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Thread: Rear spring from H2?

Created on: 03/13/20 08:48 PM

Replies: 33

ginccs


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Location: Krakow Poland

Joined: 02/27/20

Posts: 24

Rear spring from H2?
03/13/20 8:48 PM

I wanted to apply a spring with hydraulic adjustment from H2 to the rear shock absorber.
The H2 spring wire has 0.4646in (11.8mm) is thinner than ZX14 by 0.02756in (0.7mm).
My question is: Can I overcome this difference by adjusting the spring tension? Will the bike get softer?
Thanks for the help



I am from Poland and my English may be poor - sorry

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 12086

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/13/20 11:02 PM

Have you tried the compression/rebound screws? Adjusted the spring collars?
Soft: is compression and that's where a harsh ride on a bad road can soften that compressing occurrence. I want to screw out at least two clicks soft to feel a difference.

Rebound: is when the soft compression setting has the tire up under the back fender, you feel this bang of your butt into the seat; you'll know the rebound was too slow getting back to the ground.

Spring: is going to have the rings spin up and unload the spring's preload. Then mark the ring's slots with two types of magic marker colors, or nail polish, use punch marks; placed at four points, compass style. With wheel off ground, the shock is fully extended, spin up the lock collars so the spring floats up and down. Spin the adjust ring so you take out the up and down of the spring, or spin till it stops. If the spring won't move but the adjust ring does, use that spring as your static mark and spin the ring till it lines up with the first painted mark on the ring. Write down all your settings.

Work backwards so look at the spring setting first. Did you go to this setting and find it's still too hard a ride?
Rebound stops the pogo sticking so did you try the settings in the middle, or run them in; to slow down the pogo effect?
Compression is where it hurts the butt. I find the center clicks and count in or out from there.

Where you usually take your routine road to work, know all the bumps to avoid steer wise, and stand up for the here it comes. And you'd think the spring is for weight and it might be just as harsh a ride once all that time and money wasted is man adapts where the wallet can't.



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ginccs


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Location: Krakow Poland

Joined: 02/27/20

Posts: 24

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/14/20 4:43 AM

Thanks Hub for the lecture.
But I'm not asking "how to regulate?", I am asking if it will be possible to adjust?
I have good settings, I like them.
However, the problem arises when I take a passenger. The bike becomes soft like a "couch", and the front light shines too high. To get rid of the problem, I wanted to modify the rear suspension for remote spring tension from the H2 model.
A complete shock absorber with a spring does not fit to my bike (it is shorter and has a different angle of gas cylinder. I wanted to use only the remote spring adjustment from the H2 model, but it is long and won't fit with the original spring. To succeed, I need to translate the remote adjustment with the spring from H2 to the original shock absorber. To do this, I have to irrevocably modify the original shock absorber - I need to remove some of the spring pre-adjustment thread. The original spring is slightly thicker o 0.02756in.

Hence my question: Will I be able to compensate for the difference between spring thicknesses by means of pre-adjustment?

Ohlins has this regulation, but it's very expensive. The one used with H2 $80



I am from Poland and my English may be poor - sorry

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Hub


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RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/14/20 7:52 AM

Look at it this way... The h2 spring is lighter. Lighter means not as strong as the 14's thicker spring. You'll sag even worse. Load the 14's spring to compensate for the headlight aim. When riding solo, loosen the spring tension. Short of buying an expensive replacement with the right spring when ordering, I don't know what else to say but run the clicks and ring adjustments.



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BIGO70


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Joined: 09/19/19

Posts: 187

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/14/20 8:26 AM

You can purchase a new spring (sprung for your weight and riding style)for the OEM shock.

Costs around $130.

https://racetech.com/ProductSearch/12/Kawasaki/ZX-14%20Ninja/2012-13

OR

You can have the rear OEM resprung AND revalved for $350-$400

https://traxxion.com/product/oem-shock-revalve-and-respring/

However, if you are ALSO wanting a remote preload adjuster you are going to have to go with an expensive aftermarket as was stated earlier.

However, you are located in Poland so I have no idea as to what it might cost to ship your OEM shock to the US for the revalve and respring.

Your best bet (and probably most economical) would be to get a stiffer spring shipped to you.

At least you now have a couple of options for your OEM shock.

Good luck.

BTW

I have used both companies with good results.

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Hub


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RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/14/20 12:02 PM

For the headlight to aim high, are we exceeding the vehicle weight rating per Bigos times two?


* Last updated by: Hub on 3/14/2020 @ 12:02 PM *



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ginccs


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Location: Krakow Poland

Joined: 02/27/20

Posts: 24

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/14/20 4:36 PM

Thanks guys for the hints, but I asked about something other. I don't want to repair or regenerate anything. My bike is new, has a mileage of 5000mil / 8000km - I drove all these miles in person. My project: Modify the rear suspension (not fix it) using parts from the H2 model.
I understand that the H2 spring is softer and for this reason, before modifying the OEM shocker, I wanted to ask: Can this difference be compensated by the spring tension adjustment?
Is the 0.02756in difference in spring wire thickness a big?
I know that it would be best to check the springs characteristics and compare. But in Poland everyone is at the stage of "exchange for new". They do not fix or modify anything. It's hard to find a workshop to check it. In Kawasaki Polska, no one will provide such information either, because they do not know.
I will try to ask ohlins about the TTX39 spring data - This spring would fit, but I don't know if they will give the dimensions.



