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Thread: oil switch thread pitch? mystery

Created on: 04/28/17 10:17 PM

Replies: 30

Rook


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Posts: 16189

oil switch thread pitch? mystery
04/28/17 10:17 PM

I've tried 1/8 NPT.. Too big.

Tried 1/8 BSPT ..still too big.

Looks like the threads go all the way to the tippy top and they taper down exponentially rather than at a constant 55 or 60° like npt or bspt.

The adapter wont go in the oil pan hole. What the hell am i going to do now?



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

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cruderudy


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
04/28/17 11:50 PM

May be that KHI designed something specific for this oil fitting not using British pipe threads. You need to determine the exact threads on the original part, it maybe metric fine threads.



rs
Perfectly Set up '06 dead and gone
New BBW '14 14R

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VicThing


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
04/29/17 5:48 AM

You might need the 28 pitch BSPT instead of 27 pitch.

LOL I don't know anything about this shit... maybe this will help http://www.practicalmachinist.com/vb/general/ot-japanese-pipe-threads-158654/

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Rook


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
04/29/17 9:12 AM

May be that KHI designed something specific for this oil fitting not using British pipe threads.

I'm thinking this is the case. The domed shape on the tip of that sensor thread is not typical at all. The threads are not just tapered, they are almost sorta domed.

You might need the 28 pitch BSPT instead of 27 pitch.

BPST is 28 TPI and that's what the adapter is. The TPI does not seem to be the issue, it's that the first threads are not small enough. A 1/8 BSPT that was tapered down farther to a smaller point will go right in but where can I find that? I'm sure an NPT that was tapered down smaller than usual would work fine too. Kaw made that f$$in hole too small! I bet they did this to me on purpose.

That's another great link Vic. I've read a dozen like that. Notice no one ever comes back and says 'I bought this or that adapter and it worked---here's what it's called!'


* Last updated by: Rook on 4/29/2017 @ 9:13 AM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

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Grn14


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
04/29/17 10:13 AM

time for the dremel...

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piken


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
04/29/17 10:45 AM

Thread info

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Rook


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
04/29/17 11:04 AM

Thanks for the thread id info. piken. I am pretty certain this is 1/8 npt or more likely 1/8 BSPT. The threads match up to 1/8 BSPT perfectly except the first few are a tiny bit smaller in OD.

I might need to resort to the dremmel but I think this would be a tedious process of hand grinding with a riffler and measuring with a calipers.

rudy is working on this one for me. Here are some pics that will hopefully show the problem. The beginning threads on the oil switch wind in really tight (small). Normal pipe thread, NPT or BSPT both have a constant angle and it doesn't seem to taper down small enough to even start in the hole.

here is how they all fit. All sensors fit any 1/8 NPT female. The OEM sensor and that little oil temp sensor goes right in the boss but not a normal sized 1/8 NPT or 1/8 BSPT.

What would seem to be the easiest solution would be if I could find a male to female nipple: male--whatever that oil temp sensor thread is, female 1/8" BSPT. Thread nipple into boss, thread oil cube adapter into nipple. done. but where would one find such a nipple or make the threads on the oil cube adapter smaller????? A die would not work unless it was a specialized die.

Just for posterity, here is the link to the panic post I made on my GlowShift thread. Thanks for help, rudy.


* Last updated by: Rook on 4/29/2017 @ 11:28 AM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

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cruderudy


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/04/17 6:34 PM

Well?

I thought your idea of cutting off the original sensor threads and welding then to the new sensor was probably the best option.



rs
Perfectly Set up '06 dead and gone
New BBW '14 14R

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Rook


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/04/17 7:35 PM

Just finished mulling it over. I am getting the adjustable die, a die handle and a fine riffler. If I mess it up, I probably will try to weld or just have one made in a machine shop.

As far as welding goes, The K Series parts tech guy, Russel told me the oil cube is either 303 or 304 stainless steel and it probably is 303 because that would be easier for the manufacturer to machine. 303 is not considered weldable. He said I might be able to do it but it might not be as good as I like...so I'm not sure exactly what that means...it will be sloppy or it will be a weak weld. ???



