believe the weight increase is actually less than 20 lbs, btw

I went back and researched the archives, '06 ZX-14 weighed 555 lbs with full fuel, the 2012 ZX-14R weighs 584 lbs with full fuel, so a 29 lb difference. The weight difference between the '08-'11 models and the 14R is less as those models gained weight after '07 also.

OK,new 14R gains 29 lbs (gassed) over the '06. I was only quoting the reported wt gain over the 2011.

No issue anyway; my point was that a hp per lb is an incredible power to wt ratio and gain over the last model for those interested in a drag strip bike to build on.

If that's the intended use.

* Last updated by: PaulAB on 12/28/2011 @ 8:08 AM *

Plus, to retain that weight, you need to rotate back to the same OEM tires. Those that do not change their own tires, find out soon enough, that when they want that higher miler rubber ride, that adds more weight to the ground swell. You feel that toss between the legs; just stand off the seat do you feel the difference.

Hold your breath because I want ABS. That hole where the battery is, she sits there with hoses, more oil to change, more, more, more!

No issue anyway; my point was that a hp per lb is an incredible power to wt ratio and gain over the last model for those interested in a drag strip bike to build on.

If that's the intended use.

Agreed, the new machine has a HP advantage, no one will argue that as I have stated many times. I think some of us are just trying to decide if it makes any sense to trade in or not, weighing the pros and cons, plusses and minuses, the old Ben Franklin close. The dyno numbers are significant but they haven't translated into a massive improvement in the performance numbers... yet. We'll see as soon as the magazines start doing their tests and the inevitable shootout against the Gen II Busa. The magic numbers that were reported by Cycle World back in '06 for the original ZX-14 were 9.68 quarter mile and 171 HP to the rear wheel. I'll wait for their impartial assesement and see if the new machine can better this performance benchmark.

BTW, I respect Rickey Gadson as a top drag racer but he is a paid spokesperson for KHI and as such, what he says is never going to be completly impartial.

Hub's bogartin the peace pipe and what he's smokin you don't want to know...LOL!

Funny. Then all the puffers should be acting this way, no? Here is something I read this morning. Couple of guys talking.
"My neurologist explained that head injuries are cumulative.' '... I had crashed her each year I raced her."

You'll like this one, Kruz...
I got bored with the 350 Honda and tired of people complaining that 350 Hondas win all the time.
Said another...
There was just something neat about the CB-30 engines. If you hopped them up they went fast, if you screwed them up they went even faster.

I'll let you decide who owns the HP wars, and see how much I war with the zig-zags against my banging the drum slowly. Oh look, Sea Meantwo.. Oh no... Bad high side! Hello Santa!

Funny. Then all the puffers should be acting this way, no

I said peace pipe, not crack pipe Hub...LOL!

Flies out, Yoshi slips and Ivan's TRE and tune (sorry Hub...LOL) and she pulls like a freight train off the bottom. This was the gold standard back in '06 and nothings changed. Mine will stand up in first gear at 1500 rpm, more than this I don't need.

Me either Kruz. is yours still as smooth as glass like it was new or is it a little more gruff.

me: 08, stock pipes, PC3, no sniffer, ignition module (advanced). much stronger down low but no standing up. feels like it needs tuning. but i hear tuners using happy dynos to get big numbers on wot. not big numbers on 5%/10% throttle at 2500--5000 rpm. That's where most of my riding is done.

pulled flies, mapped with--AutoTune or better (I'm told) go with a Wideband 2. The little burst at mid 3K is almost imperceptible to me. No more scary right hand turns from a stoplight (I guess in Oz you all drive on the left so lefties are tighter for you). No more Chinese water torcher waiting for the power zip. I almost never even know it is there except once in a great while I can feel it. no biggy.
.....although I am curious if the 2012 has this little peccadillo. (not armadillo) ....and I wouldn't want to talk you out of buying a 2012, russty..........just paint it Midnight Sapphire Blue

Two different approaches to the same problem, interesting.

