As some of you may have read, I recently got in on a deal to develop Samco hoses for the Gen1 ZX-14. I will need to donate my hoses and it should take Samco about 6 weeks to make the first set of hoses which I will get to put on my bike.

So, could anything be damaged by leaving the cooling system dry for 6 weeks while I wait for Samco to turn around the new hoses? Any danger if it takes longer than 6 weeks?

1. Properly recycle the coolant and not down the sidewalk so you are drinking it later and that water table soaking it up.
2. That is saying a pre hose removal is to keep flushing the coolant out and once clean, now open the drain plug and garden hose into the filler neck. The garden hose being the super flush and now let it run down the driveway, because all that is left is water running thru the engine block and radiator.
3. Remove radiator from hoses. Leave the hoses on the engine, because now you are going to blow compressed air into the top hose, leave the lower hose open and let drips fly out until it looks pretty dry out the bottom hose.
4. Remove radiator hoses/recovery hoses/any hose with a specific bend/any hose that has anything to do with the radiator system. Any hose with a bend is what the company is after.
5. Think of a transom plug for a boat, a plastic bag [tripled] with a hose clamp on the outside where the hose went around the radi end, or a ball that fits half way up the one end of the radiator hole.
6. You knew this was coming: so the cleaning solution is going to be straight vinegar for best results. Dilute if you like. When the inside dries out or you can see it now, the residue left on the inner fins will dictate how much is corroded, which then calls the solution strength.
7. The vinegar is going to chemically remove any white crusty buildup. This has to be topped off where the one opened radiator end should be positioned at the top. This way, every surface is being touched by the vinny.
8. This may take a day or hours. How can you tell? While filling the one hole, this is going to create a fast bubbling effect. So as the last of the bubbles end at the bottom of the radiator, the more you fill the [very strongest] solution, the chemical reaction will show itself once you reach the very top of the hole with the vinny.
9. Walk away. Why? You are going to monitor the bubbling at the hole so once you top it off, you should see this action happening. Let it ride and come back in an hour or less. If the bubbles stop, that's all she wrote.
10. That means all the cleaning is done, a rinse is next with water. And the more it is flushed, the less reaction of the same thing occurring again. What is meant by that?
11. The electrolysis reappears in a dry situation too. Because of the condensation in the air you don't see. So this dry, white coating, happens again on the aluminum as it sits.
12. For some reason, a cola is sort of a neutralizer so this does not happen so fast. And that means another step in the cleaning process is to take your choice with this one.
a. You are about to remove the vinny solution out of the radi, so the next step is who do you choose?
b. Do you follow the cola [colored] soda right after you pull the transom plug and now clean the vinny off with soda?
c. Or, do you follow up first cleaning the vinny with the garden hose flush first, the soda comes next, the final rinse with the garden hose is last. btw, leave the ends open to dry and store the radi.
13. Where does that leave the engine being cleaned with water only? That may corrode the aluminum sitting dry too.
14. This is an option that says I can pour vinny in with the garden hose fill, start the engine and flush the vinny thru it this way.
15. This also says I can pour quart after quart of soda into the OE hoses and purge that vinny and now that is rinsed and blown dry thru the OE hoses, the radi, the block.
16. But here is a caution. If you are running that fast of a flush out of the engine block, letting vinny touch the rubber surface is not going to cause harm. Still, vinny needs to be cleaned and neutralized off of the aluminum and not the rubber so much.
17. Final caution. If we submerged rubber into vinny, yes, it will swell ever so slight. We are talking submerged, not using the radi hoses as a quick flush of the block and blow-dry all in a matter of minutes, no. No harm to the hoses if used for flushing purposes.

Are we counting how many ways we could flush the engine block with plain water/vinny/soda?
Are we seeing we are going to still super clean and hang the radi with vinny/soda/garden hose/air dry?

Hooboy, Hub. I already have the head cover off, need to replace gasket, throttle cables off, sensors, sparkplugs loose, wires hanging off.....no way that bike will start to flush a cooling system without a lot of work. I need these hoses off ASAP so I can send them in. Anyway, if there is chemical reactions possible with air and vinny, I DO NOT want the bike sitting dry unless I can flush it spotlessly clean like you are suggesting. I think I'd be better to let it sit with air and whatever coolant is left in it, no?

