Ok... lets try this 1 again please, without the 2 pages of non-sense...

I have actually heard the EXACT same noise on my bike as well, other than a K&N filter, engine wise everything is stock, started hearing the noise over a year ago (maybe 2), I adjusted the valves that winter and they were not far out of spec (1 shim size away). As with BLUETHUNDER's bike, the noise "goes away" at higher RPM, but I suspect the exhaust and other engine noises as well as the ticking becoming a constant noise masks the noise itself.

To me it sounds a lot like excessive valve clearence but as I said earlier, I checked, set, checked and rechecked my valves but the noise persisted.

Previously Posted by: BLUETHUNDER

TICKING NOISE
05/15/12 8:33 PM

I have a 2006 zx14 with only 4000 miles on it, and it has a ticking sound when warm. It is not as noticable when its cold. I am not sure if it is rod knock, piston slap, or bad valves. I am pretty sure it is not the injectors or the cam timing chain tensioner. Can someone listen and give me an idea, if this engine is about to grenade or what.....

Thanks

http://youtu.be/0Fvq12SXXiY

I would assume you heard this over a year ago, that gasket would have burned out. There are a lot of ticks and again, a tick is either constant or comes and goes.

Constant:

1. Valve lash ~ This is tight, bad cam face to shim bucket is a lot of clearance like floating buckets, the shims would fall out from excessive wear.
2. The injectors turning on and off. A year's time, what kind of mileage we talking? I'm with you on the pages. Got any data like, year, mileage, etc. The more you mess with the bike, the more noises. Any tampering with the bike? Bring that too. You have a year ago mod going? Now something crops up? I'm clueless until you fill in the blanks.
3. PAIR ~ Those reeds are flapping. Are we hearing noise on start up, when cold, when warm? Fill in the details. Narrow it down.
4. Piston slap ~ Tick is, no matter how well the valves are adjusted, you still have a ticking noise. That means, you hurt the pistons in a way? Slap is the skirt bottom. Slap is the change of direction in a distinct tick like an engine needing a valve adjustment. Is that a constant tick on start up or shut down? Notice upon shutdown of THUNDER's engine, I hear no tick. I cleared those pistons for slap or ticking type noises.
5. I know I set my valve lash and I want to see your feeler gauges kind of how much clearance did you close the cover on? If loose is quiet, then tight ticks. That means, no matter the valve lifter arm or shim, you run the wider clearance, she is quiet as a mouse. Where did you land all your shims? More numbers, please. Keep the data coming.
6. Did you time the chains to cams on the shim change? Now you have a swing around is a new wear pattern that link comes over that one ticking noise. So, did it happen over a year ago you changed shims, or was it before the cams removed? Now with the cams installed on 'any old link,' not timed like the rear chain too, is now another chain that has a variable to make a new noise. So is that tick after the shim change?

Comes and goes Tick:

1. Valve lash ~ You know that every time a cylinder fires, it is a constant. That "valve lash can be tight" [I find mostly] they have this; comes and goes kind of tick. So, do we have a comes and goes at the top end? Is that tick more in the valve train? You set the valves where? You used who's shims? Aftermarkets or OEM?
2. PAIR ~ That guy plays with a lot of lift situations and that unit can throw extra ticks. It depends on loads and all that. Even though it may run constant, I may throw this in for the lift situation and now, do you hear the tick on lift? On throttle apply? Sustained riding steady?
3. ? ~ Anyone else have a clue on a come and go situation?

I have the same, it seems to be worse once it warms up and seems to be fairly strong around 3500 rmps

Hey Nightmare, does your Zx make the noise under load or just when say coasting around part throttle. Mine makes a slight ticking as well,( coasting) tightened header bolts, same thing. Mine will do it from 2500 to 3300 ish under light load, as soon as you accelerate a little it does away, and after 3500 I can't here it at all under load. My oil is synthetic and always clean. I am wondering now about the TOS sensor. I am in Calgary BTW.
DANO

Im with you Hub... hard to say without some of the blanks filled in.

* Last updated by: hagrid on 5/22/2012 @ 3:30 PM *

When it comes to machines with thousands of moving parts, step one would be to pinpoint where the noise is coming from. That will put you a step closer to discovering what's causing it. If your throttle bodies are out-of-synch, the individual cylinders will tend to 'fight'each other instead of operating together smoothly, and then anything connected to them that has a clearance can slap from one end of the clearance to the other causing mechanical noise. The moral of this tale is to make sure everything is optimized and in tune and the noise may then go away on it's own. If not, you can then set about pinpointing where it's coming from. It may turn out to be something you can't do anything about but learn to tolerate.

Dano, if this weather ever gets better we've gotta get together and head out for a ride into the mountains! if you want i'll PM you my cell.

Its been raining this week so I haven't taken her out for a ride to check if it makes the same noise under load, I ride with ear plugs so usually I only hear it when its idling in neutral. I also try to avoid lots of throttle under 3k RPM so I don't lug the engine.

