Every clutch problem I have ever had has involved slipping but this is different. My tranny shifts really rough. Basically the neutral to 1st hard shift, its like that in 2nd and third. Occasionally other gears and its not all the time but it does it a lot. I was noticing my clutch pull has gotten weaker and after riding it will loose some of its feel. Now it releases at the end of the pull but it has started releasing right off the bar sometimes. It doenst slip or show any usual clutch problems but this is my first hydraulic. The dealer said it was normal and these bikes have a rough transmission anyway but it doesnt feel right to me. I can see the plates moving maybe a 1/4" when removing the oil cap. It doesnt change with the lever on the closest or furtherest setting. Could it be the clutch or the fluid? Its a 07 with 10k miles. I am going to bleed it in the next few days to see if that helps.

Ahem...it's ME again!Pesky prick that I am!The clutch lever adjuster DOES NOT AFFECT THE CLUTCH RESPONSE.The hydraulic clutch in the 14 is NON ADJUSTABLE.She works,and works well,or she don't.Lever "position" via the chrome adjuster will not change anything...except how far you have to reach to use the lever.Okay...I'm done...let the arrows fly!!!(OOPS,sorry,I couldn't resist )Trying to correct a "not-working properly" clutch by adjusting the lever is useless.And for Rebus...the transmissions in these big boys are a tad on the notchy side...yes.But if you mean...she's slamming into every gear....that's not okay.Neutral to 1st....quite pronounced.After that shift,they should all be going in fairly smooth...but not perfectly smooth(I've compared mine to the Hayabusa...now that bike shifts SMOOTH).If your getting missed shifts....you may want to reconsider how you're shifting.There's several ways to shift these bikes.Different speeds,different loads.Clutch or no clutch.Fast toe shift,slow toe shift.Timing of clutch with toe shift.Lots of variables.HOW are YOU shifting?Lots of symptoms can seem like certain problems on the surface.Without going "mechanical"...here....usually the shifting quality has to do with operator performance...not the mechanism.She's not gonna shift like a cadillac,okay.But rpm range at shift and load have a lot to do with just how much notchyness occurs.The lever will activate at the first 1" or so of pull...meaning....grabbing and releasing.No need to pull the lever in to the bar.Sit at a light.Put er in 1st.Let the clutch out slowly and slightly until she begins to grab.Notice WHERE she starts to grab and compare that with the REST of the lever move outward.There won't be any grabbing until she's "out there" a ways....not pulled in next to the grip.If that's occurring(grabbing straight from the grip)...there's a problem.As your miles build up,the clutch/trans parts will mellow out some.Oil has a serious and pronounced feel on the clutch/transmission action.Bad oil....poor clutch performance.Used,unchanged oil....bad performance.New,fresh 10/40....full synthetic,GOOD clutch feel.Overused clutch fluid.....bad clutch feel.New fresh fluid....bled correctly lines...GOOD clutch feel.Is it one of these,or maybe a combo of all?It sounds like air in there....how it's changing it's grabbing position.That should not be changing.When you punch er in the lower gears...or any...does she slip at all?I think you said "no"?How about after she's good and warm?Any change with clutch feel?Is there a difference from how she works/feels at a cold beginning,then later....15-20 minutes on?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 6/12/2010 @ 4:29 PM *

I checked the pressure plate like you said hub. As soon as I start to feel pressure the plate starts moving. With the lever adjusted all the way out it looks like the plate clears the basket forks 3/4s of the way. With it adjusted to wher eI use it at setting 3 the plate looked to go about halfway out on the forks. Pretty close either way but it is not clearing the forks all the way.

It's not gonna move much.Your lever setting is not going to affect where she grabs or releases....only where YOU grab.Closer in to you,ya...it's gonna appear like it's now different.It's not.IMO the guys here that "drag" their bikes would be the best to chime in on this...but they are probably busy winning races!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 6/12/2010 @ 4:38 PM *

Is it banging into gear on any of the shifts except N to 1st(which they all do)?Does your Neutral lamp come on when sitting and shifting from 1st to Neutral?When downshifting from 2nd to first(to stop at a light or something),does the Neutral light momentarily come on as she passes the 2nd to 1st gear spot?You mention..."as I ride it it will loose some of it's feel"...okay,next time it "loses some of it's feel"....shift to like 2nd....punch it hard.See if she slips.In another gear,4th or 5th....cruise...when she does the "lost feel" thing.....punch it hard.See what she does.You can work your clutch as yer going along.Cruise,pull in the clutch.Release the clutch and punch it hard.Anything strange happening?Slipping?It sounds to me like just the good ole fashion air in the line deal going on.Cold....the fluid is "compressed" more as is the air also(if it's in there).Warming up....the fluid is more slippery and the air is thinner,giving it a chance to compress MORE with the lever pull(which is gonna cause yer clutch to NOT grab as well)(OR...not allow a smoother foot shift,but enough to allow it to shift)...which you say "changes" from "outboard" actuation to "inboard"(at the grip) actuation.I'd say....get yer bleed hose.Get yer bike warmed up good.Put that bleed hose on the master cylinder nipple.Pull in yer clutch.Open that nipple.Close er up.release the clutch.ANY TINY BUBBLES COMING OUT OF THE MASTER?Any at all is TOO MANY.Same with the rest of the line.ANY bubbles and she won't work right.

