Hey folks,

I have the zx14 2006 for 2 months now at 28K Km. I have always felt a pulsating feeling coming from the front brakes. Could they be warped? I am reading all kinds of articles on zx14 brakes being noisy, not so performant etc...this only seems to happen at low speeds like less than 50Kms/hr

Thoughts ?

André

The noise problem you are hearing about is probably a squeaking noise at low speed. OEM pads do that because they chatter against the rotor when light on the brake. EBC Double H pads have holes in the backing plate that are said to eliminate the chatter noise. I haven't heard any noise with my double H pads until they had about 30,000 mile son them. The squeaking never came back but they would judder a little at low speed with the OEM rotors.

ZX-14 brakes are second to none as far as performance goes. Better than anyone needs for street riding.

Sounds like your problem is different. I'd say warped rotor, maybe. Also could be a cupped front tire which seems to create a similar sensation.

check this thread out.

http://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=825AE51A-9D37-CC2F-0CFF82B570DABA56

Does the tread of the front tire look or feel like it has waves around the circumference? That's cupping. From using hard breaking with a heavy bike.

Otherwise, you need to use a dial gauge to check the rotor for warpage. I used to hear a lot about rotors warping on the 14.

Thanks for the responses ! The tire is new (Metzeler M5) so no indication there...the pads are relatively good. an upgrade is probably a good idea. a friend of mine has a machine that can measure variations on a turning component...I'll check that. I guess its common to have warping issues, even at 28K...

thanks man

André

Only way to know for sure if the rotor is warped is to check the run-out with a dial indicator. Don't know what the allowable specs are but I'm bettin someone does, hopefully they'll chime in and answer.

.006" or less is the 'serviceable runout.' Add .004" more and it's junk @ .010"

With the wheel in the air, a sharp pencil tip, the front fender as the brace, run the tip at the outer edge of the disc. Spin the wheel first to see how little room there is to run a dial indicator there, let alone the shaking dial will take that will occur on the spin.

So the quick and dirty is to keep the pencil tip away from the cooling holes, drag the pencil closer on fender, until you see that [in and out gap] the tip is going to expose. Once you catch the gap, or if you can't, run tape on the rim, run a chalk mark over a letter or number on the tire, something to see who is showing the narrow or large gap, because .003" or less is half that within the serviceable gap, meaning, we might be within spec.

agiroux, if you're serious, just get a cheap dial gauge and magnetic base. ...and a cheap wheel balancing stand. OK, $130 of stuff there but cheaper than new rotors and you'll use that stuff again.

see steps 17-19 in tutorial link below

http://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=FD2A4FD7-1372-66AE-3BACEDB7D6E3004F

GLAD YOU'RE BACK WHERE YOU BELONG HUB!

* Last updated by: Rook on 11/13/2014 @ 5:46 PM *

Hub, you're back!!! Missed your colorful commentary, glad you've returned!!!

If you do like Rook suggests and get a dial gauge with a magnetic base you can leave the wheel on the bike. Get a metal tool box, load some bricks or something equally heavy in it, set it on floor next to wheel and stick your gauge to it. Not the most elegant solution but it'll work and it cheap!

Missed your colorful commentary, glad you've returned!!!

1. Take a credit card, tape it on the disc, and find the no hole spot to drag the tip at just in case. Or, you'll never touch the disc having that card's gap, so off the front fender, place the pencil anywhere near the edge of the disc.
2. Sharpen a pencil tip and tape it [on the fender] so the tip rests on the card.
3. Once the pencil is stable, roll the card so you roll away from the tip, not jam into it the other way.
4. With the card and tape removed off the disc, you now have a gap you can see come closer or farther away from the pencil tip.
5. Spin the wheel in that one direction and if there is a warp from that distance, you found the disc.
6. Swap sides and setup the pencil the same way. This will determine if it's the one disc only, or both discs look questionable.

...but there is a certain amount of warp that is within spec. I think it was .01" Anything more is supposed to be replaceed. Can we see 1/100 inch? I think you just might if yu are watching very closely but to estimate that with your eye. No way. The credit card trick would tell you if the disk was warped badly though.

