Hi all
Has anyone experienced problems with their 2012 zx14r over steering? Problem I am having is it feels like the front wheel wants to "tuck under" in every turn. I'm used to having a bike with more neutral steering. I'm thinking that if I drop the forks through the triple clamp by 5-10mm it might help!!?? Anyone else thinks the 2012 oversteers a bit from stock? It's that bad on mine that after a long ride, the outside of my palms are black from the pressure of the gloves on my skin when cornering.Any suspension Guru's out there???
Cheers Scotty

What tyres are you running?

Neil

Never felt that with mine.I added some preload to the front,and a shade to the back....felt very neutral.It could be tires...I'd go with that first.

Never had that problem either and this is my 2nd ZX-14R.

I added helibar risers and tested them extensively yesterday. I like them a lot. Less pressure on the wrists and the bike steers a lot easier. It was very noticeable.

I took geometry a very long time ago so can someone explain why raising the handlebars a tad makes a bike steer easier/quicker?

+1 on the helibars

Only thing I can think of is...the leverage is now different...your body position has slightly changed...not so leaned in..if only a small amount.I noticed that with mine as well.Stock for me anyway felt like I was kinda pushing down on the bars when I went to corner or whatever.The riser made it feel as if I was pushing forward.Made a pretty good difference.Glad ya like em...they are pretty cool.I snagged all that 'goodies' stuff off my wrecked one...before they carried her away:(.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/26/2012 @ 2:09 PM *

Thanks for all the info. I'm running the factory bridgestones at the moment. Truth be told I'm not that wrapped in them. Always been a Michelin man personally. Ive got bar risers fitted as well which certainly make it more comfortable but this over steering issue was there before I fitted them. Looking around on the suspension sites on the web they all seem to say that lowering your forks through the triple clamps will slow up the steering but will help reduce oversteer. The opposite ( raising the forks through the clamps) will make the bike turn in quicker but will increase the effect of oversteer. It's really a shame because I love this bike but until I get this issue soughted Ill never really feel comfortable cornering at any reasonable speed.

You didn't have Metzler's on there from the factory?Hmmmmm.I'm wondering here...is it possible your forks from the factory are actually not positioned where they should be?Maybe the assembler(I seriously doubt)got this one set not quite right?You might want to measure the distances...just to see.Mine was neutral as could be.She'd hold a corner and line right where I set her...even to the point of being able to remove my hands from the bars...and she tracked perfectly.

Australian spec tyres are the Bridgestone battlax S20. As mentioned I'm not overly fussed on them. I've checked all the measurements and they are all within factory spec. I phoned a suspension tuner today and he suggested adding so more preload to the front. I went one ring at a time with bugger all difference. I ended up winding the preload all the way in just see if there was any dramatic change. It seemed to improve slightly but not to a point I was happy with. So Im going to take it out to the suspension shop and get them to drop the forks 5-10mm through the clamps seeing that winding the preload all the way in improved it slightly. I might add I also ride a GSXR 750 which is setup totally for the track and it handles beautifully. I could go around an entire circuit without putting any input into the bars, just using my body to steer it so I know what a neutral steering bike is like. Unfortunately my 14 isn't like that at the moment. I also tried letting go of the bars mid corner a few times just to see what would happen. Keeping my body position and lean angle the same and only slightly holding the throttle just to maintain a constant speed, the bike kept tracking deeper into the turn as if the front end wanted to turn in sharper than it needed to. Very strange and not at all confidence inspiring. I'll keep you all posted on the results.
Cheers

No...it shouldn't be wanting to fall in...nope.You'll get a quicker turn in you know by lowering your frame there in the front...sure that's what ya want?You might just want to wait till ya change tires...get those stones off there..IDK...add a bit of preload....not extreme...just enough to keep the front from pogo sticking.It IS strange your deal there.How are the roads?Are they flat...or slightly banked?...IDK.Sounds like that front tire 'may' be gripping a shade too much....pulling it in.Tire pressure?

I'm just tossing out ideas....but yours has the ABS...right?You don't suppose 'maybe' the brakes(either front or back or both)aren't possibly not releasing all the way...and you're not noticing it do you?It shouldn't be falling in on a curve.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/26/2012 @ 9:42 PM *

By dropping/pushing the forks down through the clamps (reducing the distance between the top of the fork tube to the top of the upper triple clamp which is about 21mm factory spec)will raise the front end slightly creating less of a lean angle. Thinking of starting the fork height at 15mm and seeing how it goes from there. I ride on a variety of roads ranging from race track smooth to goat trail status. Doesn't matter what Im on it still does it and I have never experienced it before, to this degree, on any of my other bikes. The only time I have felt something like this before was riding a bike with a shagged front tyre with not enough pressure in it.Also went down the tyre pressure avenue. I tried everything from 30psi right through to 45psi. Certainly the higher pressure made it a bit better.....40 seems to be the sweet spot. Brakes, pretty sure there not grabbing but something to consider thou. If changing the fork height doesn't do anything Ill turf the bridgestones and put a set of michelins on. I've never had any issues with them before so at least I can eliminate tyres from the equation. All very frustrating that's for sure. Thanks grn14 for your input. Much appreciated.

Have you checked your sag front & rear? mine out of the box with compression fully wound in was 46mm at the front.
These things are very under sprung for us more argh chubby chaps! ended up with 1.1n/mm springs & ohlins valving in mine!
Hope you get it sorted!