I am from Poland and my English may be poor - sorry

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HanksZX



Location: Augusta NJ

Joined: 09/15/12

Posts: 231

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/14/20 7:45 PM

I have an Ohlins TTX39 on my bike with the standard spring. I can find the number for you.
The interesting thing is I also have the next spring stiffer from the standard spring loose and can measure it for you as well as provide the number from that spring. Let me know if this will help you.
Hank



2012 ZX-14r
2000 Suzuki Bandit Intercooled Turbo, 287HP, 182 lbs tq...sold
1997 Honda Blackbird Intercooled Turbo, 255HP, 155 lbs tq...sold

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Hub


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RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/14/20 7:55 PM

175.5 ~ 191.5mm is how far you can compress the spring. You're kind of stuck running bone stock. If it's already compressed to 175.5, you are all spec'd to the max.

As far as dropping the front forks for the headlight compensation, you will see the fork legs begin to taper down for weight, where the lower clapping points will clamp air, you go raising the fork legs up the tree.



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Grn14


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Location: Montana

Joined: 02/25/09

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RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/15/20 12:57 PM

Ohlins TTX36 shock.2017 ninja H2.The 2019 zx14 has the same shock and spring.I think yer gonna need a thicker spring.


* Last updated by: Grn14 on 3/15/2020 @ 1:10 PM *

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BIGO70


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Joined: 09/19/19

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RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/15/20 4:11 PM

Ohlins TTX36 shock.2017 ninja H2.The 2019 zx14 has the same shock and spring.I think yer gonna need a thicker spring.

You sure the 2019 ZX 14 comes with an Ohlin's?

I've not seen that.

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ginccs


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Location: Krakow Poland

Joined: 02/27/20

Posts: 24

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/15/20 4:54 PM

Finally, some specifics.
Hanks,
Give me please the thickness of the wire, softer and harder spring, and the length of the spring mounted on the bike, and the length of the spring not fixed on the bike - I will have a reference point.
Write also if your TTX39 was dedicated to the ZX14 and whether it was softer than the serial OEM kawasaki. This shock absorber is partially universal and depending on the fit, it can differ in terms of spring.

Hub,
I can see numbers, but I don't know what you mean. Write to me in a simpler language.
My serial spring is compressed by 175mm - it's more or less the center of the setting.

Grn,
H2 has TTX36 - TTXGP and ZX14 has TTX39. I do not know if they differ in spring and damping, but they certainly differ in the arrangement of the gas cylinder and the length. The H2 shock doesn't physically fit the ZX14 - hence my post.
But if Ohlins puts the same guts in both shock absorbers, then in theory it should be possible to tune the spring from H2 to ZX14 - right?



I am from Poland and my English may be poor - sorry

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Hub


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Posts: 12086

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/15/20 6:18 PM

If you had the spring alone sitting on the floor, it's 191mm in the static setting. Spin the locking rings off the spring and that tells you the same number. Book says this is not a rebuildable shock. In the manual it only shows numbers for free length and compressed length. Under 191 in the static is out of spec. Where you stop compressing at 175mm in compressed length. Then they say to take a drill and remove the cup cover so you can check the pressure being no more than 156 psi.

Paraphrase out of the manual: The standard adjusting nut setting for an average rider weighing 68k (150 lb) with no passenger and accessories is 175.5mm (6.9 in.) spring length.

Bigos settings can wink-wink, compress till the rings strip.



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cruderudy


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Location: RPV

Joined: 08/15/12

Posts: 1745

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/15/20 6:19 PM

Im just a simple guy and slow at times. But, if I was gonna put an adjustable rear spring/shock on the BBW I would put one on that was designed for it and my ass mass. Not just one from a different bike H2 or not. If someone gave me H2 parts guess I would look into the details to see if it would work.

try suspension experts like Racetech https://www.racetech.com/ they have good online spring rate and comp/damping calculators,




Perfectly Set up '06 dead and gone
New BBW '14 14R

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Hub


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RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/15/20 6:44 PM

I just went out to look at how much thread that is left to compress past spec. Just keep compressing the spring for two riders. Solo you'll have a hard ride or figure out two settings at the clickers and leave the over compressed spring alone. You are just compensating for night riding, right?



