain trust… for those of you with multiple bikes how did you convince the other half that having a garage full of bikes was a required expense… or are you all single (possibly recently so i.e. swapped the bike for the wife). Note: One of the bikes in the garage is a new 08 650R bought new last year for my wife… So I already tried that.