If my bike is left in 6th gear, caN I do any harm to it by turning the rear wheel to move the engine a couple strokes every now and then? This no different than turning the engine by the crankshaft timing rotor nut, is it?

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When youre riding and roll off the throttle tje same thing is happening.

No problem with turning the crank via the rear wheel.

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cool. just thought I'd ask for my own peace of mind. I like to go out every couple of weeks and turn the wheel forward to move the engine to a new position. That is for peace of mind too. Hate to see it sit in one spot all winter and not move at all.

I think it is probably best to turn the wheel forward ONLY. I've heard that turning the engine backward can cause the cam chain to jump teeth on the timing sprockets.

Does it seem a bit OCD that I do things to give me peace of mind that cause me to need additional peace of mind?

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Does it seem a bit OCD that I do things to give me peace of mind that cause me to need additional peace of mind?

Not at all, D. A lot of us here have the same mental mechanism.

Tidbit: the cam chain guides are designed to handle the chain tension in one direction, forward, rather than backward. Consider your tensioner: its located on the slack side of the chain. If you turn the engine backwards you invert the load imparted by the chain. I dont recommend it.

A couple turns forward as she sleeps cant hurt. In a perfect world we would fog the cylinder with a very light oil which would also reside on the valve faces and seats. But that is an extreme to be attempted by none but the most Zen OCD.

;)

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Tidbit: the cam chain guides are designed to handle the chain tension in one direction, forward, rather than backward. Consider your tensioner: its located on the slack side of the chain.

ahhhhh!

In a perfect world we would fog the cylinder with a very light oil which would also reside on the valve faces and seats. But that is an extreme to be attempted by none but the most Zen OCD.

heheheh, yes, I intended to do the engine fog this year.....still got a couple months. Would be at least half as worthwhile as it would have been had I done the fog in November!

Light oil to fog, hey? I was thinking of just carefully shooting a squirt of regular 10/40 down through the spark plug holes and turning the motor by hand a few revz. Wouldn't you think that a heavy oil would be best to stick to the parts....or does the thinner film of a light oil have a greater tendancy to remain on the parts rather than flowing down by gravity? ....or does the light oil disburse over the parts better initially?

* Last updated by: Rook on 1/24/2014 @ 7:39 AM *

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Well Rookster...ya may as well just go ahead and start er up and let er run for a couple of minutes...not long enough to get even warm.That'll take care of the lubing deal?

A > No. You do not create enough splash to lube the rings. You'll scrap parts spinning the oil off the cams, out of the cam towers, etc.

1. Pull plugs: Drop ATF down the hole; spin once so the oil moves up the cylinder walls and drops down to coat the walls; let the oil run around the top ring; runs down the other ring thru the top groove and so forth. Do not turn engine during the season; install plugs.

2. Pull frame service doors: Pour ATF down the throttle bodies; WOT the throttle so it does not start; crank very little so that wipe occurs; and you wind up on the same page as 1. Install battery minder; start when season begins.

3. Start bike: So the case gets so hot; the oil does not turn milky with condensation. That's hours on the bike sitting for: you count how long the bike idles before the fan comes on. Top off with fresh gas so the old gas does not go stale, or add a stabilizer.

4. What sounds like a one hit wonder you walk away, or burn out the bike every year; hours sat idling going nowhere; or a fresher engine prepped for winter?

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Thanks Hub. We've had this conversation in the past. I remember the details. Pull plugs to squirt cylinders but be careful to not smear up plug well with oil. Bulkhead doors open and shoot some oil down each T-body bore. You used an oil can with a 12" long, steel flex-tube nozzle.

Now about the plugs, they will get all carboned up as soon as I start the motor in Spring with all that oil film all over in there, right?

Well Rookster...ya may as well just go ahead and start er up and let er run for a couple of minutes...not long enough to get even warm.That'll take care of the lubing deal?

Nah, can't do it. If I was riding it , I guess I would but no way I can avoid condensation starting below 40 F. Even if the motor idles 20 minutes. I see through the glass Jack Frost has run all over the inside of my crankcase. Only way is to go for a good long ride and get the whole bike hot. There goes fresh oil for storage. Like you, I would do it if I was riding the bike now and again. But alas, I am not. Just a couple months and I will be (I hope).

In the meantime, got another lil project to play with. Probably a bit late for engine fogging but never too late to learn.

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Well...the bike's not sitting in below freezing temps is it?30 something's.It gets COLD in Japan;)Only condensation you're gonna get is if you allow the motor to heat up then shut off.Say 5 minutes of idling.In the cold that is.Otherwise...starting for 1-2 minutes should get a nice oil flow in everything.The optimum would be...yes...at the end of the season spray the cylinders...I guess you still could and be fine doing the wheel spin thing.

MY experience has been...in the COLD...anything more than say 2 minutes WILL produce condensation.Otherwise...it stays clear.Remember...we aint in S Cal.Personally...I don't ever start my bike(s) during Winter.Not in the COLD like you and I get.

