I finally picked up a Speigler bar riser kit and what a difference! The bike feels so much more comfortable and even handles better! I thought I would post some pics.

* Last updated by: Monte70 on 3/20/2012 @ 5:31 AM *

Yes, clipons are for race tracks and drag strips.

Out on the street, the additional leverage and beneficial change in geometry (making rider sit more upright changes effective geometry) of higher and more pulled back grips combine to make the bike handle better for practical riding.

Up to a point of course. Too high and too back and you get new issues. Vis. ape hangers.

When I did MSF Experienced From Hell class in 2008 with my new ZX14 (glad that instructor retired) it was hell doing figure eights with clipons. After I put the LSL and Superbike High bar on, I could do figure eights all day long well within the MSF and Ride Like A Pro circle diameters.

I'm curious about the improved handling.

Would you say it handles better because your weight is distributed differently or being raised up automatically takes away all tension you might be putting on the bars? Or neither? I only ask because no matter how many years I practice, I still tend to stiffen up at the clip-on's when I ride hard, leaning forward on a bike it tends to just happen. If you are more upright, it's easier to stay relaxed. Anyone else have that issue?

Auron, all of what you mention contributes.

Clip-ons work best (as far as handling, not talking about 1/4 mile) when extreme lean angles are employed, and when the rider stays low to the tank.

Street riding is just the opposite.

Plus, if you watch Ride Like a Pro you see why higher/wider/closer grips matter in slow speed handling.

The ZX14 and ZX14R as delivered are incapable of doing a MSF Experienced course figure 8 in the alloted circle width except by a small handful of riders. Its one thing to use 30 feet, quite another to use 18 or 20 feet.

I'm not saying you can't find riders who can herd a supersport bike with clip-ons around a autocross or Ride Like a Pro course. I am just saying for every one of those you find, I can find a thousand who can do it with less effort using wider/higher/closer handgrips.

Nobody will argue with this if they really understand slow and moderate speed street riding.

I had a set on my 07...for a while.VERY nice for cruising...yes.Leverage was good.Sitting more upright was okay.I took em off however cause I just wanted to have the 'feel' of my sportbike(NINJA)back.You have those on there a while,and you'll notice an immediate more sporty handling bike once you return to stock clip-ons.I had a 4" rise,and a 7" pullback.Pretty dramatic for a sportbike.They were okay though...for a while.For a change.

I found going back to the stock bars gave me a bit more enjoyment when carving and all though.Body position with clip-ons is fairly different than with the Speiglers on there.Your bike will feel 'different'.Your weight will be back further...and that WILL affect the frontend behavior to some degree.I'm not comfortable piloting the big ninja with a lighter feeling frontend at speed.But to each his own.

Good job Monte puttin those on there....very nice!

Can't see it here..but I flat blacked all the Speigler parts to match the inner fairing.Including the bars.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 3/20/2012 @ 11:26 AM *

What about splitting the difference with convertibars? They look nice and are adjustable in just about every way.

http://www.convertibars.com/

And also, where can I watch Ride like a Pro?

"If you are more upright, it's easier to stay relaxed".....You mean....leaning in and steering is 'less relaxing'?Just trying to get a picture of this...no bs intended.I found 'relaxing' is (for me anyway) dependent on how I'm 'holding' my body on my bike.If I'm using my arms primarily to hang on or whatever,I'm going to be less relaxed than if I concentrate on gripping the tank with my thighs and loosening up on the grips.It's very easy to forget what's doing what.When I'm countersteering in a corner,I'm apt to steer with my arms and such.Consciously gripping the tank and easing up on the bars will have a smoother line for me.Sometimes...often actually,I'll steer through a corner only using my palms to push.My fingers are not gripping the grips...except for my index and next finger on the throttle grip.My upper body I'm supporting with my ab muscles(by gripping the tank with my knees and thighs).The weight and all comes off the wrists and bars.But everyone rides different...so....

