Hey guys. Just wanting to know if anyone trusts the notches on the swingarm for alignment. I am using the laser method. Same idea as Romans posted before but instead of a mechanical its just a laser that shines down the length of the chain. I'm sure some of you use it. SO the laser is running down the top of the outside link all the way down the chain. Looks like a great alignment. But when you compare the notches they are off a noticeable difference. Also When I do a quick measurement from the scraping pegs on the bottom of the footpegs to a fixed location on the swingarm and even that shows off about .5cm. So although the measurements are showing off the laser if pretty dead on. Makes more sense to trust the laser but I wanna know what you guys think. Thanks!
Jack

I have used the swingarm marks and Gyles Tooling chain adjusters. Both my rear sprockets seemed to wear more on the outside. I'd trust the laser. Couldn't be worse than other methods.

"shines down the length of the chain"....the bike's on a rear stand?I'm curious here...just how does that 'show' an 'aligned' chain?If the bike's on a stand,the chain still could be not aligned yet be perfectly 'straight' from the last link on the countershaft at the top(heading into the run)(going rearward),and last link of the chain at the top of the rear sprocket(heading into the run)(forward).Correct me if I'm wrong about this.

"Just wanting to know if anyone trusts the notches on the swingarm for alignment"... I do(Kawasaki says so as well;) ).

Line er up with your lazer.Cover inside/outside teeth with a light coat of black paint(brush on/let dry).Go ride.For a mile or so.Now check rear teeth.Avoid curves for this'test'.Whattaya see there on the sprocket?

You can use some masking tape to avoid getting paint on the lower portion of the sprocket.

Just in case here...you are referring to the axle adjustments,right?NOT the alignment,yes?That's something different.

There is a way to get the adjustments correct and lined up with the hash marks.Very simple.When adjusting...LOOK THROUGH the axle while setting those marks.(sit right in front of it).ALWAYS kick tire in from the back(after reinstalling it).You should ALWAYS need to adjust the wheel moving back(taking up slack),not moving towards the front.(Unless it's a new sprocket).

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/20/2015 @ 8:32 PM *

Just in case here...you are referring to the axle adjustments,right?NOT the alignment,yes?That's something different.

Yeah, kick the tire forward before you tighten. Also helps to put the axle nut on the RH side so when you tighten you are pushing the wheel forward against the adjuster bolts instead of pulling it away...but if you pulled the wheel out of alignment you would see that with the hash marks...or I guess your laser would not shoot straight down your chain side plates.

Just to clarify I was tightening up the chain. But let's just assume the whole thing is out of whack. How would YOU realign everything.

Shouldn't the concern be "wheel alignment" being aligning the front and rear wheels together?

The laser down the chain will align gearbox to sprocket, but not the chassis.

There are gadgets and the string method, etc. Never really been happy with any of those.

There are some pretty fancy systems that can be used to align and adjust
everything from wheel alignment, swing arm angle, rake, etc. but no one in Phoenix
has one.

I'd really like to find something I felt confident in to align front and rear wheels.

Ideas?

* Last updated by: piken on 9/20/2015 @ 9:43 PM *

Where do you aim this lazer at?And where at the rear do you set it to get front and back sprockets 'aligned'?I can see the chain deal...but again...that could be straight,yet one or both sprockets NOT aligned.5 mm isn't much.Not sure you could even detect that(visually) along a chain run like ours.

The string method would be good...but you can't get it into the front sprocket area accurately.Not with the chain on there?Or on the rear either.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/20/2015 @ 10:05 PM *

No .5 CM. this is exactly what I use Grn

Align the wheels with two long straightedges. Bungee them to the rear tire and then check measurements to the wheel rim on both sides, front and back to make sure all 4 numbers are the same. Then, align the wheels by fiddling with the chain adjusters until you get 4 numbers to the front rim exactly the same and they should each be 1 1/4" more than the measurements to the rear rim (not the tire) The rear wheel is a 6" and the front is 3.5". so that's a 2.5" difference divided by 2=1.25" Once you have the wheels in line, adjust the chain by turning the chain adjuster bolts equal numbers of flats in or out and note whether the marks on the swingarm are accurate and if not, by how much. You may be surprised how much they can be off.