Is there some way I can just fill the water jackets with fresh coolant while it sits? That would be no problem to do with the radiator if the fittings were plugged. I'm sure the answer for the engine is NO. The coolant has to circulate much higher than the RETURN or OUT hose fittings. Anyway, IDK how I would plug all 18 of the holes while I waited for my new set of hoses to come in.

Looks like the 14 will sit dry for a month and I hope they don't take any longer than that or I may go online to find a set of used water hoses...which would be sort of defeating the purpose....but HEY, I will be a little part of ZX-14 history. My water hoses will be used to pattern Samco hoses for all eternity!

Thanks for the laundry list though. I'll copy and paste for the flush after the Samcos come in. Can't wait to hear the 14 roar again.

4. Remove radiator hoses/recovery hoses/any hose with a specific bend/any hose that has anything to do with the radiator system. Any hose with a bend is what the company is after.

LOL you're reading my thoughts. I just sent Samco an email asking if they need ALL 9 hoses. I'm sure they probably do. There may be one that they will just use a straight hose for but all look like they have special bends in them, looking at the exploded view. Think this is gonna be an expensive set of hoses. 9!

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/4/2014 @ 4:51 PM *

I miss a lot of posts when I catch the RSS only. The is mechanic mind-think meguyveer. I can never think I am stuck on the road; there is something around that gets me home say. There is something that gets it started: it was hanging in the garage someplace; in a drawer; etc.

OR? I am out the door to the auto store.
1. My hose clamp has a stopping point I find that shadow of weather over the exposed and the clean part that was hidden. Screw that in and I have this as my hose size to find.
2. I can take a piece of paper and collapse it over the nose, fold it or crunch it over it. Take tape and wrap it tight over the nose. I pull it off it should fit inside the hose clamp kind of snug or won't fit on; which is what I want after that paper crumble.
3. I'm at the counter, looking down the isle of radi hoses for car imports. Ask the guy if you can match diameter, bend, length, price?

When you walk out you should have a bend that you can fill from the top and stop at the bottom. So think of both ends serving a purpose are both ends about to be cut:
a. I want my spigot out to point down is the bottom hose out the engine block.
b. I want a way to close that off so that meant a boat plug or cork from a hardware store.
c. I have the other cut end extending out from the frame or top of the entry point so I can pour up to the top of the hose.
d. I am going to drill thru a cork, run an aluminum dowel down the cork so when I air blow from the top, no cork is blown into the block to contaminate the air drying process; the dowel has a clear hose [over it] from bulk fridge hoses for drinking water units or the like. Find that kind of clear hose.
e. I've been dumping coolant into a container and when all clean water comes out, I dump it down the driveway once I open the bottom. I want to dilute every flush so I close the bottom.
f. I now have a clean block. My air compressor is running and into that clear hose is my drying out process. At the lower hose, I see no drip at the bottom and I have the bike in the hot sun so that is a faster dry time with the air running thru the block.
g. I could pour vinny into the block as this flushing out continues, but I need that extra-extra flushing or in goes the soda and that neutralizer. But I still flush as clean as possible I taste the water.

I see. I could just go pick up some water hose at the auto supply and hook them up temporarily. I could just flush and throw in a batch of coolant and run it through the motor with the over-the-counter hoses as long as they aren't kinked. Not like i'll need to fit fairings on the bike. I'm not riding it yet. I could have hoses touching the ground if that was necessary to not kink a hose. Then when the Samcos come in, dump the fresh coolant and put on the Samcos. Another batch of coolant in. Should be perfect stregth. You did once suggest doing a flush with fresh coolant to clear out all the distilled water. Works great to get the mix perfect.

I'm having my doubts as to whether Mr Samco will ever ask me to send in my hoses. I may have I pulled them for nothing. Oh well, there's always a can of Plastidip for about $8. I'll make my own fancy hoses. They say it works on exhaust systems, I think it will hold up to the heat in a water hose.

