Hub, I have a piggy and a custom map but my secondary flys are still installed. My question is should I remove them and will I need to re check my air fuel ratio after they are removed. The bike already runs very giood but all I hear is how much faster the bike is without them. Lay it on me man.

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Lay it on me man.

Lets walk a simple concept and take the mystery out of the change; you removing the subthrottle plates. All we did was change the speed of the same event. Same as saying to cool the room faster, you open the window wider and let more air come in, to move things along > Cooling faster.

So if we think like that, we would think that the map should work the same, being able to keep up electrically with the matching air speed. We could probably show an air wave scale, where the air wave would act different in move, well, meaning, simply moving faster. But we still close on the same dime is that 14.7 psi. We just got there faster, made no hp, just brought that air wave to respond faster down low is that cause you hear about.

That is the effect you will feel. Lay it on you is how I am not a physicist to explain how nature runs through a perforated screen that upsets that air flow from smoothing out. If you already have not, carefully clean said air box area, remove the mesh screen from the back of the air cleaner element. This is a speed factor event that adds to the speed, you, also removing flies. That wind will slow down going through the holes. Simple enough, remove the guard and there you are playing, 'window opening more' is that event.

That increase in air speed is now twofold. The air slowing over the fly is 1. The air screen is 2. Will the pig recognize it? If that grid was well tuned it would is my guess. Now we are going to have to lay our plumber cleavage over the seat to find out if we need a grid move, we feel a stumble someplace?

If you caught my PIP video, with just the sound alone of the bike's engine note, you cannot hear the bike stumble, as if there is a loss of drive-ability, we remove screen/plates/run no pig. Then, go to the AFR video, see if you find the bike runs lean, I throw cable at it.

I am pretty much on the WOT as much as possible. Mule says no pig needed, even with the cheater 4-in-1, which helps a little > Letting out the faster air that when in. And buck20, I am dragging other eyes through this, so those thinking they need to pig up, I pile up the video and that engine note is still quiet and quick. We might, we might have a variable of a pig setting; the bike may not like. That part is on your end, which is still up in the air. Even with the pun, you would think that simple speedup breaks even, you find the map still decent enough to sit on.

Maybe I should restate that. The map may be a setting I may not like. I toggle my piggy on, she swings to that 13 dot-dot AFR and change. I feel the change and want to change right back to what the cleavage likes. I rather like the stock trim, with less wires added from that piggy. Butthat is just me.

I know you throw the 12-13 AFR number at it, she is going to spank something that comes alone better than being all in stock trim. Bottom is even stronger is stink like bull ass you know. I know there is very little change, but you still feel every slight change if you do things one thing at a time > to notice the difference. And if you did not pull the screen, you can then feel the smooth come in on top of your pig setting now. You know the smooth is running with a good map. So, that builds on top of the smooth package > Removing fly.

1. A/C = Screen Smoothing.
2. Pig = Fuel Smoothing.
3. Sub = Smoothing one more time.
4. Tre/Hack = Oopseas. Now you set the ragged edge 'hard' and there goes the smoothing of the moving, makes this move ~ Optional.

How much tune you throw at it, just builds on top of the other. I'm going to lay this much performance on the bike, we are not racing weekends, correct? We just go out on the bike, and buy the time we run an errand or ride to break for lunch, we are living in a 2,700 ~ 3,400 RPM world. We finally settle in on some road, running the speed limit, correct? The 4 mods are so low level entry for the street, you have plenty of dependability never popping off the valve cover to do any more mods than what you have now.

I think it was jj with the exhaust swaps that has that performance option he is chasing pipe cleavage. Others try a different fuel-cutter and change out to another pig-type. Now, if you have bike money to sink some change into, we can keep going. I might be your, "Joe Average," I have what everyone else starts out with and stops kind of done with the bike. I mean, you have guys [who can't leave it alone] going through parts, they swap out the OEM.

You are still making one step that is going to alter about 5 variables is what I've read. With all that said, I would still have to re-tune my pig, I make a pipe change. I would bang out the cruise-bang you see the lean swing to the rpm we cruise in. I mean, that is what you are trying to aim for > With the pipe and pig. I am so de-tuned I run without pig and she runs just assweet.

BASE [runcleavage] calls the grid move. Say, speaking about riding hard... Can you see a pimple back there? I've been chasing that boil for a weak now I'm gonna faint. Look, I'll bite down on your piggy box and you just squeeze.