I measure the centerline of the swing arm bolts on each side to the center of the rear axle on each side. I take my time. It gets me close I guess!

"I measure the centerline of the swing arm bolts on each side to the center of the rear axle on each side. I take my time. It gets me close I guess!"

+1 has worked good for me !

I know it's been said and resaid a million times on a million forums...but WHY would Kawasaki say to align the hash marks evenly on both sides for the axle 'alignment' if it wasn't valid?They're covering their corporate butts on this.Aside from the fact that it IS the correct way to align the chain to the countershaft sprocket.

They make ZERO mention of using anything other than eyeballing the hash marks.They don't say..'count the number of turns on the adjuster bolts'....they don't say...'use a lazer'...or anything else.

I'd ask here...what results in getting the adjuster bolts the same amount of turns does this have on the hash marks?Where is the starting point?Using the marks?If so...why so.Since they're supposedly unreliable.

Not trying to stir anything up...but it seems like a long way around to get to the same result?

So you what..install the chain on the sprocket.Run the adjusters all the way in,then back out counting the turns?Till you get to what?Equal line-up of both sides at the hash marks?

Why not simply line up the marks with the adjusters and call it good?It isn't rocket science..(thank God).

Maybe try this then.Install wheel.Have adjusters turned ALL THE WAY IN.Count the turns back out and keep equal...take up chain slack to factory specs turning both adjusters the same amount of turns.Now...did both adjusters require the same amount of turns from fully in to fully adjusted?And where on the hash marks are these lines now sitting?Equal?Or off.And just what IS the final validation point?The turns?or the hash marks.

I would say for me anyway...if I did it by counting bolt turns...and my hash marks were off,I wouldn't be riding it like that.All being equal...the adjuster bolts SHOULD require the same amount of turns to get equal hash mark line-ups.Do they?If not,then it's the swingarms's fault?The stamped lines aren't accurate?

I'd be a bit concerned if I found the marks stamped in there were off.I think Kawasaki would be also.Seriously doubt they'd be leaving a faulty component as critical as this unattended to.

Can anyone show me a sprocket with unusual wear when it's been aligned with the hash marks?

I'm not saying "don't do it your way"...I'm just asking really...WHY are you doing it the way you are?When the manual clearly states something different?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/21/2015 @ 7:21 PM *

You know what Grn, you may be right, they use lazers for everything now, which are extremely accurate,
so setting up the hash marks exactly same on both sides of the swingarm should be easy ....

I'm going to measure the hash marks on both sides, and I bet they are even ....

I mean...really...are the marks aligned at the factory when you pick up your new 0 miles bike?Of course they are.Did they count bolt turns and adjust by counting?I doubt it.Nor did they use a laser for it either.The marks are totally accurate.

Bolt turns are not accurate...there's variance in the threads...the bolts themselves.The soft swingarm threaded holes.All that starts wearing from the first series of adjustments...though it isn't much...it does add up over time.The marks NEVER change.

If you're relying on bolt turns for this...I don't know where you'd start counting from?Unless I'm completely not getting the concept of 'adjusting counting turns'.I mean...I might take a mental note of how many turns I did for either side...but my final decision is the hash marks...turns mean nothing...those will change everytime you do a sprocket change,chain swap...any of that.Even a slack adjustment...those turns might not be the same on each side to align the marks.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/21/2015 @ 7:52 PM *

Well the marks are exactly the same on both sides !

Yes, you are missing the concept about the adjusting bolts.

First and most important is "wheel alignment" front and rear
wheel and how they track together. Are they aligned? There's
many issues if they're not. Everything from head shake, uneven
tire wear, hard to turn in the bike into the corner, etc.

Using the hash marks will not align the front and rear wheels together.

I tell ya what let's just forget about the hash marks. Ignore them, let's
say they are no longer there.

Now align front and rear wheels using (take your pick) string method,
long straight edge, I know people that use long florescent light tubes
or have professionally done on equipment that is made to align.

Once properly aligned, here's the bolt part, (remember we no longer
have any hash marks) all "future adjustments" are made by counting
the turn of the bolts or flats in order to maintain the alignment and
not using the hash marks.

