I have seen some solder connections, like on a circuit board crack and expand when hot, and so break connection. I'm thinking about bypassing a few of the many possibilities (like kickstand and clutch) and see if the problem stops. I'm taking it to the dealer this weekend for it's 15,000 mile service, so I'm going to see if they have any ideas too. They must have seen this before since it sounds so common. I'll update after I get it back from them.

You will code the bike. It's a closed loop system. Everything is toggle/sensor driven as one unit. As if you have say a computer tower and you remove the mouse card, the monitor card, the keyboard, see what it means by closed loop to make this/that work?

And on page don't do it, it says:
Connector not connected - Code is set.
Wire out of connector - Code present.
Short/signal out of range - Dash is blinking a code.

Do you see any bypass moves? It is going to be checkmated 3 different ways, right? Are we now a hands off kind of, darn, can't do that, ah shit, I can't even... fuck me! Welcome to the club.

Your bike is pre-cam sensor. I believe this means sequential fire or emissions driven to start the engines sooner than waste a fuel and spark like old batch fire vs. sequence fire? So you do not start as soon is the one variable I can thing of. If they addressed that complaint like you might be having, there is your fix is the cam sensor by evolution, not addressing a complaint. This is euro-shit kind of compliance.

But with the service coming up, no plug change every 7,500 miles, the valves are do for a check, the oil/filter, coolant, brake flush, chain lube/adj. Hardware checked/lubed levers/peg pivots. The sync and a higher idle might light it right off one time. Maybe even like 1,150 rpm, from normal 1,100.

Just for grins, go take the bike for a ride for 20 minutes. That's about as hot as it will get so you pull over out of traffic, go down to the left side, find the idle cable and raise the idle just a touch below 1,200, but higher than it is now. This way, you now leave it alone. Next morning you come out and start it, [do not touch a throttle on a computer bike upon startup], whereas the cable adjust ramps the subs open more and maybe that's all it needs.

Because, there is no click, then starts. What you are more like saying is it cranks, but it starts the second time, yes?

Because, there is no click, then starts. What you are more like saying is it cranks, but it starts the second time, yes?

No Hub, I think he's saying press the button and no crank. Press again and it cranks. That's what mine does.

Has to do it each time the bike is turned off and that means the bike stopping for gas/lunch/stalls/etc, yes or no?

I aint ridin no bike that intermittantly won't crank!No way.

I aint ridin no bike that intermittantly won't crank!No way

an unreliable starter is indeed a very stressful situation... and by design, the bike does not really provide alternative options to the electric starter
... this would call for saying a little prayer every time, before pushing that unreliable start button

I haven't owned the bike for even two months yet, so I'm still getting to know it, but it seems to do the same thing every time. Turn key on, dash comes to life, fuel pump primes, push start button, nothing happens. Release start button and push again, engine cranks and fires up. I did notice the last time I rode it, it seemed to give a little crank at the end of the first start button push as I released the button, right at the end of travel. I did take the button assembly apart and checked it with a multi-meter and the button read good every push.

I did notice the last time I rode it, it seemed to give a little crank at the end of the first start button push as I released the button, right at the end of travel.

Back to seeing if there is some idiosyncrasy to starting? It goes something like this... When the ride is over, key is turned off, the ECU saves a good known signal for ease of start or more for sequential firing. So this is called a saved RAM. By double cycling the key, you erased the saved signal, I believe. So as if you pulled out a brand new computer from a box, the hard drive is empty of any files, short of the windows/linix/mac software. You could now say the bike starts clean or ROM shows 0000 upon startup, no saved signal.

So double key to clear the saved signal. May/may not work.

That's an interesting theory Hub, the ECU would be the only thing that could decide to let the bike start on the second push of the button I guess. I'm definitely paying closer attention to details every time I start it now.

This sounds plausable.Good one Hub.I had a similar set of issues when I installed the Brock's manual timing wheel on my 07.The screws loosened up,causing the timing to be off at different times.It wouldn't fire at times.Then it would.Is it possible the wheel somehow is loose in there?IDK.The momentum of it turning,then shutting the bike off moved the wheel just enough to cause it.It wouldn't fire,then a second attempt and it would.I've no idea if the ecu 'adjusts' the timing for starting when the key is turned on.If so,that could account for it being just a smidgen off enough to be out of spec with the ecu programming.IDK.
Not sure if mine flashed a code or not.It may have."Cam position sensor" if I recall right.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 9/3/2020 @ 2:22 PM *

Remember, Grn, it showed a code at the cam sensor. Crank/Cam/??? is more a family loop of 3's. Why would it throw a cam code when the crank's tone wheel was loose? Thus the phantom code throwing you off being the crank sensor. MrB has no code so you can't chase the code or the family it matches with... assuming there is a 3'some to a code reference. Confusing, yes.

I did notice the last time I rode it, it seemed to give a little crank at the end of the first start button push as I released the button,

In the words of Hub.
Intermittent.
Diagnosed.
Ordered.
Recieved.
Installed.
Resolved.

Cheap automotive relays, who knew.

Ive seen this on the most expensive space qualified relays you could ever buy (ok Im more a electro-mechanical guy so this means power relays for motors and mechanisms instate of solid state digital circuit stuff) they cost more than the gold plated toilet seat on the B2. Once we verify its not a pushed out connector pin/contact its almost always the next area we look at in an intermittent failure

Glad you got her solved, I hate intermittent issues.

The Hub WAY.
Intermittent problem.
Diagnose.
Order part.
Part received.
Part Installed.
Problem solved.

New Tag Line Turtle

TIDOP3

The Hub WAY.
Intermittent problem.
Diagnose.
Order part.
Part received.
Part Installed.
Problem solved.

Are you sure, Bopropucope? Did you test it enough times to know the intermittent problem is now gone?

And where is this thing located?

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/4/2020 @ 8:52 PM *

wild ass guess its under the seat

Wild guess, follow the read battery cable to the relay.

Yes. Under the rainbow.??

wild ass guess its under the seat

I have two fuse boxes under my Gen1 seat.

Under the rainbow.??

Service Manual p 16-66. Ah, under the rainbow! Back of the battery box. That was my guess. I thought that was only the main fuse but looks like it's the starter relay too.

This explains the loud buzz I have heard coming from the battery area sometimes when the starter doesn't go.

I'll have to order one. Thanks, islandninja, Hub, Bopropucope and everyone who contributed. I'll report back someday when I get this replaced. Looks like an opportunity to order a few new Pro-Bolts too! They will cost more than the relay.

* Last updated by: Rook on 9/5/2020 @ 10:00 AM *

MrB, I wonder if you somehow got a bad new starter relay? Mine did this from brand new.

Hi guys, here's the latest, took the bike to the dealer today for its 15k service. Started first press of the button, so second press thing was all in my head. The service manager said it was a fairly common issue, he thought it was probably just some carbon build-up on the starter rotor from the brushes, but had never worked on a bike doing it. I ordered the brush kit from Partzilla today, and this will be one of my winter projects. $26.

Just remember, the first time I noticed it happen, my 08 was nearly new.

Started first press of the button, so second press thing was all in my head.

Make sense?