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

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cruderudy


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/04/17 7:49 PM

If you go the path of welding the shop has to know what flavor of SS it is and if its 303, which it maybe, you need an expert TIG welder to do it. If an experienced welder does the work and he know the cautions with this material the weld should be good for your application and as strong as any good weld.



rs
Perfectly Set up '06 dead and gone
New BBW '14 14R

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Rook


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/04/17 7:58 PM

Thank you, rudy. I will make note of it just in case I need to go that rout.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

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mad5674


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Location: Monrovia, IN

Joined: 05/27/11

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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/04/17 8:06 PM

Mightn't the heat damage the sensor?



Mark D.
'15 ZX-14R....here we go again!....center stand; M4 slip-ons; helibars; PCS1 racing filter; MRA touring screen; ZG double bubble screen; Sargent low profile seat; Throttlemeister cc; ProjektD rad guard; Puig hugger; ZG Marc1 ws; fender eliminator, Knight Design 1 3/8 lowered pegs...
'08 1600 Vulcan

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Rook


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Posts: 16189

RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/04/17 8:12 PM

The plan is to chop the back off a used sensor and weld it to the back of my 5 outlet adapter. I would just be transplanting the threads from a sensor to the adapter so it would fit into the oil pan hole. Then put the OEM sensor in the adapter (it fits the female hole in the adapter) and the sensors for my oil gauges in the other outlets. The problem is that the oil pan hole is pretty small and the sensor is the only thing that seems to fit in it. Adapter male threads are too big in diameter.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

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mad5674


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/04/17 8:54 PM

Ahh, I see. Hmm... I'm a machinist, have been following this dilemma, and not sure why the difference in threads. Puzzling. Looks as though that male adapter was machined well below basic on the thrd. gage.


* Last updated by: mad5674 on 5/4/2017 @ 9:00 PM *



Mark D.
'15 ZX-14R....here we go again!....center stand; M4 slip-ons; helibars; PCS1 racing filter; MRA touring screen; ZG double bubble screen; Sargent low profile seat; Throttlemeister cc; ProjektD rad guard; Puig hugger; ZG Marc1 ws; fender eliminator, Knight Design 1 3/8 lowered pegs...
'08 1600 Vulcan

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mad5674


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/04/17 9:15 PM



Mark D.
'15 ZX-14R....here we go again!....center stand; M4 slip-ons; helibars; PCS1 racing filter; MRA touring screen; ZG double bubble screen; Sargent low profile seat; Throttlemeister cc; ProjektD rad guard; Puig hugger; ZG Marc1 ws; fender eliminator, Knight Design 1 3/8 lowered pegs...
'08 1600 Vulcan

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mad5674


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Location: Monrovia, IN

Joined: 05/27/11

Posts: 315

RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/04/17 9:24 PM

Maybe try to find another male adapter that has a longer thread...it would probably taper down to a smaller diameter.



Mark D.
'15 ZX-14R....here we go again!....center stand; M4 slip-ons; helibars; PCS1 racing filter; MRA touring screen; ZG double bubble screen; Sargent low profile seat; Throttlemeister cc; ProjektD rad guard; Puig hugger; ZG Marc1 ws; fender eliminator, Knight Design 1 3/8 lowered pegs...
'08 1600 Vulcan

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Rook


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/05/17 4:02 PM

Mightn't the heat damage the sensor?

I'm hoping NOT. I seem to recall a guy got this setup to work but also recall that he kept burning out sensors---maybe--I really hope I am wrong about that.

Yeah, the aftermarkets pressure sensor has a plastic cover. I presume it is steel where it counts and hopefully heat resistant. It would not make any sense to produce an oil pressure gauge kit that did not have a heat resistant sensor unless they include a remote line or at least recommend the use of one. If the sensor burns out ( i have read a few posts where that was mentioned), I will have to attach a braided line and locate a new sensor ???? somewhere else...less hot.

In any case, I will need some port to supply the gauge sensor be it remotely located or not. The oil cube adapter would still be necessary if I use a line to supply the sensor.

Maybe try to find another male adapter that has a longer thread...it would probably taper down to a smaller diameter.

Yeah, mad but I have looked at every adapter online but I haven't come across anything that definitely looks like or is called an extra long, smaller OD fitting. ...and this is BSPT we are shopping for which makes it even more limited. I have a 1/8 NPT close fitting that has an extra thread or two and it seems like it almost wants to start.

...and another problem with adding fittings to parts that already have fittings---that is extra leverage extension and we have a good deal of weight in sensors at the end.