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It sounds like you belive in the stock exhaust system. I guess I will remove the flys and look into the air filter mod, I hope the filter doens't fall apart without that screen in it, why the hell is it there any way.I will have to look more into the FI mapping. Oh buy the way I rairly do the speed limit!

* Last updated by: buck20 on 3/22/2010 @ 4:37 AM *

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Ok I did some reserch on fuel mapping and secondary fly removal. If you remove the flys you need to have your fuel air ratio adjusted. when they are removed on a stock bike with no PC the fuel air ratio goes to dead lean (16-1) at 3200 RPM, If you are rideing around at that RPM that could damage your engine. Since my bike is mapped with them in I will need another custom map after removal. Its my understanding that when this mod is done right the bike turns into some kind of raging monster! Like its not all ready.

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... I hope the filter doesn't fall apart without that screen in it, why the hell is it there any way.I will have to look more into the FI mapping. Oh buy the way I rarely do the speed limit!

If you look at the way the the steel screen is placed, she has no integrity, something flies through; with the screen being held on with burnt pieces of plastic melted over a hole; holding that screen in place. Sure, it will help, something flies into the ram hole at speed; we make a dead aim scenario at it. But the fiber WWWW layout has more foundation holding together, along with the rubber bond to hold the form; as if it needs that screen just to keep the holes of the ass is inn wash my hands of the ton of waste to quiet sound waves is that mouth of theirs to shut the **** UP already!
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If you remove the flys you need to have your fuel air ratio adjusted. when they are removed on a stock bike with no PC the fuel air ratio goes to dead lean (16-1) at 3200 RPM.

Show me the research you read. I have a little ass picking suggestion for that research. PPP is gonna go dick-slapping is the next step.

If you are riding around at that RPM that could damage your engine.

BUSShit! Mine should be sitting on a bench waiting for the parts I've burned the thing so lean. Bring that url(s) you read or I need to be taken away in a short bus.

Since my bike is mapped with them in I will need another custom map after removal. Its my understanding that when this mod is done right the bike turns into some kind of raging monster! Like its not all ready.

I agree! And we have yet to pull the valve cover off, I'm skidding all over the place with the front sliding on the hot tar they laid down around here. The back wheel kisses the white line and I wanted to turn around to see how much of a patch I left with the secret setup is me no have no pig in play and I still have the air cleaner in. Now I'm going to take it [the air cleaner] out and here we go again I light that tire up all over the place tell me that bike is lean and I'll eat it. I had this setup [years ago in fact]; so on the way home, the bike jumped off the same bump, me trying to get away from door slammers finding the gap in the wolf pack is a faster bike is no monster yet.

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Man this shit drives me crazy every body says something different. The person that said that about the engine damage was Brock and he was talking about a 06 bike. Now the guy here that tunes bikes for a living and has his own race team says You should only remove the flys on a race bike that is epected to operate at high RPM and the removal will only net you a couple of HP on top, But it will actualy hurt the performance on the low end because the secondary flys are there to actualy speed up the air flow at lower RPMs. He acted like I was nuts for wanting to take them out of my street bike. He realy sounded like he knew what he was talking about. I think I will stick with the engineers at Kawaski and leave them in. What pisses me off is a bunch of us on the forum cant get together out here in the desert and do some 50 to 130 roll ons and see what shit works and what shit dont. Sounds like fun to me! Bring it on HUB.

* Last updated by: buck20 on 3/22/2010 @ 4:37 PM *

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kLfwtVZVfTU

Z buck, Z bike I have, runs without pig. I'm [the mechanic mouth] is more into the dickslapissing contest with the Linears, I call them. The tuning I've done way back with the '06 14 I had, was just a continuation of what you see here. I have another WOT run of about 30 minutes of pulling over and setting up tune with the wide band second video.

Between the Leaners, Linears, Flashers, and worrollers of the world, I have to prove myself over and over I got bike that is going to ripe piss you a new asshole. I pulled over, ran a combo, it is going to tear the rear end off at low rpm, you think you have the jump on me.

I can't tell you much of this you are watching me [learn] ass I burn wheel on a white line; I went over on the ragged edge and powered away on top of the slick paint, then back on the road. You can hear I was surprised to feel that low an rpm, that high a gear I attempt a smear tactic. It is more I've been schooled on the soft apply.

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You got me man, I just came to grips with the fact that I dont have a chance against you your fuckin crazy! where do you live I'm coming over to party.