I tried a small scale vinny experiment with carbon that had built up on the reed valves. I scooped some off and dropped it in a drop of vinny. No reaction. Vinny evaporated in 6-7 hours. Carbon looked same as always. I dropped a drop of diet Pepsi on there. No reaction. The Pepsi dried up too. Carbon is still carbon. Might this vinny and soda cleaner be an old wives tail?

My radiator had a transom plug at the bottom or that import hose closing the bottom of the radi. I am not riding the bike. I am drying parts as if hanging them up for storage. I am filling the engine with a garden hose off the house. I am flushing the system out of old coolant. I don't care if the snow comes, there is no water in my radi or engine block to expand and freeze, that was blown dry thru the cork and compressor.

Where am I riding this bike around? I am using the import hoses for easy closing of the ends and easy pour from the engine being under the frame. Are we on the same drain page flush me out, dry me out? Hold my water with a cork and cheap hose with a few bends?

We are not in meguyveer mode. Be creative, you are drying the block and drip drying the radiator. Correct, vinny evaps quick. Only way to find out is to drop that part in a plastic cup of vinny for a few days and take a chance the rubber grows and now you know. Do not let the vinny evap or fill it over the part it exposed to air. Try that. This is no wives tale, but some serious acid only a gummy carb could love.

I suspect blowing air through the motor and the rad would help remove a lot of the flush water but you'd still have some drops in there stuck to the walls. That's a long journey to travel through the motor and the water pump. Lots of stuff in the way. Lots of twists and turns. By journey's end or halfway to it, that air pressure would be pretty weak, no?

Far as the mini-vinny experiment, that will have to wait until I find another gummed up part somewhere. The reed valves are wiped off and ready to go back on. Wait until you see that bright orange cover with gold block off plates!

Being that I have the cut hose at the top; the cork with the hole; the tube down the cork; the plastic air hose on the aluminum tube dowel or brass tubing; the compressor on; the regulator set so the plastic hose does not blow off; the cut dump hose aimed down so the aim is the dripping down of the flushing; the air keeps moving; the air keeps moving and you do not think a closed loop in and no way out is out the bottom of that engine block? Come one where is the science of evaporation? Don't get old on me and have a seen your moment out that hose, now.

ok, gotcha. The air coming out has to be moving as fast as the air in. Still seems like there would likely be some pockets where the air would swirl around in trapping drops of moisture. Maybe if you did a flush with denatured alchohol that would dry out completely. just for the sake of conversation. I wouldn't try that.

We could use a fish air pump, just as long as air moves, water is going to be hit as if water got there so can the air. All you are doing is running a cigar store thru the block. A humidifier keeping things dry. A fridge that removes the sweat and keeps things dry in the veggie drawer.

Solid = In proportion, think about rain to air.
Fog = In proportion, think of those rain drops spreading out it's getting hot out, the sun is going to expand the...
Clear day = In proportion, didn't we see heat [causes things to move a molecule faster] expand what cannot be changed are the wets out of the block, yes or no I keep blowing air for hours on end call it a day in the dryer.

Don't make me washe clotheshe, pull them out of the washing machine, throw them on the clothes line or heat my fog out of the 100% cotton briefs? Get it going already or when the coolant dries it leaves a white crust and now that swims with the new coolant.

So sitting with coolant is a no-no. Sitting with a flushing of fresh water is still lift that faucet chemical out with the blow drying so as not to let it air dry on it's own and have that chemically begin to rot this world to it's original self is iron or aluminum powder more or less. It's dust to dust, blow dryer to fish bubbles, hey, you looking for trouble?

Do the work. I'm going to cut that hose right about there.

We could use a fish air pump, just as long as air moves, water is going to be hit as if water got there so can the air. All you are doing is running a cigar store thru the block. A humidifier keeping things dry. A fridge that removes the sweat and keeps things dry in the veggie drawer.

So sitting with coolant is a no-no.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/11/2014 @ 2:50 PM *

Didn't I hear you once tell someone the water pump is lubed by the coolant? That's what I was concerned about but the the little factoid wouldn't come back to memory. I knew there was something I remebered about leaving a cooling system dry. There she sits. Still dry. Have to get the motor running before I put coolant back in.

