Cant comment on the various differences between flashes, but from what I have read; they are all pretty close in power. GET ONE OF THEM! DO IT!

As I get more and more seat time on my bike with its newfound power (brocks full ex, pcv, guhl flashed, bmc filter, custom tune); I keep amazing myself. Not so much by the power increases on the big end, aka 8-9000+. But by the increased throttle response and midrange that the ECU flash gives. IF I had really known how different it would be, I would have done it ASAP. First thing, for sure.

Its a totally different bike, more like what a "next gen" zx14r(r) lol would be. Not sure exactly how to describe it.

But for sure, how do I KNOW its better? I can tell you. I surprised myself. And in the end, I was giggling like a little school girl. So, heres the deal. Im out riding one of my favorite roads that has a few little crests (small hills) and some ok corners. My friend on his 01 Fz1 is behind me. Im not pushing really hard, wanting to keep him in sight behind me, since he's pretty new to the rd. I'm just blipping the gas going over a few of the rises and dips in the road. fun stuff, w/o going hard. Ive got it in F1, roads were still a bit cold low 40's out.

and I roll it on a bit, maybe 50% throttle in third; as I clear the rise in the road; and up she comes. power wheelie in 3rd, half throttle, at maybe 5-6K rpm's. It floated about a foot above ground, nice and easy. I rode it a bit and set er back down. pumped my fist in the air, and yelled WHOOOO! Its just the little surprise of it, and the fact that Ive NEVER had a bike loft the front tire so easily. My modded 03 R1, which should have been kind of a wheelie machine never powered it up in 2nd, other than during a redline shift. Let alone 3rd.

WHAT A MONSTER THIS IS! Its sweet and docile, and forgiving; but it will also catch you out and surprise you. TERRIFFIC!!!

Rod442 your riding one of the very best set ups the ZX14R has ever seen. The 1/4 mile Time To Distance stats tell the complete story. Results can be achieved in many ways but to date You ride the king. Congrats.

Next time turn the TC off. I swear it has a little something extra when it's off.

The creamy torque and smooth throttle response has gotta be the best part of the whole flash!

I realize there are other aspects, but the main differences are that A reflash affects both your air fuel ratio as well as your ignition timing, whereas a piggyback just alters your air fuel ratio

is this correct?

* Last updated by: ZX14MAN64 on 5/13/2014 @ 6:58 AM *

Yes and no. Flash has an ignition map you can alter all day long with each cell. You'd have to buy another piggy for the pc to alter the ignition. So if the pc can alter the fuel it can alter the ignition.

The beauty of the pc is a disconnect brings it back to stock.
The hassle of a flash is to reburn it back to stock.

The beauty of the pc is a quick connect to the monitor to alter the change.
The hassle of the flash is to remove the ECU, find that one move and start all over.

The beauty of the pc is how fast you can change the tune.
The hassle of the flash is one flash to 3 pc changes as in the time it takes to gain some ground on the tuning.

The beauty of the pc is it can autotune from a preset and improve the tune from there.
The hassle of the flash is once it's flashed that is the tune.

but the main differences are that A reflash affects both your air fuel ratio as well as your ignition timing, whereas a piggyback just alters your air fuel ratio

Yes and No. The After ECU piggy back controllers can do both fuel and timing.(see pic 2007 set up)

With today's PCV and the addition of the Dyno Jets Ignition module you also have the ability to accomplish Timing and Fuel.

What Pigs can't do is make your throttle plates open sooner or remove Safety mode. Here is where the flash shines.

You could just remove the throttle plates to solve one problem, but your timing map gets pulled in Safety Mode. Safety Mode when tripped pulls Timing from 1800 RPM to 7500 RPM as much as 30% in some places UGH ! For this to be solved a ECU flash is a must have.

TIP: If you are street racing,,, As long as you don't hit it until RPM is above 7500 All is good. As long as you are aware of this all is good.

Using the PCV allows you on your bike to go to any Race shop and dial in your AFR to exactly what we know to work. If you are a racer chasing perfect for your bike your fuel your elevation with the days AR, this still remains the easiest way to get the most out of your bike as most Dyno shops don't flash ECU's yet.

Both ways have their pros and cons.