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Call me crazy, butt, I say we congregate at some Texas race track. Rent it for the day. Say, if enough members show up, all bragging rights are right there on the time slip, we slip over to 1Bad's, chow down on some of the old lady's Fly Swatter Burgers, show you my ass is as big or bigger than Bad, we run for fun down the the 1320.
We return home with fresh tires. Leave the carcass is now Bad's problem, we use his tire spoons and air compressor.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_rSz8bhO00g&feature=grec

Man this shit drives me crazy every body says something different.

Look, we need a 14 tuning clinic. Show you how you want to setup the bike. There are so many combination(s) to choose what level of tune you want. I want you to bring your best tune and we run in the rain. I'm fine we begin at 160 roll on(s), we start there in the rain.

Why are you chasing so much power when you can't use it on the street. Yes you can, but I am just saying. I'm laughing, because it drives me crazy, you [guys] never pop the valve cover thinking you got bike. 1Bad runs one simple R&D with just the header and it runs the same as if there was a big name pipe on it making the same numbers down the track. Is that what is driving you crazy?

The Flock Bros., back in the early NASTY car days, where one Flock brother would run without header. Got 10 more horse on the field and won many events. Thus the name being up there winning but at a cost. Cost him a short life breathing that, CO (carbombinoxside)-sp, inside the car.

Someone says they lose HP with the flies out? I'm wheel standing and tire skidding is you've got to be kidding me I have lost HP is Horse IS Poop!

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Thats why I'm leaving it alone, I have way more than I can use now, besides I have had to back off a little and stop doing a hundred plus to work every day the cops have pulled me over a few times and I have gotten one ticket and some warnings. If I keep this shit up it will more than likley cost me alot of money. I'm just going to keep doing track days on my GSXR in order to get my speed fix. Have you ever been to Phoenix?

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I don't know, but if Brock's has a tuner that says you will damage your engine running flies out without a PC at 3600ish rpm, I'm gonna believe Brock's over Hub.

Only because I've seen the results of Brock's efforts both in drag racing AND road racing.

All I've seen from Hub is gobbly-goop on this forum which I cannot understand 90% of the time. LOL.

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"screen"....If ya don't ride in any rain...you needn't worry about pieces of paper screen sucking down into your stacks.......HOWEVER...if you ever get caught in a downpour-and yer screen gets SOAKED-guess where that paper's goin?(assuming you've REMOVED that pesky airflow stopping piece of mesh).And especially since you'll now be gassing yer baby quite aggressively to keep the engine operating while it's getting a good dose of H20,your intake will now be sucking in HUGE gulpfuls of mist-effectively swallowing anything that just "happens" to get in the way there!

* Last updated by: blue07 on 3/25/2010 @ 5:18 PM *

We dont get much rain in phoenix, but you never know. I'm not going to mess with it anyway then I would most likley need to play with the piggie (as HUB calls it) and its set perfect now, I figure if you want to mess with the air filter get a race only one thats cleanable and be done with it.

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buck20: Have you ever been to Phoenix?

Only passing through.

buck20: in order to get my speed fix.

You never grow out of it, so forget that. Look in the mirror a lot and look way out ahead up front; For the gumball machines on top of the hood, wink-wink. Know your undercover colors, cough-cough.

P-Tear: I don't know, but if Brock's has a tuner that says you will damage your engine running flies out without a PC at 3600ish rpm, I'm gonna believe Brock's over Hub.

Why do you thin I goofall on the tech, [most of the time]!?!?

P-Tear: Only because I've seen the results of Brock's efforts both in drag racing AND road racing.

OK, I can tag that double time. If I am an old drag racer in high school collecting trophy, does that say anything about keeping the bike tuned well? Like, keep a 2-Stroke from holing a piston kind of winning ways? We transfer that to road racing anything from Kawi 750 Triples to some clapped out H-D wanna be race bike. And do I have to explain the hole shots I've made; leaving the grid is cream the cream of the crop I thought were invincible. No bike HP needed. Give me rain is show me the rider. All I lacked was entering both sports at too late an age; to do any more than WOT I have accomplished learning how to tune on my own.

All I've seen from Hub is gobbly-goop on this forum which I cannot understand 90% of the time. LOL.

Oh, and you are laughing as I type it out cause and effect I am in tears. I do not struggle to think thishit up is just happens naturally in a BAD BAD sort of way; you know 1Bad? My a.k.a. is, 2BAD. Too bad, you have to place your eyes on the type0 wipe0 off my glass is-IS watch that Wide Band dispute, "Team Brock." Did he switch sides is now selling Ivan's deal?