I mentioned this before...but...for me anyway...I try to visualize my hands and arms as a steering damper only.Pushing and all as light as possible.The bike will hold it's line,even with bumps and such in the road IF it's allowed to react as it's supposed to on it's own.Even the manual....it tells us to 'grip the tank with your knees and thighs over rough road(s)and slow down".That effectively tranfers the weight from the frontend to the center of the bike...the frontend can now react as it's designed to do.You do not want to stop the frontend from moving as it should.That's a disaster waiting to happen.The 14 is NOT known for tankslapping.A mild quick wiggle is normal.It doesn't come equipped with a damper.There's a reason for that.The chassis will be much more stable holding on with your knees and thighs.That's for rough road conditions...but it works the same for any road surface/speed.I can be very relaxed riding this way.I'm less in the windflow...and perceiving a 'closeness' with the road.Everyone's different.

You do not want your frontend 'unloading' as you're making a turn or hitting some rough road conditions.You want some weight on there.The weight of the bike and your upper body.Sitting more 'upright' and accelerating through a turn will tend to unload the frontend....you have to be careful just how much you're transferring the weight off the frontend.

You're maybe wondering why I talked about this....but I was only trying to point out the 'possibilities' of handling characteristics(that I experienced)with the higher bars.They're a cool thing for what they're intended for.I liked mine when I had em on there...just not enough to keep em on there.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 3/20/2012 @ 12:58 PM *

I put the LSL kit on my ZX10R when I converted it into a streetfighter. Very nice change for street riding.

Mad

Auron, unless you know someone who has it, you have to buy it. Google will find Ride Like A Pro instantly, he is legendary.

Grn14, pushing on the bars is very much a part of low and moderate speed turning pre-counter-steering. Above a certain speed, which varies by type of motorcycle, counter-steering becomes the primary means of direction change.

Clip-ons are great for counter-steering. This is why you like it because you ride easy fast sweepers.

But at the speed where you do a U-turn on a one lane street with cars parked on one side, you have to push and cause a dip then dip to the farthest away from your intended final path as possible, before initiating a handlebar turn using trail braking with the rear brake and friction zone on the clutch to keep the bike vertical and make the u-turn.

This is really hard to do with clip-ons.

The rake and trail, and weight distribution, on a supersport bike is geared for high speed stability, not low speed handling. You can adjust that some by moving the rider, but your ZX14 will never handle at low speed like an Electra Glide which will run rings around you in figure 8s and U-turns.

Do you guys remember the Keith Code $1 rule?

You can only spend $1 of your attention at a time. If you spend 98 cents checking out a piece of ass on a street corner, you only have 2 cents left to watch the intersection for someone going right on a red. Simple right?

On a sport bike, you are leaning over and if you let gravity take over naturally, you will put weight on your wrists. Not good. When hustling a bike through a canyon, lesser riders (such as myself) spent too much money on operating the bike, scanning the pavement, hitting my lines, watching out for cops and cagers and such. When this happens, I find myself putting extra weight on my hands because I don't have enough coin left to do it the right way. Sitting up right, like on a standard, takes this problem out of the equation.

So my question is, does a sportbike handle better with upright bars because of what I just talked about OR the change in weight distribution? The later doesn't really make sense to me since motorcycles generally like to have weight over the front wheel for loading up the front tire and decreasing steering geometry.

Auron,
I see what you're saying and agree. I myself have had that problem before with laxing and putting too much weight on my wrists rather than gripping the bike with my thighs. I'm a huge Keith Code fan and agree with much that he says about riding. The bike turns best from steering input. Leaning helps, but only to a point. You can't body steer a bike alone. The thing I find most helpful about the bars is how much more they are in line with my arms. Let me explain. Think about it and even give it a try, the next time you're out. If you were to stand on the pegs and push down on either side of the bar. The bike isn't going to react that much when pushing down. Now if you slide down more into an "attack" position, where you are pushing forward on either side of the bar, you have a total different reaction from the motorcycle. The bike will feel way more agile and "flickable" at this angle. Now what the bars do for me is bring the controls up so that they are at that level to where I'm pushing forward on the bars, but without having to be in the attack position. Hence it's more comfortable for me with being in a more upright seating position.

Now as to cornering. You do what a continuous, smooth roll on the throttle throughout the turn. You are transferring weight, but the bikes are designed for this. The rear tire contact patch is larger (not just for looks) but for a purpose. A smooth, continuous roll on also increases ground clearance and helps the bike feel more settled in the turn. This is a totally different subject so I'll stop before I get too sidetracked.