" Even if the motor idles 20 minutes". That's the problem in the cold....letting the motor warm up.DON'T let the motor get warm.1 or 2 minutes is all.Maybe even less than 2 minutes.You can't escape the reality of 1st time starting when she's been sitting...for a longish period.When it's really cold...bad time to be firing up the bike 'just to get some oiling".Best to wait until the temps go up.It won't harm the motor to sit(when you've put her away with full oil coverage of a 'last ride'.)Long as she's not sitting in freezing temps continuously for a long while.Just my opinion...I'm no mechanic as you know.

The oil is gonna have 'water' in it no matter what.When that 'water' freezes up wherever it's at inside...teeny molecules mixed with the oil...that's not good...to be firing up the bike like that.Wait till temps go up.

What about the Snowmobilers?What do THEY recommend?IDK...

You saw what happened to the Space Shuttle when they launched...and exploded.RUBBER seals failed.TOO COLD.Same as yer motor...in COLD conditions...cold like we get.For extended periods of time.Let sit...no need to fire it up really.Turning by hand won't get a cold oil flowing anyway.

This whole 'oiling' thing really is for a bike that's been sitting for.....a year or more.You can't ride yours now...so why not wait until things warm up some...it won't harm the motor to sit as is for a few months.

* Last updated by: Grn14 on 2/7/2014 @ 12:03 PM *

Well...the bike's not sitting in below freezing temps is it?

Oh ya. My car outdoor thermometer reads about 15 degrees warmer in the garage than the outside temp. Outside is 15, 10, 0, -10F the bike and car are sitting below freezing in the garage.

MY experience has been...in the COLD...anything more than say 2 minutes WILL produce condensation.Otherwise...it stays clear.

You are probably right but if the bike runs less time than it take to shut the fast idle off, who knows how well the cold oil is flowing through the smallest passages? Mine actually runs slow when it is really cold and then speeds up to fast idle before going to regular idle speed.

What about the Snowmobilers?What do THEY recommend?IDK...

Good point. But insteafd of a simple winter start, they get a good run which would evaporate water and also seems to allow the engine to cool gradually enough that condensation does not form. I have ridden my bike in below freezing temps. If it's a long ride, there is no condensation.

This whole 'oiling' thing really is for a bike that's been sitting for.....a year or more.You can't ride yours now...so why not wait until things warm up some...it won't harm the motor to sit as is for a few months.

Yes I know. I'm just anal about this stuff. Turning the motor by hand was just an idea I had to at least move the points where the parts touch in case there was any corrosion happening. I know it won't cause oil to flow.

* Last updated by: Rook on 2/7/2014 @ 1:58 PM *

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And...I just reread my posts on here....has nothing to do with what you originally posted...!!!!!!!!!!Sorry Rook....geez I can get off track SOOOOO EASY!Just thoughts really that came through my(bent)mind at the time....;)

not at all, Greenie. I was thinking about fogging the motor but was a little unsure if I would get around to it before Spring. The turning of the motor by hand is just a plan B. Looks like I will just leave it be. Fog if I can get around to it in the next few weeks or just leave it sit in place for the duration. This is all good info no matter what direction the convo goes in. YOU MY BOY, Greenie!

Now, what happens when I fire up the motor after it has had a good film of oil applied via squirt in the Throttle bodies? That is going to burn up and foul the plugs, isn't it?

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Thanks Rookster...didn't want to jack yer thread...no way.Plug fouling with an 'oil misting'....nah...can't see that happening at all.

Cold start is going to be a bit rich. A bit washy. A tiny bit of smoke on light up. Then idles as if no oil at all. Remember, the oil is going to move thru the ring gaps all those weeks sitting. ATF is think, not thick like oil.

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What is ATF? Can I pick some up at a auto supply?

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Automatic Transmission Fluid.

aaahhhhhh!

Why do we use the ATF instead of plain old engine oil? Isn't ATF about the same weight as engine oil?

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No. ATF has to push fast thru check balls; move quickly thru tunnels in the valve body; and the servo switches that direct the fluid; has to have less resistance thru those tiny passages, etc. If you took a paper cup, punched the center up so the fluid is flowing over the top of the piston crown, look at how much is around the edge of the cup? That's all you need. Did you fill up past the bump you made? Where are the new iridiums ready to go?

When you pour that little, wait for the oil to be around that bottom ring of the cup. I can:

1. Spin my wheel in N real fast and at the same time pull up into 2nd. I need to find that idiosyncrasy so I am turning the crank in 6th gear.

2. I need to crank slow. This wipes the walls. If I move too fast because of the plugs removed, I can whoosh the oil out by the air moving that violently.

3. That 2nd move does not address the open valves and seat exposure to condensation. If add a pinch more ATF I can compress the oil and mist the valves and seats that are open. I could take a rubber boat plug; close the exhaust pipe opening(s)> backwash the exhaust, intake valves and their seats with the AFT. Lets use some old iridiums and screw them half way down the threads or they'll blow right out along with the threads. Air will go past the threads so it won't be so hard to turn. But that thread count is critical to go deep enough. Then install the new plugs. Whatever was there, it got blown out some so the new plugs should survive that little residue left behind.