For me and how I look at my world of tuning and questioning each person on earth about their ability is you question my ability is the way it should be. So, I don't know how to rude the fastest production bike made is remove a rear brake assembley or not use the rear pads is come take a look is goofizz your brain scan you are telling me how to ride a bike is sort of rude of me to point out the obvious.

Obviously, you missed the engine idle of a Pee-See-Less 14. You see no [sub]backing blade used, so as to dispute, 'Brockiss Team Valve Cover Stays On' we do some damage and go tuning we run zip piggy and now see and say what the fuck.

It's like nothing has changed is one IOM runner I ghost here, we lack a wanna take on the Isle wit me? Run your bike and your road is... Take a look at that Wide Band and report the [obvious] news [I knew was a fallacy just by the way FI] is; this one quiet engine? Mile after mile of WOThe Fuck! The engine is suppose to blow up, seize an shit is, "Bull Shit Skis!" Now what does Brock half/wave to say? Hi, Brock, if you're reading this...

POOF is in the pudding and it is all on video I try to eat a piston like 1Bad? I think I have tune. I think it jumps off the ground you hammer the throttle. I think it wheelies [she receives the TUNE]. I thin it hits the paint is leaves it's own brush mark is even marking my word; you still do not believe WOT chew hear is the BAD BAD Comedy will keep coming is nothing has change since I stepped on a closed course is, "The best can be beaten."

AND NEVER FORGETIT It's Just Racing!

blue: HOWEVER...if you ever get caught in a downpour...

You get a free carbon steam clean off the domes of the pistons, head, and valves, so move the paper out of the way or the free wash is a wash.

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Hub, I want to see a picture of your bike. Someone posted a picture of a bike that they got off bikepics and said it was yours. Come on dude I want to see a current picture, this will help me get a handle on where you are comming from and dont worry I will know if its realy yours when I see it.

* Last updated by: buck20 on 3/25/2010 @ 1:28 PM *

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TEST MULE-1

this will help me get a handle on where you are coming from...

I'm coming from left field, buck20. Like, left out of the programs I need a piggy when I say I did my homework. Open Ram, no back brake assembly and the pre-Tranny-Trick where; I could not keep the front end down no matter the throttle apply. So much for lean if that HP was coming at me no matter the WOT in any gear.

Show me the lean if the momentary rpm bog was just that. A slight leave at the cruise, low rpm 27-3,200 RPM range. If you see that Wide Band running rich at 13 when I say we are at 27, then I nail it or add fuel or who knows? I smack that throttle like it's on the dyno and it has yet to let go a rod/burn piston = Lean Condition/Seize small end piston pin it gets that lean=Heat working to melt my engine?

Same lame game I am with the one minute idle @ 900 RPM and does that sound like a hurt motor to you? No piggyback fuel crack needed after 10K miles.

EVOLUTION MULE-2

No body work again. Air cans set another 45° to now 90°. Fuel injection study evolved as you see it now. This is more how to solve an electrical problem if someone says, "Hey, Hub, my cam sensor code came on and now watt?" Buy the time you went through all your special order parts buying cam sensors, your 20/20 hindsight tells you to look at other places. Especially if the sensor meets specs and you buy a new sensor, install it and the code is still there. Hey, I tried to stop them from swapping out parts, wire harness*, buying ECU's, when it was the other system tied to the cam system, [for an example*], when it was so obvious the crank sensor like I suggested in the beginning.

And then you have these guys flash their ECU's in the hard. I'm watching how they still need to use a pig to square away the smoothing or maybe set the ignition with their pig system of choice. Hard hit has HP? Soft has more? It shoots to 18:1 ratio on the lean is the soft decel. It hangs just as long at 16.5 set hard, where it is set richer at decel. So, they have no clue ["Somebody have a mapiss is mine is all smelling up the garage now"], how under or overrich most guys are running at? With this TRE stuff set here or there, things can change the tune and then where are you? Someone comes along, gives you a little road-clinic and now you have kennel cough you are choking on his well spent fumes.

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Mr Hub as much as I hate to ask because it just shows my lack of knowledge but I am lost when you start talking about using the pig.
I do not know what that means so instead of reading thread after thread and not understanding I am just gonna start asking random questions.
I am new to the fuel injection world which means I am real old school.