My seat is currently out for a spencer mod, so I'm really looking forward to doing some more touring!

You guys are totally missing the point.

Keith Code is talking about track days.

Motorman (Ride Like a Pro) is talking about commuting to work through town, or riding in a parade.

They are totally different riding styles, requiring totally different steering inputs.

Below about 20 mph, handlegrip steering by turning the bars in the direction you want to go is the most effective and shortest radius turning method.

Above 20 mph counter-steering becomes the only effective turning method, and short-radius work is out the window.

Okay...then read Nick Lenatsch's book.Just sayin.

Grn,
How is the new 14R comfort-wise in comparison to the first gen? I saw one at a dealership the other day and noticed the seat is different. Just wondering what you have exerianced thus far with it.

The $1 thing applies to anyone riding a motorcycle. It's how the brain processes information while riding a motorcycle, doesn't matter what you are doing on it.

Beyond that, fuck Keith Code. He wants you to open the throttle pretty much as soon as you are done braking and strill straight up and down. I was doing that for years and missing out on the best part of corner entry.

* Last updated by: Auron on 3/21/2012 @ 7:25 AM *

To Monte-compared to my 07,with a Connie seat,it's a lot more smooth and comfortable.Very pleased with mine.

Yeah, Grn, I sat on the one at the dealership and thought it felt pretty nice.

For me anyway...I could tell instantly there was a difference between the models.Subtle...but definitely different.But sitting on one can no way describe the feeling of riding one.I hope you can get a ride on one....sometime anyway.I can only compare mine to my 07.I've never ridden anyone else's 14....so I can't really say 'how much different' it is compared to some that have had suspension mods....stuff like that.Maybe none compared to some of those bikes.For me anyway...I'm quite happy and feeling good about mine.I haven't noticed anything with mine that I don't feel good about.Kawasaki did an excellent job recreating this new bike.Okay...one thing...the KTRC defaults to "1" everytime the key is cycled.Would be nice if it just 'remembered' the previous mode...and left it alone But I think I understand WHY it's like that....

I love my LSL bars.Sometime I steer with the footpegs.Sounds crazy but it works.When I took my license test on a 03 Z-1000 it was strange.Glad I didn't take it on this bike.When I was in the service I got too many points too fast.I had to take a remedial test.I was on a 75 Kaw 900 with drag bars.That thing went through the cones like a truck.
Craig

I like my stock bars I did the MSF track with my bike last year at 6" over showing my buddy what he'd have to do for test was not a problem.

audio, you understand.

With clip-ons, none of you could pass the MSF Experienced figure-8 and U-turn tests. Think you could? Take it, and scan your score card and post it, we'll see if you did those two with zero penalty points for going outside the boxes or dropping your bike.

With regular handlebars on the same bike, it will do those two no sweat.

Its simply a fact at low speeds steering comes from turning the wheel in the direction you want to go, and that works better with wider, closer handgrips.

Clip-ons good for track where counter steering is everything, bad for slow speed street maneuvering.

"With clip-ons, none of you could pass the MSF Experienced figure-8 and U-turn tests"....pretty brash statement there Priv.You're speaking for a lot of guys when you say 'none of you'.

I'm pretty dense when it comes to logical,factual,unchangeable things...like wheelbases and such...but how are you NOT able to make those manuevers on the same bike with clip-ons..yet able to do it with LSL's(or wider bars).The steering stops are at exactly the same place.It's not the bars..it's the rider.

FACT...if the wheelbase supports the size of the radius of the turn...whatever it is...and the bars allow enough left and right movement to stay within that radius....bars have nothing to do with it.Are you saying that a guy using clip-ons can't turn the bars all the way to the stop and make those turns...yet the guy with the LSL's will be able to all the time?All a guy needs to do with stock bars...is change his body position to work with the clip-on configuration.As long as the radius will work...the bike will turn...regardless of bars.

Now if you're saying'you guys aren't SKILLED enough to do this"...then that's something different altogether...which is pretty bold especially since you don't personally know how any of us ride...or what we're capable of doing.

Anyway, I really like the Speigkler kit. I just got my seat back from Spencer and could not be happier. Btw, I paid her off yesterday. She's offically all mine!!!

Cool Monte70!