Have to get the motor running before I put coolant back in.

Belay that.

Why not just remove feed hose...fill with coolant...turn starter motor...suck coolant into water pump...then refill radiator?That wouldn't work?I mean...once the coolant hits the pump...everything will be 'lubed'...then you can proceed as if you had just changed fluids.Right?I suppose you could then 'flush' everything...if you were concerned about scaling and such...yes?I'm curious why any cutting of hoses would be an option with this procedure?No offense to anyone...Maybe I'm simplifying this too much?WHY would anyone want to air dry their cooling system?Or the tracks it takes through the motor?Better to leave that residue in there....it'll reintegrate with the fresh coolant...won't it?

Ah...wtf do I know anyways....?????

"leaving the cooling system dry for 6 weeks"....I would suspect...it's NOT actually 'dry' as it sounds here.The water may evaporate...but not the residue from the coolant.Which is coating everything inside.

Okay...I'll run along now....

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/18/2014 @ 7:45 PM *

I guess I might want to air dry it if I were to store it for a few several years. Fortunately, that won't be happening.

LOL I have NO hoses on the bike right now. Guess I should put them on. IDK if the starter would produce enough pressure to gil lthe whole system but I'd think the pump would get submerged since it's at the bottom of the bike.

Anyway, hoses, pump, fluid, starter. FOCKme I have to change gasket and get the head cover back on before I do anything! 3rd order of ThreeBond 1216B coming Thursday (I hope). They sent me 1207B which I already have a tube of for the busas stator cover. I returned and rerdered and they sent me the same tube I returned to them. They say the third time is a charm.

It's been 4 months and now the weather is very cold. I want to start the bike back up and flush the cooling system. If there is any rust from sitting empty of coolant, that would be in the radiator and possibly the water pump. Everything else should be made of aluminum and I am less concerned about that corroding.

A) Would it be worth it to remove the radiator and flush it with water first? That would eliminate any chance that any rust would be circulated throughout the system.

B) I'm a bit concerned about filling the radiator with distilled water. If the engine won't start for some reason, I'd be stuck with freezing temps and no anti-freeze. If I did fill the radiator with distilled water and the motor didn't start, could I simply drain the water from the drain plug on the water pump and then fill it with coolant to protect it from freezing?

1. Charge battery.
2. Set kill switch off and if not cranking, then pull plug connectors off the sparksticks.
3. Leave engine dry.
4. Remove tank and service doors.
5. Spray WD-40 down the velocity stacks times 4 cylinders.
6. Install door, drain tank into the car's gas tank.
7. Pour ATF in the tank and mix with the gas remaining.
8. Slosh the tank so this coats the metal at the ceiling and where it settles won't rust. So the deal is to keep it upside down a lot so you coat the top of the tank that stays wet thru condensation when sitting with a full tank.
9. Once a month, slosh the tank an replace back on frame.
10 Do not crank engine or the WD washes off the rings and coats them with condensation and that takes years to happen so you are over-storing this move with WD or engine oil, take your pick.
11. Pour anti-freeze into the pump so the blade stays wet.
12. Walk away from the bike.

We're not ready to store just yet. I have to test run the bike after all the work that was done. If there's a problem, I might forget what I did if I wait til Spring gets here.

I can pour $15 worth of coolant in there and crank it when the weather warms up to 40°. I might as well leave that in there to check for possible rust. If there is any rust, the green coolant should turn brown. If it stays green, I'll run it for a season.

Burp the lowest hose as you fill. No zip-ties!

LOL I'm done with the zip tie idea. I think it would work as long they didn't get brittle and crack but it's not worth the risk.

I know all about every hose on this bike now. I'll burp 'em all.

I can't have the bikes sitting inoperable now. The busa is stored but it's ready to fire up if need be. The 14 has to be right there with it. The Rook household has been riding the edge for quite some time now and that edge is getting mighty narrow. Tough choices to be made in the next month or two. Big changes. The busa might have to go. Probably hang on to the 14 until summer but if times are still hard, that goes. I hope I can keep both. So that's why these bikes have to be ready to run. LOL they literally might have to be used to run down the street this winter if I have to move or if they are sold.