My baby is a 2008, with apx 25,000km on the odometer, only engine related mods are the K&N air filter (which has been properly oiled, cleaned and installed with the sealant grease). I have not taken the headers off and although I don't have the post adjustment valve clearences anymore (can't find them) I know all valves were within spec when I finished. I zip tied the chain to the cam sprockets when i removed the cams and tried to make sure there was tention on the chain so it wouldn't skip a tooth on the crank.

The only way I could figure out how to double check the cam timing after the adjustment was to set it at TDC and check the valve clearence to make sure I had max clearence and then rotate the engine to check the other valves (i'd love to know if there's a better way that can use cam markings or something to more accurately verify this).

I had heard the sound before and after the valve adjustment, I also tried adjusting the throttle bodies at the same time (OMG is that a nightmare to do) but I couldn't get them adjusted any more then they already were. Also at that point I checked and adjusted the spark plugs (the hell I'm replacing $25/each plugs at 10k as per Kawa!). Oil (synthetic of course) and filter changed regularly and before she hibernates as well as the chain is lubed/cleaned every 500km/1000km and adjusted as needed.

As far as I can tell (see the youtube video below of the bike starting, running until warm and then shutting off) the ticking is only heard when the engine warms up (at least I couldn't hear it when it was first started). The noise is constant and changes speed with the engine and sounds like its coming from the front of the engine).

Although to me it sounds like the cam lobs hitting the valve buckets with excessive clearence, I don't think its a thrown shim as the noise was presistant before the adjustment and no shims were missing. As far as I can remember the noise came on fairly gradually and as it got louder it prompted me to do the adjustment.

I've pretty much written the noise off as just an engine noise and wasn't very worried about it but saw Bluethunder's post so wanted to chime in.

Your text to link here...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0Bo2wRu47kw

mmmmmmmmmmmmmm interesting. PM me your cell, Ive got another bud with a Zx and two others that ride Busa's, one might be a gal

My 07' at around 600 miles started a faint knock, you would only hear it when it was warm and when riding at road speed was non existent till you started coming to a stop then as the rpm's dropped it would come at around 3000 to 3500.

I took it to the dealer in 07' he couldn't isolate it and called Kawi, of course they said that was normal. Fast forward to 25,000 miles and out of warranty and the #3 rod bearing let go.

If this is what you may suspect go ahead and break into the bottom end and save yourself the cost of a new crank.

Bit of an update, the ticking noise is present under load as well as idling. I picked up a stethoscope and since this was my first time using one, the best I can tell you is its loudest on the top left part of the engine and my personal guess is a bad exhaust valve on either the #1 or #2 cylinder.

You mean a tight valve.

Tight = Ticking sound.

You assume bad exhaust, go out and buy a compression tester now. Stop guessing or you'll tear it down for a bad valve when it needed a shim change back to the lose side.

Quiet top end = Wider shim gap.

A tight valve will make less noise than a loose one, at least up to the point when the valve begins to not seat. At that point, the ignition (power) stroke will begin firing out the pipe and the pipe will glow cherry red. Valves (especially exhausts) tend to get tighter over time as the valve head hammers the seat and clearance disappears. If the valve begins to stick in the guide from excess heart galling, it will make a truckload of noise as the cam beats down on the valve cap as the huge clearance gap allows. Check the valve clearances and correct if needed. If it still makes a ticking noise, it's probably something else.

A tight valve will make less noise than a loose one

If it still makes a ticking noise, it's probably something else.

So yes, I agree there is a quiet time when it keeps the valve open or is super tight there is no clearance, therefore no tick.

Disagree. I work with tiny engines. Little scooters, generators, single cylinder engines. Most times I have found a tick noise with a tight valve. An adjustment quiets the noise.

If there's zero clearance and the cam is in constant contact with the lifter/follower/bucket, what makes the noise? If the small engines you are working with have weak valve springs and the couple thousandths extra lift and cam ramp acceleration slings the valve open past it's normal lift (float) or into contact with the piston head, THAT could make a noise. But that would be most pronounced at higher rpm, not at idle, where most of the ticking complaints are heard.

Danno?

This is going way back. Guy came in for a tuneup. Long story short. I would curl my feeler gauges, [thinking] I had the proper clearance. Come to find out the bike was ticking like mad. I had to pop off the H cover one more time, turn the adjust out, not in... Was my observation.

Following up on a tick... I then adjusted the valves on a small engine. I could not remove the tick. I then tore the top end down. I found a burnt piston. It ran, but with less clearance being the aluminum was sticking on the cylinder wall. With the material off the piston, I discovered another sound in an engine.

These are my own experiences to a ticking scenario. The exhaust is a constant. Piston is a constant. Valve last is a constant. That is how I work my ticking:

1. Exhaust? No... Exhaust cleared (alleged).
2. Valves? Now Pending.
3. Piston? If lash does not clear, piston is next.

The 3amigos in a tick scenario [as an example(s)] chasing tick.
Could there be more ticks? Pending now. I have no clue but to lay out the steps I know well.

Nightmare, your bike is sounding like my buddies, # 2 plug fouled. ticking etc. PM me if you want to come by and take a listen.
Dano

Anecdotal evidence is fine, but for something to make a sound, there has to be two things that are apart coming into contact or something taking up a clearance or tolerance causing contact where there was none. Hold your hands together and try to make a clapping sound. You can't do it without separating them first. The sound of thunder is merely the sound of the air coming back together after being separated by a lightening bolt.