Rook, I've been thinking about the autotune for a while, but I'm wary so help me out. I heard a little while ago the autotune does not work well in the lower rpms. What's your experience with it down low? I'm wary of the autotune path 'cause it's going to cost a lot of coin swapping to the PC5, autotune, dyno tunes etc. So if I'm going to spend more coin (I already spent a lot) and take time with trial and error tuning, the possibility of swapping for the 14R with a monster bottom end (to be confirmed yet) starts to sound attractive. spend coin, save time and ride a true jeckel and hyde that's never more than a slight twist of the wrist away from big smiles, and its bone stock (warranty, stability etc)

The 14R hasn't landed in Oz yet, so I'll hold off commenting on colour, but it's going to be hard to beat the Midnight Sapphire Blue, I'm right with you there Rook

"Mine will stand up in first gear at 1500 rpm, more than this I don't need". elses stand up at 1500 RPM?Just curious.I must have done something wrong with mine.No flies...4 degree advance...TiForce slips...16/43 gearing.PcIII mapped for bottom response as well.1/5th throttle mod.Wet weight...540 lbs(half tank of fuel).

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/28/2011 @ 2:55 PM *

My take is the new bike has more HP and torque and also 29 lbs more weight than the '06 and that is by Kawasaki's own numbers. The new bike has more potential, agreed but if you are lining up against an older 14, don't automatically assume you will beat him just because you are on a 14R, the numbers don't support it.

Once again, you are comparing runs done at different tracks, with different riders, in different conditions, etc. Anyone who races knows that you cannot compare two vehicles this way. The best comparo I've seen so far is the 14vs14 vs14R video RG posted. At least those runs were done on the same day with the same rider. He even ran the 14R with taller gearing, which will slow it down once it gets moving. Standing 1/4 mile drags are one thing, line up a stock 14 with a stock 14R at 50 MPH and hit both. Stock gearing on both, the 14R is gonna leave the 14 far behind.

Accept that the new bike has more power, is quicker and has a better suspension. You certainly do not have to upgrade, but you also don't need to keep posting why upgrading makes no sense to you.

Rossb, you didn't by any chance happen to read those two articles I posted? I made it clear both press intros, '06 and '12 were done at the same track, Las Vegas International Speedway in Las Vegas Nevada, same month of the year, same riders, Gadson and Duke Danger. Even corrected times taking into account atmospheric variables were virtually identical. The new machine may be more difficult to launch, hence not a huge improvement in ET at the press intros despite more HP. It is also very possible that atmospherics were more favorable at the 2012 ZX14R press intro, read the entire article where they said it was very cool, i.e. higher air density and more power.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 12/28/2011 @ 6:26 PM *

Accept that the new bike has more power, is quicker and has a better suspension. You certainly do not have to upgrade, but you also don't need to keep posting why upgrading makes no sense to you.

As I've already stated, if you would take the time to read my previous posts, the new bike has more power but I'll wait for independent and impartial verification from the press before I make any decisions on performance.
For all I know, you may be an employee of Kawasaki, wouldn't be the first time and why else would you care so much what I think?

BTW, I always get a bit suspicious when a newb joins up in November right about the time of a new model release and is already an expert on the new machine.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 12/28/2011 @ 7:02 PM *

I must have done something wrong with mine.

Your words, not mine!

Me either Kruz. is yours still as smooth as glass like it was new or is it a little more gruff.

My '06 with flies in was gutless below 6000 rpm Russty. After Ivan's Performance got through with it, it felt like a dirt bike. Smooth but ferocious torque all the way down to just off idle. Ivan spent a lot of time getting his package for the '06/'07 right. He also developed a tuning package for the '08 through '11. Check out his website and look at his graphs, his stuff rocks. He also tuned my '08 ZX-10R, went from pussycat to raging beast.

* Last updated by: Kruz on 12/28/2011 @ 6:55 PM *

elses stand up at 1500 RPM?

Mine will do it about 9K. Aint no way I'd go WOT below 3K without any clutch--or the motor would be wanting to puke itself out of the exhaust. Kruz, I want a ride on your bike.