B) I'm a bit concerned about filling the radiator with distilled water. If the engine won't start for some reason, I'd be stuck with freezing temps and no anti-freeze. If I did fill the radiator with distilled water and the motor didn't start, could I simply drain the water from the drain plug on the water pump and then fill it with coolant to protect it from freezing?

I imagine as soon as I crank the motor, the water pump is going to start pushing water up into the motor. If it's pure water, that's going into the water jackets.

I talked to the dealership mech about this today. He said Kaw permits their watercraft engines to run 30 seconds without water if a quick varification check needs to be made. He would allow a bike engine to run without coolant for a similar amount of time without worrying about heat problems. I still wonder about the water pump turning without water circulating through it. I guess I might let it run dry for a couple seconds just to see if it fires up.

* Last updated by: Rook on 11/21/2014 @ 3:42 PM *

Very simple. Walk up to the bike, turn the key on and start it. As soon as it runs, shut it off. Either it cranks or starts and there is your answer. You messed with the bike and now does it run, right? Run says instant fast idle and kill it. Literally less than 2 seconds. Do I know it runs? I burn my finger on each header answers that.

Kaw permits their watercraft engines to run 30 seconds without water if a quick varification check needs to be made.

1. Fuel = It started instantly carb or injector says all passages cleared.
2. Spark = It has a crank sensor so it started instantly.
3. Compression = Or the head gasket/rings/valves would have kept it cranking.

Make sense?

Very simple. Walk up to the bike, turn the key on and start it. As soon as it runs, shut it off.

You remember that thread not long ago where the guy started his bike without coolant in it? You mentioned that the water pump needs coolant in it to keep it lubricated while it runs. I planned to fill the radiator with distilled water to flush the system before I put the fresh coolant in. But if perchance, she no start, she will freeze in s day or two when the temps drop. So I thought I better put coolant in there just in case the engine doesn't start. If it's ok to start the bike for just a second with nothing in the cooling system, I can then confidently fill it up with distilled water and flush then add the coolant. I won't have to throw out the first batch of coolant so I can flush only to fill it back up with a second batch of coolant.

There's a high of 42 tomorrow. Good starting weather. Maybe I'll run down to Walgreen's tonight to get a heating pad to use as a block warmer.

Fuck that. You gotta be stupid the remaining 29 seconds.

Thanks Hub. I can't wait to hear the 14 idle again.

* Last updated by: Rook on 11/21/2014 @ 7:25 PM *

Actually Rook...why ARE you wanting to flush the system?Because it sat without coolant in there?(if it did).The indication of coolant needing to be replaced(not a system flush) is the wool tufts floating in the reservoir.Otherwise...the flushing and all is well....pointless.You drained the coolant to remove the hoses.The residue coolant remained.Inside the motor...inside the radiator....protecting the metal.I know it was suggested adding a chemically reactive agent in there.To speed things up and all.And riding the bike with that in there.I see the 'reason' behind it...but do you want to actually be doing TWO flushes...and dealing with a hot ass engine..removing the cap...all that?When(IMO) all you need to do is replace your coolant with new...simple drain and refill operation.

This isn't some 70's or 80's radiator OR engine internal surfaces deal.Unless it sat for a LONG time...then maybe...scale MIGHT be present...but you running your bike with approved coolant for how long now?There isn't gonna be any scale in there.I personally wouldn't go with adding anything that 'might' degrade the factory surfaces of the system.You cause a weak spot in there...NOW you've got future problems awaiting.No amount of flushes or anything else will correct damage to the metal(aluminum)surfaces once harmed.I mean...that's just my view of it...the method(s)spoken of here.I sure don't want to piss anyone off...I say my opinions with total respect for other's views.And I'm NOT saying they're wrong either...they aren't...but you have to live with your bike....and repair it if something happens.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 11/21/2014 @ 9:28 PM *