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Thread: doing my valves and need a hand

Created on: 01/08/14 04:39 AM

Replies: 10

majik455


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Joined: 01/04/14

Posts: 29

doing my valves and need a hand
01/08/14 4:39 AM

ok i have done this on my 2002 zx6r and not to bad. but this seems different going by the manual. i got compression on #1 then tdc'ed it to the mark (as i would the zx6r) i checked spec on ex 1 and 2 and (in 1 and 3 i beleive as i do not have it with me here at work) I know this is right and the valves are tight like 6 on the intake tight. now to the question. to go to the 2-3 mark. do i simply keep turning the same way till i reach 2-3 stop and measure? i think that is what i do as that will automaticly put #4 in place.

so that is my question after measuring 1-4 how do i turn to 2-3 to set it to measure for clearance?

also any tips as i Will have to pull the cams? cybil was out of spec pretty bad.

Peace and Love Ron

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Danno


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Location:

Southwestern Illinois

Joined: 12/18/11

Posts: 2142

RE: doing my valves and need a hand
01/08/14 6:07 AM

Check out Rook's tutorials in the "How-Tos" section on camshaft removal and valve adjustment. Clearances must be checked with each pair of cams (lobe centers) at 180 degrees to the lifter buckets. When all have been checked and cataloged, the cams must come out to substitute shims to change clearances.


* Last updated by: Danno on 1/8/2014 @ 6:08 AM *



'07 CPB Blue; ZGST windscreen with MRA X-screen adjustable spoiler, tube bar adaptor, PC III, ATRE,BMC air filter, modified stock seat with 2nd Look cover,Scorpion Flame Ti slip-ons, Galfer rotors front and rear, braided-stainless lines, C-F 10R front fender, C-F hugger, C-F inner fairing panels, painted foreman's fins with faux C-F inlay, polished rim lips wired for heated gear and accessories, Givi V35 side bags and E41 topcase with SW-Motech qd mounts

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Hub


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Joined: 02/05/09

Posts: 13784

RE: doing my valves and need a hand
01/08/14 8:15 AM

Let me get this out of the way first so you can choose a whole bunch of ways.

1. Take a compression reading first. Why? Because you are at the point of removing the cams and you might as well keep going. If you know the compression is good, then all that is needed is a shim service. If you did not check compression, one cylinder is bad, your next step is to sync the cylinders and you now compensate a neighbor's throttle plate to balance the bad cylinder? The idle is slow to come down with a raised plate. Get it?

a. My time is shot = If I took a compression test first, I am now doing a job twice.
b. My engine has no pep = I wasted my time shimming cam, the tight valve did not change anything, I think I burned a valve and I could have caught that if I C'dup first.
c. My idle sucks I wonder why? Must be that tight valve that burned enough to lose percentage over the others.

2. To make things less complicated, pick a cylinder or think of a lawnmower engine. To find ANY compression stroke, watch the cam push the intake valve down and when it comes up, that piston is heading up. So when the in-cam is now closing the intake, this becomes the Compression Stroke. So the sequence goes:

a. I watch #1 intake cam push the valve down.
b. When the intake comes up I stop cranking.
c. I now look for 1-4 mark and set the crank to "#1 TDC Compression Stroke."

3. I have 3 types of valve adjustments that I can walk up to any bike, be it push rod, tappet screw, or shim style and apply said methods. I can say it another way and that is, I can walk up to any cylinder and adjust the in-ex valves 3 ways.

a. Flat Rate: This is how you adjust the valves with a multi-cylinder like the 14, the 600, etc. Make is simple so we work with 2 valves only. 4 cylinders times 2 valves = 8 valves to adjust. To find flat rate, we watch '#1TDComp' and set it to 1-4. We now can find 8 shims with clearance, and 8 we can't put a feeler gauge in. To adjust the other 8 shims, we simply watch the 1-4 marks, no valves to watch, but one full 360 degree turn back to 1-4, we now have #4 at TDC Compression. We just mirrored the cams to the other side. So now we spent hardly any time cranking the engine 4 times finding TDC for every cylinder.

b. Slow Rate: This is where you will find TDComp for every cylinder by following the intake's movement of that cylinder and you now adjust the group of valves one time. As long as you write down each cylinder you chased watching the intake, the fire sequence is 1-2-4-3, so the first cylinder you pick you know know which cylinder is next to be at TDComp.

c. Race Rate: This is how the race car cams are adjusted. This is better known more by the letters, 'EOIC.' (Ex + Open = Stop!) and (In + Close = Stop!) The H-D's use this method, or say push rod style. When you set the flat rate, some of these valves are at this [eoic] position. So think foot. Rock your toes like a ballet dancer and you are at the nose of the cam at full valve opening. If you could find the lowest point of your heel and you can balance off that perfect 90 degree pivot, that is where the other valve sits or why that is the race position. Make sense the racer wants to find the lowest point between gaps?

So if you are at peak opening, you want to stop right there, adjust the heel side of the other valve. So the mantra to remember race positions, the memory goes, "As-Soon-As-The-E-Opens-EYE STOP!" Next battle shim of the republic is, "As-Soon-As-I-See-The-Intake begin to Close-I Stop Turning Crank." So if I see the ex-pushrod just begin to open, I know I am at the heel of the intake cam. I now adjust my intake's push rod on my lawnmower... We make it easy.