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1. Pull plugs: Drop ATF down the hole; spin once so the oil moves up the cylinder walls and drops down to coat the walls; let the oil run around the top ring; runs down the other ring thru the top groove and so forth. Do not turn engine during the season; install plugs.
2. Pull frame service doors: Pour ATF down the throttle bodies; WOT the throttle so it does not start; crank very little so that wipe occurs; and you wind up on the same page as 1. Install battery minder; start when season begins.

Would you squirt ATF down the T-bodies and the spark plug holes or did you mean do one or the other? Seems like either way the same goal is achieved-- the ATF is deposited on top of the piston ready for the wipe.

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Seems like either way the same goal is achieved-- the ATF is deposited on top of the piston ready for the wipe.

Correct. Want to make sure, squirt down both intake valves. Plugs may be a pain to find the hole under there. Whereas the frame doors seem to be the quicker way to the oil entry. That says, no mess or smell you miss the spark plug hole and now it burns that oil and all that debris or chard oil around the plug's sealing gasket.

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I guess you want to be certain the cylinder that is being squirted with ATF via the intake valves----is positioned somewhere in the intake stroke---so as to be sure the intake valves are open so the ATF can flow down to the top ring of the piston of said cylinder?

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WOT you are going to do is ratchet the sub open and leave it alone (ignore the noise: it will zero out on its own like the tach/speedo); bungee cord the throttle open full. Find the longest steel tube type oiler. I have this style but with a longer reach shaft. Aim down both ports so both valves get a taste. You'll see some valves open so make sure you count, not watch how much you are leveling out into on a closed valve? Get it?

1. This way, you keep the plugs in. Why? Grab 4 clips under that space; twist the spark stick to yank it out; pull the plugs; put them back in; and then part way back in to run the engine with a tap of the starter? We haven't begun missing the hole, capturing something in that spark stick hole and the ATF sends it down into the chamber? You have no control aiming for that hole. It is more like you have to be a bomber pilot and pinpoint that spark plug hole or miss on the first shot. Pass thanks. But it is an option going after the same thing with the AFT, remember.

2. This is more my way of a storage hit. Tank off; service doors off the frame; WOT the blades; aim and shoot; tap the starter; close the door on the storage lockers; gas from the bike goes into the car; ATF in the tank and rotate upside down to coat that air gap that has condensation when sorted with a full tank. I top off the gas, that dilutes any AFT.

3. Tank Option: This is where if you rather not mix oil like a 2-stroke bike. Instead; add some gas; shake it up; prime the fuel pump before you top off the tank. Shake with fresh gas until you see less red. Dump the primed red gas into the car with a full tank, meaning. That takes care of the tank's winter prep and prepared to reservice it back on the bike. What about the oil fouling the plugs on start up? Well, if it does not start; figure a set of iridiums every season; back to using a set of installing used plugs to remove the initial (odds) of fouling the plug(s).

4. This is a crap shoot either way about the plugs. They either survive like starting a rich 2-stroke and it lights off, or you wind up changing plugs she won't start and/or misfires. Only you [reservice] and a warm day knows for sure.

* Last updated by: Hub on 2/8/2014 @ 8:49 PM *

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Practice with a paper cup, meaning, how much comes out in one stroke? Remember, that's 8 valves and how many strokes in each port think.

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Find the longest steel tube type oiler. I have this style but with a longer reach shaft

I saw the one you had posted pics of a couple years ago. It was a short gray can with a thick flexible steel tube about 12" long. I saw one just like it at HF.

WOT you are going to do is ratchet the sub open and leave it alone (ignore the noise: it will zero out on its own like the tach/speedo); bungee cord the throttle open full. Find the longest steel tube type oiler. I have this style but with a longer reach shaft. Aim down both ports so both valves get a taste. You'll see some valves open so make sure you count, not watch how much you are leveling out into on a closed valve? Get it?

2. This is more my way of a storage hit. Tank off; service doors off the frame; WOT the blades; aim and shoot; tap the starter; close the door on the storage lockers; gas from the bike goes into the car; ATF in the tank and rotate upside down to coat that air gap that has condensation when sorted with a full tank. I top off the gas, that dilutes any AFT.

^^^the service covers would be my choice as well. I have the secondary flies out so that is not a consideration on my bike. The Primaries open by the throttle cable so all i need to do is bungee the throttle grip WOT.

Rather than tapping the starter, I would be a lot more comfortable turning the motor by hand. Can't I just leave the bike 6th gear and turn the motor 180 degrees by the rear wheel to do the wipe on the 2 cylinders that have open intake valves that were just squirted with ATF?....then proceed to squirt the remaining two cylinders....then turn by hand another 180 degree so all 4 cylinders are wiped?

* Last updated by: Rook on 2/9/2014 @ 12:14 PM *

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Naaaaa, again, you more or less want to avoid as many crank turns via the top end is the last to be lubed. So you more squirt 8 times down each port, run the bike in 6th about 3 feet and stop. Each pump is just once is the mist. If you rather run down the street, you'll defeat what is going to be whooshed out. So it's more like one blowup and let it settle out. One compression cycle meaning. Feel the bump-bump-bumps.

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