Your drawing shows the problem perfectly but the explanation of the problem is opposite. I think it would be more accurate to say 'the OEM sensor threads and the hole in the oil pan were threaded well below basic'. The aftermarket part is much closer to every 1/8" fitting I have looked at. Seems the first two or three threads on the OEM sensor drastically and exponentially reduce in diameter compared to other fittings I have. Here is a drawing I made that shows the problem. The first thread on the OEM sensor is almost a half mm smaller than normal.


* Last updated by: Rook on 5/5/2017 @ 4:04 PM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

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mad5674


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Location: Monrovia, IN

Joined: 05/27/11

Posts: 315

RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/05/17 4:15 PM

Nice drawings Rook...it's a real stumper?!?

I'd much rather thread Suzuki Girl there!!



Mark D.
'15 ZX-14R....here we go again!....center stand; M4 slip-ons; helibars; PCS1 racing filter; MRA touring screen; ZG double bubble screen; Sargent low profile seat; Throttlemeister cc; ProjektD rad guard; Puig hugger; ZG Marc1 ws; fender eliminator, Knight Design 1 3/8 lowered pegs...
'08 1600 Vulcan

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Rook


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/05/17 4:35 PM

he-he-- A little extra tight would not be a problem I would mind fixing either. That was an old pic that ended up being near the drawing so I just had to have a look. Unfortunately, I can't find the whole photoshoot. She was amazingly hot peeling off those oversized leathers.



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

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Rook


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/06/17 10:40 AM

Here's what we are working with.

and here's a pic of the hole. Looks like it is a uniform taper. There is no rapid reduction in thread diameter like the oil pressure switch threads have. A fitting with uniformly tapered threads should fit sp all I have to do is run a die over the adapter threads to make them smaller.

here you see the threads for the test port running perpendicular at the back of the hole. Also, oil never seems to stop draining down and pooling in the thread hole. I'll need to solve that problem before I use sealant to install anything back in this hole.


* Last updated by: Rook on 5/6/2017 @ 11:30 AM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

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mad5674


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Location: Monrovia, IN

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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/06/17 11:51 AM

I would definitely give the die a try.



Mark D.
'15 ZX-14R....here we go again!....center stand; M4 slip-ons; helibars; PCS1 racing filter; MRA touring screen; ZG double bubble screen; Sargent low profile seat; Throttlemeister cc; ProjektD rad guard; Puig hugger; ZG Marc1 ws; fender eliminator, Knight Design 1 3/8 lowered pegs...
'08 1600 Vulcan

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Rook


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RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/06/17 12:55 PM

Tapping the hole would also work but A) we are not 100% certain what thread that is B) the OEM parts are altered C) I would need to remove the oil pan to make sure no metal chips were left behind and D) if I sxrew up, a new oil pan costs over $500.


* Last updated by: Rook on 5/6/2017 @ 1:33 PM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

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Rook


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Posts: 16189

RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/10/17 6:43 PM

Just got my 1/8 BSTP adjustable die and handle from McMaster Carr. $53 + whatever they charged me for shipping.

EDIT 06/08/17 WAIT!!! It's not 1/8" BSPT!! Read on.


* Last updated by: Rook on 6/8/2017 @ 6:03 PM *



'08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE flies out, full Tsukigi Cannon exhaust, BMC race filter, Muzzy's block off plates, 17/45 gearing, PC5, Romans map, AT-200, Bonneville PRO, HM PLUS quickshifter, Factory Pro EVO Shift Star, RC's oil pump cover, Shorai 14A2 Lithium battery, Spiegler SS clutch and brake lines, HyperPro RSC steering damper, Vortex rearsets, Ohlins FGRT807 forks and KA544 shock, Carrazzeria Tri-R wheels, Pazzo levers.

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mad5674


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Location: Monrovia, IN

Joined: 05/27/11

Posts: 315

RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/10/17 6:56 PM

Hope it solves your problem Rook. Need to make that busa jealous again ;)



Mark D.
'15 ZX-14R....here we go again!....center stand; M4 slip-ons; helibars; PCS1 racing filter; MRA touring screen; ZG double bubble screen; Sargent low profile seat; Throttlemeister cc; ProjektD rad guard; Puig hugger; ZG Marc1 ws; fender eliminator, Knight Design 1 3/8 lowered pegs...
'08 1600 Vulcan

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cruderudy


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Posts: 868

RE: oil switch thread pitch? mystery
05/10/17 8:18 PM

cuttn chips ...



rs
Perfectly Set up '06 dead and gone
New BBW '14 14R

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