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HanksZX



Location: Augusta NJ

Joined: 09/15/12

Posts: 231

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/15/20 6:53 PM

ginccs, I will get the specs that you asked for tomorrow.
Hank



2012 ZX-14r
2000 Suzuki Bandit Intercooled Turbo, 287HP, 182 lbs tq...sold
1997 Honda Blackbird Intercooled Turbo, 255HP, 155 lbs tq...sold

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ginccs


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Location: Krakow Poland

Joined: 02/27/20

Posts: 24

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/15/20 7:42 PM

Hub,
So the length of the spring removed from the 191mm shock absorber, the compressed spring in the 175mm shock absorber and the load of 9,8kg/1mm = 156psi
Applies to OEM serial spring ZX14 - Yes?
Did I understand correctly?
If so, is there such data for H2 in this "smart" book?
Xkg/mm - this is what i am looking for

Yes, I know how to set the spring to ride with a passenger, but I have to do it with the tools.
I wanted to have easy remote adjustment.
Hence my project.


* Last updated by: ginccs on 3/15/2020 @ 8:11 PM *



I am from Poland and my English may be poor - sorry

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BIGO70


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Joined: 09/19/19

Posts: 187

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/15/20 8:09 PM

Hub

Bigos settings can wink-wink, compress till the rings strip.

?????????? You lost me on that one??????????

Or is that some kind of reference to my screen name?

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ginccs


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Location: Krakow Poland

Joined: 02/27/20

Posts: 24

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/15/20 8:21 PM

try suspension experts like Racetech https://www.racetech.com/ they have good online spring rate and comp/damping calculators,

H2 is not there
ZX14 and ZX10 - they have the same spring deflection - is it possible?

https://www.ninjah2.org/forum/ninja-h2-general-discussion/20266-new-shock-installed-4.html
Here I found that man founded a stronger spring for H2 (120kg / mm) than my factory ZX14.


* Last updated by: ginccs on 3/15/2020 @ 8:32 PM *



I am from Poland and my English may be poor - sorry

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HanksZX



Location: Augusta NJ

Joined: 09/15/12

Posts: 231

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/17/20 12:24 PM

Ginccs, my Ohlins was not on a factory equipped bike but was ordered direct from Ohlins USA.
It is a TTX with the hydraulic ride height adjuster.
I have both the standard spring and the next firmer one.
Currently, the firmer spring is loose and is numbered 1092-49/130.
Free length is 171mm, od IS 82mm, id is 57mm and wire diameter is 12.68mm.
The lighter spring is mounted and leaves no room for me to measure.
From the original manual I found some numbers and will pass them on, hoping they help.
1092-41/
57/170/115
15N/mm

Hyperpro manufacturers true progressive wound springs and may be an option for you if you vary your loading.
They are based in Netherlands and offer an excellent line of products.
I have used them on a number of my bikes and they are a less expensive alternative to aftermarket shocks, revalving forks, etc.
Good luck with whatever you decide.
Hank



2012 ZX-14r
2000 Suzuki Bandit Intercooled Turbo, 287HP, 182 lbs tq...sold
1997 Honda Blackbird Intercooled Turbo, 255HP, 155 lbs tq...sold

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 12086

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/17/20 1:21 PM

So the length of the spring removed from the 191mm shock absorber

No shock, but the free length of the spring is 191mm.

the compressed spring in the 175mm shock absorber

Yes, if you compress the spring down to 175mm you just found the compression [working] length. Thus 175.5 ~ 191.5 hard to soft settings.

and the load of 9,8kg/1mm = 156psi Applies to OEM serial spring ZX14 - Yes?

No, this is a gas pressurized shock. This psi/kg is to see if there is a leak.

Smart book is only 14 specific. If someone has a shop manual for the h2, it might show the same thing. No spring rate numbers or coil diameters. Just 'blueprint' numbers that have to be within range or replace the part being out of spec. I understand you want a remote spring adjustment, but you might wind up with the same problem headlight beam wise.


* Last updated by: Hub on 3/17/2020 @ 1:22 PM *



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Hub


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RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/17/20 1:37 PM

?????????? You lost me on that one??????????

Big, I have an obnoxious personality. So here goes about all this politically correct business is me sneaking around it. I have no proof whatsoever about the weight of the situation we are talking about. But for the headlight to aim high, see if you can put two and two together you look up the word bigos.


My signature is not there for nothing... I'm the one typing.


* Last updated by: Hub on 3/17/2020 @ 1:39 PM *



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piken


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Location: Phoenix, AZ

Joined: 08/27/15

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RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/17/20 3:00 PM

This.....

https://youtu.be/EE_YPIy2kvA


* Last updated by: piken on 3/17/2020 @ 3:01 PM *

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HanksZX



Location: Augusta NJ

Joined: 09/15/12

Posts: 231

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/17/20 5:54 PM

Piken , links not working for me...



2012 ZX-14r
2000 Suzuki Bandit Intercooled Turbo, 287HP, 182 lbs tq...sold
1997 Honda Blackbird Intercooled Turbo, 255HP, 155 lbs tq...sold

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Hub


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Posts: 12086

RE: Rear spring from H2?
03/17/20 6:02 PM

Assist:
May take a few tries...



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