Thanks == Bobby

By the way I got to put 45 miles on a beemer S1000RR last night and it makes the 14 feel like the big yellow bus and almost as slow. They are two different bikes made for two different kinds of riding but damn is that beemer crazy on the street.
I felt like a teenager again with my 1st 750 triple.

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lytnin,
Guys get sick of the same questions over and over. I'm the exact opposite. Ask away. "Piggy of your choosing" means:

1. PCIII
2. PCV
3. Motty
4. BAZZAZ
5. Tfi
6. On and on with the car guys having even better piggy boxes to play with. The piggy boxes on this list, just change the fuel time the injector stays open. The more it says open, the richer the mixture. So, for racing/smoothing, you use one of the above mentioned; that all do the same thing, basically. There are other bells and whistles more for race oriented purposes like wires for spray, wires for tach and/or shift light. Stuff like that, which are for straight line racing.

So, when I say, 'piggy,' I mean the many choices of fuel enhancers, rather than pointing out a specific aftermarket unit from the above list of pigs. Ask away till you are numb asking. Once I school myself, you are fed the raw data. So, in a way, we are both learning. You may point out something you are thinking about and it never occurred to me to think of it. We both win, I figure it out, so you can understand it. This is not rocket science. It's old school tuning buy wire... Or say, it is a jet change in a funny working black box. 'Pick your "piggyback" to do it." That help out any?
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As far as that 1000, it may have a short life buy the time the Big4 strut their stuff, I'll be ready for a new, short, yellow bus.

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blue,

It's cool to make fun of me-I could give a Rat( azz-I found out what I needed to just when I needed to. Someone else along the line is gonna have this same deal eventually.

You came up with the line, "make fun of me," when I use your example finding things out that the book does not explain. Your cam to crank to ECU's self diagnosis, says to look at the sensor(s) this way, not Look at, blue struggle. You are the one thinking I am making fun of you. I can't stop the thoughts you come up with and assume I am making fun of high tech shit, I use your example.

I am using your situation to diagnosing more like; "Look at blue, school Hub." And you know how many times I will use that example someone does not follow the [YOUR] example, when I keep trying to warn, there are about 3 variables to that one code set in, 'phantom'; When the phantom cam sensor code was not the problem. So the schooling was watch how blue found out, it was the crank's tone wheel sending cam the wrong signal. And now the ECU is so stupid, it did not think anymore sophisticated than what primitive information it sends out now. Maybe you mean I'm calling the computer out and laughing about that is now I have to think up shit you thinking I am making fun of you, blue. Get it?

This is not some competition we skid and wheel stand all day long measuring dick. One more reason I use that phallic symbol you start thinking like a squid, blue. I made mention with all the combination tunes thrown at the bike that day, the best set is the same setup I had > That powered the front end up in the air, was the same tune in the pic-in-pic video of the, pop/no-pop tune out.

Same deal on the white line I moved onto. I run the same pip-in-pic tune, mentioning 'this is all she wrote' and one more surprise is to break the back end with again; a different tune, same [consistent] throttle apply. Wheelies and wheel spin > Overpower the ability to drive-ability = iNN STALL Subthrottles is the answer to 'stall' the power. You now de-tune bike, where you are not constantly rolling off the throttle to keep moving forward. You roll off the gas because the wheel will keep lifting, so you use this tune is to be left in the dust> You keep backing off for spin and sky lofting. And if I 'exaggerate a little,' it is to explain the transition between tunes not just a little, but, "a lot!"

* Last updated by: Hub on 3/25/2010 @ 8:16 PM *

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Holy shit, that bike is bad ass! Ok now I see where your comming from. Im comming over to party!

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Thank You Mr. Hub and now I understand. I just never heard it called a piggy and my 1993 lightning truck has a MSD piggy with boost retard and a new name from "The Box" to "Piggy".

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Thats short for piggy back! Hub I'm sure your bike is very fast but the other half of go is stop, Dude, put the rear brake back on that just aint right! Wow I think I'll pull half the brakes off my truck and see how it works. NOT.

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Buck what year is your bike? Hub how did you get your tank to change colors? I got to get you to the pub, stat.

By the way I got to put 45 miles on a beemer S1000RR last night and it makes the 14 feel like the big yellow bus and almost as slow. They are two different bikes made for two different kinds of riding but damn is that beemer crazy on the street.
I felt like a teenager again with my 1st 750 triple.

Who's Bike ?