4. Cam Timing: As far as I can tell, the in-line sequence has yet to be changed so that means to set the cam timing, #1TDComp is where the cam lobes are lined up at the 1-4 mark. Something to take into consideration is tooth to chain wear. And that goes something like this.

a. I want to keep the same wear pattern as mentioned so I mark the link and cam tooth. This keeps the engine quiet as if never tampered with so the pattern, nor is it making new noise bedding in new high spots and the like.

b. The first reason I mark the (1)chain to crank tooth, (2)cam tooth to chain link and (3) the triangle at the other cam tooth to link, is to make sure all 3 points line up again, if say the chain drops off the crank.

c. The second reason is how fast you can roll the cams back into position without having a tooth off or the chain is taught because of that one off link you are struggling with. Line up your magic marker marks, fingernail polish, whatever, then roll the cam in the line bore. Makes for fast alignment and no mistakes.



Tormenting the motorcycling community one post at a time

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KoflaOlivieri



Location:

Philadelphia, PA

Joined: 02/17/12

Posts: 1805

RE: doing my valves and need a hand
01/08/14 4:37 PM

Check out Rook's tutorials in the "How-Tos" section on camshaft removal and valve adjustment.


Valve clearance and adjustment...

Kofla


2010 ZX-14 MotoVlog

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20814

RE: doing my valves and need a hand
01/08/14 11:08 PM

hahaha good thing I write these things cuz I can't remember exactly what to tell ya.... I want to say turn the crank 360 degrees but you really better check.

wish I was less busy on other stuff. I need to check mine again. I'd be of more help.



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20814

RE: doing my valves and need a hand
01/08/14 11:19 PM

yes i remebered correctly:

7. When all of the clearances with cylinder #1 at TDC have been measured and recorded, turn the timing rotor 360 degrees (see Crankshaft Sensor, steps 3-4) so that cylinder #4 will now be at TDC of the end of the compression stroke.

also see DIAGRAM 1 valve clearances to measure with Cylinder #1 at TDCCS
I measured ALL of the clearances on Cylinder #1,
the exhaust on cylinder 2,
the intake on cylinder 3,
NONE on cylinder4

Turn crank clockwise(sitting on right side of bike turning at timing rotor)360 degrees to position the engine at TDC end of compression stroke for cylinder #4. Now measure all the remaining clearances.

cylinder 1 is far left cylinder (clutch lever side).

cylinder 4 is on the far right(brake lever).


* Last updated by: Rook on 1/8/2014 @ 11:25 PM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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majik455


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Joined: 01/04/14

Posts: 29

RE: doing my valves and need a hand
01/10/14 5:43 AM

i realized my silly mistake :-( i was good on #1 tdc but setting number four just was not right but i was using the 2-3 setting as i figured it would just be the one to use as i had already used 1-4 LOL so after reading rooks how to and lookinf at where the cams are suppose to be and the 360 thing it hit me and i felt a fool. sorry guy but they where all checked correctly now and man cybil was out. i "think" the 09 engine was dropped in and not checked when the 07 blew the second time. i do not blame him the money dumped in cybil at that point was crazy. bottom end then dropped #2 valve. I wish i knew who sold him this engine so i could get some info on it (mileage, service,etc). clearance was was tight except #1 exhaust and that was .21mm the worst was .005 intakes but total all but 1 was out of spec. i got them back right now and back tightened to 104 in lbs and called it a night. I had also reset and reinstalled the cam chain tensioner and turned the engine over a few times and the engine came back to the timing marks for #1 tdc fso i feel it is back set right and not one tooth off which is always my fear.

Peace and Love Ron

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tooncinator


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Location:

Colorado Springs, CO

Joined: 06/07/11

Posts: 273

RE: doing my valves and need a hand
01/10/14 1:43 PM

So she is really out of spec, how many miles has it been since the last check? Just curious.

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majik455


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Joined: 01/04/14

Posts: 29

RE: doing my valves and need a hand
01/11/14 7:37 AM

as i sais i do not know. this was forum member heathun bike i bought it in dec. and as you may or may not know he had engine issues. bottom end first then a valve dropped. after that he asked around and found someone here and purchased a motor from there where it was rearended (this is what i was told when i purchased the bike, it was a 09 engine) he had it installed but I think it was a direct drop in so i do not know the history of the motor but would like to if anyone knows miles etc. I should have cybil back running this weekend. I ran out of shims and had to go purchase more from livinggood motorsports up the street from me.

Peace and Love Ron

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majik455


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Joined: 01/04/14

Posts: 29

RE: doing my valves and need a hand
01/11/14 6:36 PM

well got her back together today and she is good to go, no oil leaks, i did the pair delete while i was in there. new plugs, and freash oil and filter. I did a k@n filter a week before so good there. ill see if the mpg goes up as i drive her this week to work but she "feels" strongs if that is possiable :-)

Peace and Love Ron

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Rook


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Joined: 03/28/09

Posts: 20814

RE: doing my valves and need a hand
01/11/14 10:55 PM

You have Heathuns bike? Ah have not heard from that guy in ages. He was most helpful. Even spoke to me on the phone one time. He's a stand up guy so I would rest assured that he has disclosed all oinfo about the bike. I DO recall that he had the motor replaced after hearing some noises that made him suspect a rod bearing was ready to go...and that was in fact what the problem was. There was a thread about this a couple years back.


* Last updated by: Rook on 1/11/2014 @ 10:55 PM *



08 MIDNIGHT SAPPHIRE BLUE ZX-14 Now Deceased, will be resurected 2024 ZX-14R bran friggin NEW!

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