Lee Pritchard is running 13.4 to 13.6's AFR pulling down 8.4s in the quarter. Smooookin Fast Now those #'s tell the complete story of where you need to be AFR wise. Riding the beast at his talent level takes ??????

Hope this helps clear up any you question you may have Cheers.

* Last updated by: Romans on 5/13/2014 @ 8:13 AM *

The beauty of the pc is it can autotune from a preset and improve the tune from there.
The hassle of the flash is once it's flashed that is the tune.

Yes and also need to be said if you want to improve your Tune you will still need a PCV after the flash and you the rider can no longer Map share if fueling was made in the ECU.

You can log box autotune with the wolli now.

Romans wrote:

"What Pigs can't do is make your throttle plates open sooner or remove Safety mode. Here is where the flash shines.
"

So the benefit of a good ecu flash over a mapped PCV alone is not an increase in peak hp and torque, but only a more responsive/ less hindered acceleration low/mid range from the safety mode being omitted? ( and the rev limiter omitted as well)

Rod wrote:

"I keep amazing myself. Not so much by the power increases on the big end, aka 8-9000+. But by the increased throttle response and midrange that the ECU flash gives. "

This observation of Rods would correlate that a meatier mid range is the main benefit of a flash.

I gotta admit more peak output would be nice ( fir bragging rights!) but I would love the arm straightening torque to come on as early and and strong as these guys say it does with a flash

As you can see, I like to thoroughly look into things before making a decision!

* Last updated by: ZX14MAN64 on 5/14/2014 @ 10:38 AM *

Romans wrote: "What Pigs can't do is make your throttle plates open sooner or remove Safety mode. Here is where the flash shines."

Also worth mentioning is the top speed limiter get removed. RPM limiter gets raised 500 RPM and you get to enjoy the benefit of some added timing.

As you can see, I like to thoroughly look into things before making a decision!

Your very close to having the Brock's Full Monty

This observation of Rods would correlate that a meatier mid range is the main benefit of a flash.

If you ask your self where is most of our time time spent. The benefit of more Mid range is clear, it's where the fun is lol.

Lovin' this info.

Lovin' this info.

Sweeet. Only bad info is the info that is not shared. Boys are doing there home work, smart

I posted about my flash in the Roman's Flash thread.
Just do it. Doesn't matter who you use I'd think. Go with where your research leads you.
Getting rid of the safety mode wakes this bike up! Getting the advanced timing is the easiest I've done to date,plug and play.
No more advanced timing wheels. I've been the whole route,from a modded ZZR1200 to a modded C-14.
This new tech is the way to ride. Plug and Play. Me likey.

I can attest to the difference between just doing a pc5 map and a flash. No real difference in peak horsepower. Biggest difference is in the lower rev range 3k to 7k range. I started out with custom pc5 map, removed flys, and slip ons. Was good but I noticed that the bike seemed sluggish up until about 7k then all hell broke loose. Got her flashed and man from 3k on she would pull like crazy, lifting the front wheel easily under power by 6k then a stupid rush to red line. Even with a 10 inch stretch I can now easily loft the front wheel if traction is there or spin the back wheel at ease or both...

Wow. A Flash must put a demonic spirit in the bike.

No peak gain, but the mid range grunt gain sounds awesome

There may even be a couple of HP peak gain. But yes, the midrange improvements and the removal of any possibility of it hitting the safety mode is what its all about. Brocks dyno video where he shows how much of a hit the bike was taking in certain circumstances shows umm 20-30 hp hit if the ECU and engine was seeing too much load in the lower gears.

That must be what I was experiencing quite often, since when I like to ride the twisty roads in our area I leave it in pretty much 3rd or 4th (rarely 2nd) and let the TQ do the work. As I said, after the flash it will pull the front wheel up (with a little help from a bump/hill) in 3rd.... At HALF Throttle and what must have been 6K. NEVER had it even done it that easy in 2nd, when it was stock.

Also, just if your racing; the +500 rpm rev limit extension allows you to be more in the power band after the shift. So even if it doesn't add a ton up top, it will allow quicker acceleration in the next gear from the shift.

So yeah, I notice a ton more "Punch" in the 4000-7000 rpm range.