Neil

Hi Neil
I took your advice and had the suspension tuned to my weight. They replaced the front springs and revalved the forks and revalved the rear shock then set it to my weight. Very happy with the results. The ride is much plusher and soaks up all the nasties our roads throw at us. This oversteer problem was there before I had the suspension done. It improved slightly with the work but not dramtically so I'm taking it back to them tomorrow to see if we can get it soughted.

Wonder if the '12's higher weight and longer swingarm has anything to do with this? My '07 steers just fine (for a machine that weighs 550 lbs) with the forks slid up 1/2" over the factory recommended 3/4" above the top tree.

That is a mystery for sure...having to adjust fork height to get a brand new bike to steer correctly.Never heard of this before.I'd be quite upset if I had to do this to my new 14.From the factory...steering this way.svscott shouldn't have to do these suspension changes with a new bike...something isn't right.@svscott...if you could get the front up of the ground...check those bearings and free play....maybe you'd find something?IDK.That's not normal for the 14,14R.

She should be tracking just like your other bike...that GSXR .Neutral.I did the same thing with all my 14's...like you did...in a curve...barely touching the throttle tip to maintain speed...They never once fell into the turn.Did it several times...even with that throttlmiester holding the speed.Tracked smooth and sure.I even lowered my front and rear at one point 1" each.WAY too much....but she still held the curves without falling in(my 07).

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/27/2012 @ 9:15 AM *

"my palms are black from the pressure of the gloves on my skin when cornering"...you may have said it right there...just how fast ARE you cornering?This bike weighs in a bit more than the earlier ones...and at a fast clip....you COULD be experiencing something totally normal...depending.I never really checked mine while cornering REALLY fast to see how much I was pushing to countersteer.It 'probably' will be more force....certainly more that your lighter bike.I do know...on a few high speed sweeps..I've had to push pretty good to keep her on a line...because of the weight.But it wasn't anything wrong with the bike...just physics.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/27/2012 @ 9:21 AM *

I'll suggest a different twist.

First, my ZX is an '09, not a ZX R. I also have a CBR 1000 which I trailered on vacation this past summer and thus rode the CBR exclusively for six weeks. When I got back home and immediately took my ZX for a ride, I found it oversteered as you mention here. But I never felt that oversteer before I spent six weeks exclusively on my CBR. I have thoroughly checked my ZX and have not found anything wrong, I just figured it's a question of what you get used to.

You mentioned you also have a GXSR 750, maybe that's the issue, maybe.

EDIT: I just put new tires on my ZX and the slow speed oversteer is gone. Sorry for the confusion, but I am glad I have a chance to clarify this.

* Last updated by: runnerhiker on 12/1/2012 @ 4:26 PM *

"It's that bad on mine that after a long ride, the outside of my palms are black from the pressure of the gloves on my skin when cornering."

OK, you know your own riding style but to me this suggests your gripping the bars WAY too hard? Personally I'd call the '12 model 14 just on the quick steering side of neutral for a bike of it's size. It (pleasantly) suprised me on the first ride, the handling belying it's size/looks but certainly no trace of oversteer. Comment has been passed how 'what you're used to' affects your perception of how a bike handles and IMO this is a BIG factor. When the first Fireblades (the best model IMO) came out people were being caught out 'cos they steered so much quicker than the contemporary superbikes of the day but it wasn't because there was anything wrong with them. They were just so different (better)!
Back to the 14, I too wasn't all that impressed with the OE tyres and I'm much happier with the Michelin Pilots.
Hope you get it sorted.

* Last updated by: pegscraper on 11/27/2012 @ 1:19 PM *

Thanks for all your input guys. The most frustrating thing about all this is that I love everything else about this bike. Maybe it IS normal for it to handle this way......I just don't seem to remember the test bike handling this way. Maybe I was caught up in the whole "new bike" thing to really notice it. I rode a SV1000S for about 9 years prior to this. It weighed barely over 200kg fully fuelled. It handled beautifully at any speed with none of the above effects on my hands.
I'll get the boys to check the bearings/ free play when I take it out there.
One thing I will mention. When going through a corner I tried excelerating quite hard/very hard and it eliminated the problem straight away. The obvious reasoning, in my line of thinking, for this would be that:
1. I'm unloading a lot of the weight off the front wheel therefore decreasing the contact surface patch of the tyre on the road.
2. By excelerating hard, I'm causing the rear end to compress/squat to a certain degree which effectively has the same effect as raising the front end of the bike. Which is what I would be achieving, to a certain degree, by pushing the forks 10mm down through the triple clamps.

Oh this is hurting my head. I'm going back to bed.
Cheers

You shouldn't need to adjust any chassis setup.What's the wear pattern on the front so far?How does it act in a U-Turn?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/27/2012 @ 4:02 PM *

Front tyre wear looks pretty normal. U-Turns are very easy as thats all it wants to do!! lol

"U-Turns are very easy as thats all it wants to do!! lol".... Sorry....I could see you saying thatLOL!

I also jacked up the front end. No evidence of brakes grabbing or bearings in the headset binding. All looks normal. Starting to think thats its just a trait of the bike......its just MY interpretation of the handling. Anyway I'll keep working on it. :)

Either side want to fall in more than the other?When I get my new one...I'll test this deal out.Maybe I was just used to the steering....IDK...but I'll see if mine acts like yours...maybe it actually will?Wouldn't THAT be the shit!All this time...and I thought mine was neutral!

As I said. I'm thinking this is just a trait of the bike that most people fine normal for a heavy bike. Its just that I don't like it this way and am not use to a bike handling like this. So I'm trying to get it to perform the way I want. Hopefully I will find a good compromise that will make riding it more enjoyable.
Cheers