I can see the neutral light flash for an instance. Never missed a shift, it always locks into gear. I bangs into 2nd and sometimes 3rd but down shifting is usually smooth especially if I wait till 10 mph and hen down shift through the gears. I will try to bleed it today.

I will try that too. I replaced the sprocket cover and the slave is not leaking and I also bled it. I didnt notice any bubbles but the fluid needed to be changed anyway. It was very dark compared to the new fluid. The plate is sitting just outside the fingers like it said it should be in the video and it moves about the same when pulling the lever in.

I noticed some people say the shift lever position makes adiffernence on shifting. Is the dot on the shaft supposed to be in the middle of the gap of the lever? If so I had to move it 2 notches down to put it that way. I installed some buell pegs and noticed but I am not sure what the stock position is supposed to be. I havent drove it yet but am riding it to work in the morning.

* Last updated by: rebus20 on 6/13/2010 @ 2:50 PM *

I tried a lever readjustment myself when I installed my buells.Anything but HORIZONTAL to the ground DID NOT SHIFT WELL.Tip lowered....no go.Had to virtually get the top of my foot completely under the lever to get er to move...No way was I gonna try ridin with it bein like that.Taking it on the higher position from horizontal....there was just too much foot lift to be comfortable,and she shifted BAD.Went back to factory setting...horizontal(at least mine was)worked perfect actually.I didn't think it would,but it does.I don't know about any dot on the shaft...I didn't notice one on mine....maybe there is one.And "we" didn't establish "no bleeding is necessary".You removed the slave...remove OR loosen any lines?Also,you know that black plastic spacer goes in a certain way,yes?

* Last updated by: blue07 on 6/13/2010 @ 3:04 PM *

I did not know it went in a certain way but I never removed it completely from the slave. Its all back together and is operating fine. I didnt loosen any lines either.
There is a dot on the shift shaft. I assume its for lining up the lever. It feels like it is a tad low but I dont know where it goes stock and I dont know if the guy who owned it before me moved it.

Yes...I tried repositioning my shift lever cause I figured with the now lowered pegs,I could get an easier shift ability.Changing the angle of the lever DID NOT WORK....it made things worse.I'm with ya on that Hub....sometimes mods aren't in the best performance package of the designers."horizontal"....that's how mine was from the factory.And it shifts great in that "stock" position.I just needed to get used to the difference of the way it felt.That was all.The peg mod is an awesome mod.I can't however go along with "clutch wear changing the lever position"....the manual clearly states..."NON-ADJUSTABLE CLUTCH"....regardless of wear...and it would have to be pretty severe wear to make the grip lever move from "at the grip" operation to "almost all the way released"position of the lever.I think Rebus's problem is air in the line.He's got 10,000 miles on er....hardly enough to cause plate wear if run normally.Now if she had been dragged,or the owner slipped the clutch continuously...ya...maybe.But not on a factory clutch pack with normal rider treatment.That's why I mentioned "the drag guys" would be the ones to ask.I'm sure they've experienced excessive wear from time to time.I say again...even with the hand lever all the way in(as mine is set)...the shift engage/disengage area is identical to when I've set er all the way out from the grip.There is a certain amount of engage/disengage action that is the only area that will work properly.It doesn't happen "all the way in" or "all the way out".That's why when you shift you don't need to pull the lever all the way in.It's only working at the first 1" or so.And that area is on the outbound side of pulling the lever....not up against the grip.So the setting of the lever can be adjusted anywhere in between,cause there's plenty of free play so to speak from grip outward,and pulling in to disengage/engage.And I also noticed right away in yer video Hub...don't know which one,but it showed you shifting(at the lever)You WERE NOT PULLING THE LEVER IN VERY MUCH...certainly not to the grip while you changed gears.About an inch,if that,was all you were doing.So you know what I'm talking about.If Rebus is having to pull the lever all the way to the grip to allow the trans to shift...there's air in there or something along that line.It's not the clutch basket/plates or steels in my opinion.The whole assembly only moves around a 1/4 of an inch if that,and he's saying "that's what it's doing" when he looked down in there at the oil fill.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 6/14/2010 @ 1:55 AM *