He also developed a tuning package for the '08 through '11.

Rossb, you didn't by any chance happen to read those two articles I posted? I made it clear both press intros, '06 and '12 were done at the same track, Las Vegas International Speedway in Las Vegas Nevada, same month of the year, same riders, Gadson and Duke Danger. Even corrected times taking into account atmospheric variables were virtually identical. The new machine may be more difficult to launch, hence not a huge improvement in ET at the press intros despite more HP. It is also very possible that atmospherics were more favorable at the 2012 ZX14R press intro, read the entire article where they said it was very cool, i.e. higher air density and more power.

"Same month of the year" is not a valid justification. The runs would need to be done on the same day, in the same year, in the same conditions. Two runs done at the same track 1 day apart can vary greatly. Every hear of the term DA? Your posts on the first page of this thread mentioned multiple riders. You are adding too many variable to the equation. Line both factory stock bikes up at 50 MPH to eliminate launch variables, open them both up, and watch what happens.

How am I an "expert" on the new machine? Because I know that the bike with the bigger engine and upgraded suspension is going to be faster and handle better? Maybe I sound like I work for KHI (I don't), but you sound upset that an improved model was released.

Rook quote
Mine will do it about 9K. Aint no way I'd go WOT below 3K without any clutch--or the motor would be wanting to puke itself out of the exhaust

Rook you are quite right on this one don't mean to contradict Kruz again but he can handle it. Look at a traditional hot rod engine they would lope at idle because of a hot cam. That's what we have here that is why it idles at 1200 rpm and has secondaries in the first place. Hot cams don't develop enough intake velocity at low rpms so the secondaries close up to increase the velocity. Hhat is why it runs better with them in my bike same way it just cleans up at 3k it's the nature of the beast. Look at a good example the 1250 Suz Bandit it makes power right off idle but falls on it's face at 6500 or so. No cam can go great at both extremes.

* Last updated by: kawnow on 12/29/2011 @ 12:36 AM *

Just the fact that RG modded the 14R implies that the bike is good/better but not that great. The bike with the biggest motor wins but often the bike with the most weight looses. The 14R has about 60 lbs on my modded 06 and look at what the bmw did to the bigger motored 14 and busa. From a roll on I don't think the 14R is going to be able to walk away from the new s thou. Drag race... yeah sure but that's about it.
Drag racers are already pulling flies... the bike is not three months old. RG went with the taller gearing to have an advantage not to slow himself up. Meaning the launch is problematic.
About RG? Sorry guys but the guy get checks from kaw. Wake up fellows read btw the lines... he is insulting ur brains. He put up a vid in which he wheelies a busa like a stunter and come back and tell you his best stock time before the 14R was on the same bike! Or the dyno test... 188... 186 ooops let me take this phone call ok I'm back look at this 195 hp!!!!!! I'm not saying I doubt the bike prowesses but coming from a company which only upgraded colors for 6 years forgive me if I have my reservations... On whether kaw engineers are smarter than us. Hell yeah but I still did better with a screwdriver and Brock's pipe. Wanna test an 11 against my modded 06 lol. They'll tell you we put flies for safety... you know how dangerous the flies are in a slow turn on a cold morning? show me busa riders have more accidents and throw the first stone.I'll admit the bike is better than previous gen but no pegasus.. We are talking 6 years of R&D. I think all of that is going to make the busa a better bike cause they don't put no flies. They re like Ducati they make the bike and tell you tame it or die no compromise.Grunt and top end are going to be of biblical proportions, plus their back is against the wall... anybody read Sun Tzu? lol kaw wanna blackbird the busa and although I found the RG clip amusing... I feel like they shoulda let independant racer find out on the strip.Calling a bike a hayabusa when there is a blackbird... priceless. I can't buy a new 14 every 2 years I like to keep my toys and although it's been 6 years I'm glad to see some upgrade. If the 14R is great what are we going to call the 14 that will be the answer to the next busa?