You might also try finding the high spot and the low spot in the disk warp. Measure the disk thickness at the low spot with a micrometer (Harbor Freight, $6). Affix the pencil on the high spot so the tip just touches. Using scotch tape, apply layers to the lowest spot of the warp after each turn of the wheel. Continue to apply tape one layer at a time until the pencil tip just kisses the tape. Measure the thickness at the low spot again now that the tape has built up the distance between it and the high spot. Subtract the tape buildup measurement from the measurement you took before you applied the tape. There's your disk warp. Is it < or > .01"? More, you buy new rotors. If you're gonna go through all this, I'd just buy the magnetic base and dial gauge for $10 more than what the micrometer cost. Of course, you're going to need a way to hold the front wheel stable and off the ground. Front fork lift stand would be the best...or an AABA with the front lift attachment...and then tie the forks all the way to one lock so they can't move. This is going to cost you money no matter what you do. If you haven't got this stuff, trust me you'll use it again and again if you do your own bike work. If not, the shop will cost you. Find a good one. Probably not the dealership.

* Last updated by: Rook on 11/14/2014 @ 5:31 AM *

Now that Hub is back I need to go find my Magic Decoder Ring so I can figure out what the hell he is talking about!!!

Keeps life interesting! LOL

You know, I can't even tell anymore. reading Hubbish is just like reading Mother Goose to me.

...but there is a certain amount of warp that is within spec.

I think it was .01" Anything more is supposed to be replaced.

What in the fuck don't you understand?

1. Fridge magnet card.
2. Painter's [blue] tape.
3. Welding rod/pencil/pointed implement, etc.

Slide card away and remove.
Sight down the disc between rod and disc as you spin.

^^Great way to check for warpage (if there is any) but you can't measure it that way....unless you have a set of feeler gauges or else you're back to using layers of tape and a micrometer to measure the warp. If it's warped half as much as a credit card, that is major warp. I'd estimate a credit card is about .03 inch.

My 14r also has squeaky brakes at slow speed. replaced original pads with double H, still squeaks. + now I get a shuddering / vibration under hard braking, from time to time, not sure if thats the abs kicking in or what. Double H brake performance is excellent, much more initial bite and more feel. Took out the pads today to see why I get the shuddering / vibration, everything is as it should be, nothing worn or warped our out of place. Hopefully test ride today will tell me a bit more

Mine have always squealed even since the test ride. It's never been anything I considered bothersome or unforgivable. I suppose if I had the choice there'd be no squeal. But I love her so much it's just a character thing, kind of like some of the other minor issues (rattles, etc.).

+ now I get a shuddering / vibration under hard braking, from time to time

Do you have OEM rotors? My HHH pads do the same thing with my Carrazeria rotors. These are very thin rotors and they have the extra grab material in them so organic pads or OEM are recommended. Are your rotors worn pretty thin? Maybe this is a situation that happens with thin rotors. The pads had some wear on them from use with my OEM rotors. The groaning noise reduced somewhat after 10000 miles. That's a long wait. Next time I get new rotors, I will definitely get new pads and follow the manufacturers recommendations for compatibility.

* Last updated by: Rook on 12/24/2014 @ 10:20 PM *

1. Shutter: For lack of a better word, think of a tire stem and that's the heavy point of the wheel. So at 12 o'clock you let go of the wheel, the stem is at 1 o'clock and now watch the wheel balance drop to 6 o'clock is where the stem is at. Do we agree?
a. A tire has this cupping pattern around the tire.
b. The balance of the wheel goes out of balance due to the loss of rubber around that area.
c. Squid City Sam keeps the balanced ounces on the same area where the new tire came into balance.
d. Sam now hits the brakes and there seems to be some sort of 'shutter,' 'bump-diddy-bump' kind of Morse code coming up thru the grips. Can we agree on this?