I know how the hydraulic system works.That's why they used it on our bikes....so you wouldn't be messing with a stretched cable(fluid will be much more effective at creating pushing force...as you know).Air will effectively act as a stretched cable if it is in there.How could it get in there?Well,previous owner maybe.New owner takes over.Rides his bike,notices something weird going on with his lever."she's only got 10,000 miles on er"...that's what he said...the dealer said"they all shift like this"...so apparently THIS ISSUE is NEW to Rebus.NOT riding 10,000 miles with it going on.What does THAT mean.That means that the NEW owner(rebus) DID NOT PUT THE 10,000 miles on er.C'mon Hub....It's pretty clear he took possession of a bike that had someone do something with the clutch...bleeding or something that could get air in the line.That's WAY more likely than "warped plates" at 10,000 miles of normal riding(which hasn't been established yet either...we don't know HOW the previous owner rode the bike).Besides....REBUS....how exactly does your lever feel?Snappy,or weak.That's a pretty good way to determine what's really happening.Does she snap back when you release the lever,or just kinda go forward if YOU push it forward.So Hub,you would have Rebus pull his clutch out and examine the plates,just on a hunch?Or try the easier way of line bleeding first.I wouldn't exactly say "I'm chasing the problem"...more like..."sounds just like mine did...here's what I did to correct MY situation".Lot easier than tearing the clutch out with all the attendant "possible" mistakes that could happen.

* Last updated by: blue07 on 6/14/2010 @ 4:55 AM *

I bought it with 8k miles on it so I have put just over 2k miles but this is my 14th bike and about 16 years of street bike experience not including dirt bikes. This may be normal for this bike but I havent experienced it before but this is my first 14 and I know each bike has its quirks. When the dealer rode it he said the 14 shifts nothing like the 6 or 10 and he didnt know why, its just the way its made.
It up shifted better this morning but down shifted worse. The leaver is to low. I had to push the kickstand lever down to get my foot under the shifter so I will raise it up one notch for the ride home in the morning. Changing the oil could help too but I am running mobil1 4t and it has 2k miles on it. I have a 1500 mile trip coming up next month so I am planning on changing it before I leave. Blue, too bad you are in north ga. We could get together and ride but I think you are 3 or so hours away. I am around albany/valdosta.

I offered an alternative view....the previous owner worked on the clutch...maybe changed fluid.Maybe not...we really don't know.His clutch pack sounds like it's doing fine.He's getting his movement in there.So the clutch is engaging and disengaging.We know that.What we don't know is HOW far she's moving.We see it,but IS it enough to allow a smooth shift.If there was air...this WOULD be a problem.You know that.And no,I do not get air out of my lines when she's full and bled.EVER.There's a clue there...IF he's getting repeated bubbles,however small,there's a problem.It cannot suck air into the closed system without having a seal issue(banjo).It's either all the way out...and stays that way regardless of how much she's hammered.Or not.It's not slipping.Okay...so it's engaging and disengaging okay.He said it shifted terrible with his toe shifter set the way it was.Okay...we reset and eliminate that deal.I say his clutch is the cat's meow.I stick with the air issue.People will disagree with me on this...but it's happened to me....when removing that sprocket cover,the slave needs to be watched especially if the work is taking a while to complete.The piston WILL push out past the seal lip,and you WILL loose fluid.I promise!Now could that allow air to pull in behind?I think it could....but I'm not sure of course.The key deal is really at this point...which rebus didn't state,is exactly HOW his lever feels(at the bar).Snappy,springs back when pulled in? .Or dead,like there's nothing there behind it.THAT would say a lot right there.

We all know that these hydraulic clutches are the most reliable,smoothest working deals in the industry(and one of the most common complaints in the 14 forums)....but they can be a real hairpuller if they're not just right.I've got a mitey vac(thanks to coolwhip)that works really well at pulling all the air out on a fluid change.But even that can be a headache if I don't get it quite right.

Thanks again BG...it's working fine!!!!!!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 6/14/2010 @ 2:08 PM *

Wow! Actual paragraphs!!!! Too cool! On your 2,000th post, too... -bg

WoHoooo....BG....you've created a Monster!!!

I looks like it was the shifter position. I adjusted it down 1 notch from where it was(apparently adjusted by the previous owner) and drove it 35 miles home from work this morning and it shifted 100% better. Who knew 1 notch would make such a difference. It sucks I rode 2k miles with bad shifting for something that took 60 seconds to fix.

Alright!!!!!Good one!...That shifter is a finicky deal alright.Yep....tried mine a couple different ways as well....couldn't even get er to move at one setting,and it wasn't lowered by much...like you said...one notch!