Mine loves that 50 degrees cool air lol wack the throttle 2500 rpm She will pull a figure worth a ten. I need to tell you about my latest wheelie Rook! In the past my mistake was to keep her at a high rpm and go wot... no can do she goes ballistic when u take her from under where the flies are suppose to open to wot. IT's like no acceleration all the trust goes toward the sky. I don't have the corones to chase a wheelie on a bike like this... scary. I think she will suplex my butt. lol

* Last updated by: dragking on 12/29/2011 @ 12:56 AM *

"BTW, I always get a bit suspicious when a newb joins up in November right about the time of a new model release and is already an expert on the new machine".
You mean...like a few on here saying they know all about a bike they've never ridden?Let's see here...idle speed for the zx14,all year models....1050 to 1100.That's approximately 400 rpm difference to 1500rpm.So,at 1500 rpm,the zx14 is lofting the front wheel easily,no problem.And this is a product of an Ivan Map?.Hmmm.Okay.And the newb doesn't know what he's talking about...yes?

"I must have done something wrong with mine".Yes,I must have.Someone here who has got a 14 that does this,I want to know how I can get mine to do it.What did you do to make your 14 so beastly?What is your technique?I must know.Seriously.

The deal is beginning to unravel for a few of ya here.Not everyone on this forum is buyin into the idea that the new bike is 'just a facelift'.It's okay to throw in the towel and say...."She's badazz and I want one!" Nobody will make fun of ya.

"Just the fact that RG modded the 14R implies that the bike is good/better but not that great".

I know you are aware of his 'mods'.TALLER GEARING...to TRY and control his launch.Even with KTRC going...what's THAT say about the bike?And removing the stock cans?She didn't run better with those off...so apparently THAT particular deal wasn't as good as they thought it might be.The 'weight loss' just didn't justify the loss of low end performance by ditching those cans.They found out that the stockers actually helped the overall package.I don't know if ANYONE here can actually say or prove that their 06 to 2011 zx14 will run better with the stock cans on there.Mine didn't.But that's only MY bike.I believe the factory cans on the earlier bikes are 'well designed' alright.BUT..they're NOT optimum for power generation throughout the rpm range.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 12/29/2011 @ 1:18 AM *

Personally, I'm not saying the new 14r isn't awesome, because I think it is....but I will say that I'm perfectly happy with my '11 and will be for probably several years...and who knows WHAT might be out by then. Just saying :)

You SHOULD be perfectly happy with it.It's your baby.Your ride.I was perfectly happy with my 07 as well.You can't take away from a guys' experience(s) with HIS bike.It's personal.I wanted the newest incarnation...that's it.I KNEW she'd be a keeper just with the engine upgrade...knowing how Kawasaki designed and put together the earlier model(s).I just felt very good about getting the new one...cause I had such a great experience with my other 14.And I did not get it for purely 'more power'.I knew they would build an engine performing with greater smoothness because that's how they do it.And the frame,suspension,brakes...the whole nine yards would be up to the level of the motor and all.Which to me....meant a greater riding experience.And to me...it is.

Absolutely!

This may sound strange...but I ALWAYS.....ALWAYS felt safe on my bike.No matter what was going on...even in some close calls with cages(their fault)...I still felt safe.I feel the same on my new bike.SAFE.To me...that's a feeling that makes the ride so worthwhile.I'm never afraid of getting nailed while I'm riding.Not on these bikes.I don't know WHY I feel safe exactly.Maybe I shouldn't think on it too much.But it is a very real feeling.I get out and away from traffic...move through the cages out there on the open road,effortlessly.Get free and clear...it's just very good to be able to do that on the Ninja.Get into the open patches of road where you've left the traffic WAY behind and open er up...hit the sweeps.Roll in.Power through and out the other side..lining up for the next curve or whatever.With no one around ya...just you and the big road and your Ninja.Awesome....that's what does it for me.Going in style and silky smoothness.The best designed street bike out there for the open road and all.

I know exactly what ya mean....not to mention that great feeling knowing that 99% of everything else on the road 'CAN'T TOUCH THIS'! :)