2. Disc Warp: This type of action is when you feel the pedal begin to push out and it has this pumping of fingers movement reaction. Do we agree?
a. The pad moves in on the warp. At a certain point the disc returns to square lets say and this now pushes the pad back out.
b. This is where the fluid moves back up the line, presses against the plunger in the master...
c... For every action there is an equal and opposite warp at the disc to lever. Can we agree on this?

3. Pad Squeak: Here is where Squid City Sam sends the VicSteerDickSteer foot on the pad for all it's worth down to the bitter end and the front discs are cooler to the touch.
a. Isn't VicSteer heating up that rear disc like way too over extended, when the fronts pull you down on the 80% side of ability, meaning, stopping faster with the front brakes?
b. The rear is being used longer, the pad is more on a sustained polishing excursion, rather that stab the brakes a lot later.
c. The later you brake, the less heat buildup. The fear of the fronts is more you practice the short stops so the warp does not happen. I cannot see that many discs out there that do not warp. Might this expose one to the way they brake? Too much time on the lever/pedal? Here is 'wear' you don't have to agree.

The bottom line breakdown is:
1. Do I have a worn tire faking a warp?
2. Do my disc(s) show a sever deflection, I add the lever pulse to it too?
3. Do I find myself on the rears more than the fronts? How long is the application sustained for both? Where are my pressure percentages on the lever and/or pedal when coming to a stop?

Trick:
Q. How do I remove the squeak in the pads?
A. Remove pads, 'scrub only the glaze off' on a clean cement sidewalk. The more rough the cement, the faster the shave. 3 or 4 back and forth moves to deglaze. Too many strokes and you lose pad thickness. Do not wipe the dust off. Do not touch the surface once shaved. Reinstall. Break the habit of too much time on the braking.

"Break the habit of too much time on the braking"...nice...;).

I thought I'd read Hub's post this thread, after seeing Grn's quote. I figured Hub may have had some useful information. Once again that turns out not the case. Of course, since Hub was corrected this thread that his idiotic technique for measuring warp was faulty, he's got to bring me up in his little Dr. Seuss instructional guide for retards. In Hub's mind, he's always right. Always (in his mind). If you disagree, you're just too stupid to understand.

For anyone new, Hub writes out his little step-by-step rants this way because he believes his knowledge is so superior to yours that you can't comprehend it otherwise. Honestly, did anyone here learn anything from Hubs post about squeals and glazed pads? Anyone? If you did, please be sure to state exactly what you learned. Because I didn't learn anything. But in his mind, and this is vital for you to understand, he's the only one here that knew any of that.

So when he tells you step-by-step how to do something even though it's wrong 50% of the time, it's your fault if you don't understand. In his mind he's always right no matter what, and if you think he's wrong then you're just the idiot he believes you to be.

NOT

Signed - VicSteerDicSteer

Hub was corrected this thread that his idiotic technique for measuring warp was faulty

In Hub's mind, he's always right. Always (in his mind). If you disagree, you're just too stupid to understand.

So when he tells you step-by-step how to do something even though it's wrong 50% of the time, it's your fault if you don't understand. In his mind he's always right no matter what, and if you think he's wrong then you're just the idiot he believes you to be.

Things like scrubbing pads is called, 'can't call the factory [each time there is a problem] and ask how to remove the customer complaint.' So again, improvise with a little common sense and you solve the 'no comeback' way of making the customer happy. Even though they use the same pads in the same bikes, but his/her habit is too much rear brake work as if Vic showed you how to ride a bike. He brings in his weak habits and you have two shitty riders on the road... LOL

For anyone new, Hub writes out his little step-by-step rants this way because he believes his knowledge is so superior to yours that you can't comprehend it otherwise.

Now, ignore the other posters and help the OP. Show that ego of yours you know your shit. Yeah right.

Dr. Hubeusse why don't you post some more of your videos showing us all the proper riding techniques...at 45 mph. This old wind bag can't even push his bike to redline without requiring a diaper change.

Vic, I don't expect for you to have front disc warp problems. You take it in the rear, is that correct?

I'd ask you to post your 100s of training videos on that...but I guarantee no one wants to see that!