* Last updated by: Danno on 6/12/2012 @ 6:00 AM *

[quote]Nightmare, your bike is sounding like my buddies, # 2 plug fouled. ticking etc.[quote] Good call.

That spark jump; I wonder if that code could pickup that outside tick to ground? That means the backup code to one of the stick coils would pop up on the screen. I don't know? I just thinking spark-code = Plug?

Two things that are apart coming into contact or something taking up a clearance or tolerance causing contact where there was none. Hold your hands together and try to make a clapping sound. You can't do it without separating them first.

1. Hand rub = Both wear.
2. Hand hold = No sound.

I am on the raggedge of no compression. I do have compression. That valve coming back hitting the seat, it has to tap the ramp somehow. True, I doubt you could hear it. That does make sense. But, that ramp bounce to the valve, there is this ramp tap of the cam lobe to the tappet face, somewhere around that area is where I imagine it comes from.

I'm just a parts changer, not a tuner. So adjustment procedure wise, I find they somehow have a ticking sound the closer the gap. I would imagine there are more tight valves found than loose valves with shims. That is where I think the tick might be if she is constant, no exhaust tick found.

But, I do like that spark variable. What a waste to change a round of plugs just to find out. Hey, you call it. I don't know?

Have you ride another zx14 and established yours is louder , and under load or high rpm the valve lash lessens therefore getting quieter , these bikes have valve lash and they make noise at idle and low rpm

"I'm just a parts changer, not a tuner.Hey, you call it. I don't know?" "no exhaust tick found" .

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/12/2012 @ 12:28 PM *

Thanks for the input guys!

DANOZX14, I got your PM with your cell, I'll fire you off a text if we ever get some decent weather on the weekend, I desperately need new buns on my baby, hoping to have them swapped out by this weekend. I've never heard of a fouled spark plug causing a noise but firstly that's a helluva lot cheaper then replacing/repairing valves AND I did not replace my plugs during my last major service so maybe they need to be replaced (boy will I be eating some words if this fixes the problem). I've got a couple of weeks off coming up and I'll replace the plugs and let you know.

Hub, I have a compression tester, when I goto replace the spark plugs I'll try to do a reading, I can only imagine how much of a PIA it is going to be to try and thread the tester on while keeping the engine warm with the massive amount of junk in the way. :)

injfuel, no I have not heard another bike in person to compare this to, I do know it was quieter as the noise prompted me to get my rear in gear the winter before last to check/adjust the valves.

And not to start an arguement, but IMO, Hub is correct on some engines and Danno is correct on others regarding valve clearences, it depends on how the valves are actuated. Since the ZX14's engine has overhead cams, the cam lobes ultimately push the valves down, if there was excessive clearence, at maximum lift the valve would be open less then maximum and potentially when the valve is closed the cam lobe could come out of contact from the bucket. When the lobe swings around it would come into contact with the bucket making noise.

If the clearence were very tight (zero clearence specifically), the valves would open more then designed, potentially never close (causing burned valves, possibly a collision with the pistons and the ability to cause a grown man to cry) but the cams would never lose contact with the buckets. Since in this example, the valves never fully close, they don't make contact with the valve seats and would result in no noise.

Hub, I have a compression tester, when I goto replace the spark plugs I'll try to do a reading, I can only imagine how much of a PIA it is going to be to try and thread the tester on while keeping the engine warm with the massive amount of junk in the way.

The trick with that spark tick is a water spray mist to it. Better in the dark to see the spark jump. If that tick is outside it sure is not inside. That says if the spark can jump in the mist you found a poor stick or wire, connector, etc.

And yes, no argument here. Totally agree on the valve theory. And yes again, the trick is to get the hose down and hope you do not cross thread that tiny hole. That means both hands. One to keep the hose straight initially. The other is to spin the hose down. You'll see what I mean.

"What is the sound of one hand clapping, Grasshopper?"

Tick, tick, tick

I never thought I'd live long enough to be able to answer that Zen koan.

The Zen master has spoken...."I just thinking spark-code = Plug?"... GEEE ZUZZZZ.

"and hope you do not cross thread that tiny hole". Maybe YOU hope you won't....these other guys....they KNOW they won't.BIG DIFFERENCE.

Danno said..."If there's zero clearance and the cam is in constant contact with the lifter/follower/bucket, what makes the noise? If the small engines you are working with have weak valve springs and the couple thousandths extra lift and cam ramp acceleration slings the valve open past it's normal lift (float) or into contact with the piston head, THAT could make a noise. But that would be most pronounced at higher rpm, not at idle, where most of the ticking complaints are heard".....here's a guy who KNOWS what he's talking about.Clear....easily understood....no smoke and mirrors.I think we have a NEW sheriff in town.... I nominate DANNO for 'tech topic advisor'....anyone else?Let's DO this...his own section...."technical answers made easy...by the man...DANNO".....With a fellow compadre...HAGRID.This would be SWEEEET!I say....get er done BG.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 6/13/2012 @ 12:27 AM *