There's a lot that can throw off the bikes alignment. How true is the
frame, triple tree, forks, wheels, swing arm after a few thousand miles
of high horse power, high speed, bumpy roads and a few dozen hard front end
landings?

These bikes are made out of as much light weight material as the can be and
doesn't take much to throw them out of whack if the stresses come from
a slightly different angle then the engineers computer design of stresses.

I'm sure the hash marks are the easiest and simplest way to make quick
alignment when adjusting the chain. The most accurate, I don't think so.

I understand the concept of a total alignment, but with the front wheel,
how would you know it is PERFECTLY straight aligned in order to set
a wheel to wheel alignment ? like say a four wheel car alignment ?

Seems like there is a good change of it not being 100% accurate ?

"SO the laser is running down the top of the outside link all the way down the chain. Looks like a great alignment. But when you compare the notches they are off a noticeable difference".Okay...there it is.Now..which will someone go with?The manual?or another(unmentioned in the manual)way?One works,one not so good.

"I understand the concept of a total alignment, but with the front wheel,
how would you know it is PERFECTLY straight aligned in order to set
a wheel to wheel alignment ? like say a four wheel car alignment ?
Seems like there is a good change of it not being 100% accurate ?"..my thoughts exactly.

For Piken's comment...we're not talking about the wheel to wheel alignment.You can't say'if the hash marks weren't there'.That's the only way to really know if the axle is lined up with the countershaft sprocket.Imagine trying to get the axle correct without hash marks.Guys have used the bolt turn method for adjusting...and they say(some)that the marks are not aligned.So where's that leave it?No way to tell really if it's lined up or not.I guess you could measure the bolt length on each side..from swingarm hole to bolt head surface.But with out the marks...you'd never really know for sure.You could 'assume' they're right,they might be or not.

Rear alignment of the sprockets has nothing to do with the front wheel being aligned with the rear.

If someone wants to truly make certain the sprockets are lined up...remove chain from front and rear.Now take a yardstick...and place on the outboard surface of the two sprockets.Are they flush each one?at both ends?If so,then it's aligned.

I think I'll stick with the manual's instructions on this deal.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/22/2015 @ 8:28 AM *

I'd have to ask...WHY isn't the laser confirming hash mark alignment?Equal on both sides that is.It should.

I dunno guys. Looked at my gixxer. On each side the notches are lined up and tested it with the laser and it went perfectly down the chain on the link as it should. So why the heck is my ZX not lining up properly then?

"but with the front wheel,how would you know it is PERFECTLY
straight aligned in order to set a wheel to wheel alignment ?"

If the front wheel is not turned straight you would not be able
to align it. You would not be able to turn the front to
match the rear if the rear if off your straight edges would
not have even gaps. Image the front wheel turned to left by 1/2" and
rear off to left, your straight edges would not lay even
across both wheels, etc. Not sure if that made any sense but
just image 2 separate Y-Axis points deviated from 0 degrees, you would not
be able to run a set of parallel lines besides them without gaps.
Yep the above sounds like a lot of bs to me, hope It made some sense.

"Rear alignment of the sprockets has nothing to do with the front wheel being aligned with the rear."

That would be true if the rear sprocket was not attached to the rear wheel.

OK, Some people just want to line up there sprockets, good for chain/sprocket wear I guess,
I prefer to try and line up the wheels so the bike tracks correctly.

"Just wanting to know if anyone trusts the notches on the swingarm for alignment"

I do not.

(referring to his gixxer)On each side the notches are lined up and tested it with the laser and it went perfectly down the chain on the link as it should. So why the heck is my ZX not lining up properly then?

Gonna ask a dumb question here....have you recently removed the rear wheel?Anyone know where I'm going with this?

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/23/2015 @ 8:52 AM *

Thought this 'simple' alignment video was pretty cool.

I've done this a few times...and checked the marks/adjuster block line.They were exactly at the same mark on either side.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/23/2015 @ 8:51 AM *

Motion pro makes a chain alignment tool also :

Click Here for Link !!!!

Grn, the tires got changed last summer by the shop as a matter of fact.