Hi all,

I just signed up here. Thought I'd put a feeling up here and see what you all think about it.

I bought a '97 Blackbird new in '97. It dyno'd at 138 HP after I had put 1000 miles on it. I put an Erion Racing full system exhaust on it, a Penske shock, RaceTech fork internals, jetting job done to perfection, took off the centerstand (looked goofy) and had what I felt and still feel is a pretty cool monster. She weighs 515 dry and she's been such a GT screamer that I've had no interest in anything like a Hayabusa or ZX-12 because I'd grown so form-fit to the XX. It dyno'd at 149 peak, but had mid-range gains of over 10-15%. You'd love it; it's old-schoolish by now, but it's a monster.

Well, of course in 2012 the ZX-14R caught my eye, and last month I bought one (2014). I put a Brocks header on it immediately, along with a PCV and the Street Map.

Here's my thought: It's not all that I expected, power-wise. Sure, it seems to have an edge in power over the Blackbird, but it's not punching me in the face or anything. If I pin it in fourth from, say, 60 MPH, it pulls linearly and cleanly, but it doesn't come anywhere near surprising me or shocking me with power.

I was thinking, "Maybe it's that 200 HP vs. 150 is only a 33% increase and that's not what I thought it would be". But what I'm really worried about is, could my bike be performing incorrectly?

I thought I'd hit the braintrust here and see what you all think. I'm going to take it to a dyno and see how it goes, and I'm also going to get the Brock re-flash (Guhl programming) next week. Still, I wonder if my experience on the Blackbird just made it so that 200 HP doesn't seem like that much more. I thought it might really be enough to shock me, but if my bike's making 200, then 200 isn't enough to shock me -- at least on this 550 lb. Ninja.

Any thoughts are appreciated. Hello to all. I'm in Ohio, dodging rain this weekend.

Best,

Jon

What you're experiencing is refinement as opposed to raw.

* Last updated by: hagrid on 6/14/2015 @ 6:27 PM *

Welcome Jon, I would recommend turning TC off and downshifting to 1st or 2nd at 60mph for a guaranteed punch in the face when you roll it on. Not much on the road can compare at that point acceleration wise!!

Seriously though the ZX14r is a very rideable bike and quite docile down low. Your XX sounds like a real nice bike.

150 is 75% of 200 so your 14R has 25% more power than your XX.

Anyway, look at the video of the HM quickshifter that I posted below, if your bike does not roll the speedometer at a rate like that then maybe something is wrong with it. I had to a have custom drag seat made for my bike because it was literally dragging me off of it. Even on a good road, my bike is subject to lift the front end up in 2nd or break the back tire loose and I'm using the super sticky Shinko Hookup.

* Last updated by: skewedTotheLeft on 6/17/2015 @ 8:38 AM *

He means here
VVVV

http://zx14ninjaforum.com/messages.cfm?threadid=E7261AB4-DD07-BF17-97702AD8D6E37DB1&page=1

See page 3 for more recnt vid and there's a few other nice vids on this thread.

Hi Skewed,

Far be it from a newbie to contend or contradict, but I see it as 33%.

The 50 HP gain represents an addition of 33% of the Blackbird's power. With all kindness, your equation is inverted, representing the 50 HP as part of the ZX-14's power. To speak in terms of 25%, one would have to say "The Blackbird has only 75% of the ZX-14's power" or "The Blackbird shows a 25% decrement in power relative to the ZX".

My comparison speaks of my experience with (relative to) the Blackbird, so I reference it. My wording would be "The ZX shows 33% more power than the Blackbird" or "The ZX has a full one-third more power than the Blackbird".

My equation is 200=150x So,x=1.33 (or, 133%; or, a 33% increase).

I'd feel better if it WERE only 25% increase. I'd almost be able to say "Well, I should feel that, but not be whacked by it."

The 33% isn't a lot more, but I expected it to feel more authoritative. I guess I should really be thinking about torque and gearing if I'm going to go seat-of-the-pants, anyway!

Not trying to be a nit-picky ass, but my whole butt-dyno point is that I may be thinking incorrectly that I'd feel a 33% increase in power more than I think I do!

By the way, I have the wonderful Pilot Power 3 on the ZX. If it lasts only 3300 miles, so be it!

I'd love to see that video, but where is it? Am I missing something (the link)?

Best,

Jon

* Last updated by: Tallsomeone on 6/14/2015 @ 7:17 PM *

Tallsomeone,
I misunderstood your thought pattern. I do agree that your 14R has a 33% increase in power relative to your XX and by the reverse of that logic the 14R has 25% more horsepower than your XX - my bad.

Here is the video:
60 mph to about 181 mph pull.

* Last updated by: skewedTotheLeft on 6/15/2015 @ 11:09 AM *

Nice run skewed, but he mentioned 60mph in 4th gear. Not sure what a 4th gear roll on from 60 mph proves? Is that a common test of power?
Welcome aboard Tall. Spend a little time on your new bike, try getting the revs up and I'll bet you get "punched in the face" harder than you care for.

I've always felt like my bike doesn't perform like it should since it was new. I even made a thread about it when it was new, and got stones thrown at me on this very forum. I've proven my bike is a factory turd running my neighbors 2014 14R and getting drug in a horrible way, so I'm seriously thinking of getting rid of it.

* Last updated by: Nastynotch on 6/15/2015 @ 5:34 AM *

You know this is actually becoming an interesting topic--especially since NastyNotch has validated Tallsomeone's opinion. Now, I'm starting to wonder could the break-in process have anything to do with the life/performance of a bike. I took it easy for only 150 miles on my bike, but then I started hammering it and never looked back. She runs like a bat out of hell!

Just my two-cents?

Cheers,

I got my bike with 66 miles on it, so I have no idea how it was ridden in that time frame. From there to 200 miles it seen 11,000 through one gear. From 200 miles to 1000 it seen redline twice through one gear. All other miles were done by the book. I will say my neighbors bike pulls harder EVERYWHERE vs my bike, including part throttle tip in. His bike is stone stock save for Yoshi R77 slips. We've swapped my cblast ecu for his stock ecu, and his bike ran even better. It's got me pissed.

* Last updated by: Nastynotch on 6/15/2015 @ 6:39 AM *

His bike is stone stock save for Yoshi R77 slips. We've swapped my cblast ecu for his stock ecu, and his bike ran even better.

Let me read this right. He's got a stock bike/slips and creams you twice. Sans the ECU swapping; is it the rider or bike? Have you two swapped bikes to see if he leaves you as in... no offense but; questions the rider? Lots of swapping of parts going on here, so I have to assume no bikes changed hands, look the ass so again, no offense if this has been done.

Welcome, Tall. Turn the key on. What mode are you riding in; there at the bottom of the screen?

Hub yes we've swapped bikes. Yesterday as a matter of fact, and the outcome is about the same. Actually me on his bike and I pull my own bike it little harder. He's very sloppy with shifts,and I'm on time and shift clean. Trust me I've done every test imaginable, it's the bike.

what does the dealer and your warranty say about your loss of power? I would get baseline dyno data and take that to the dealer. I broke my '14 in by the book and with the CBLAST flash it is a beast and has only Yoshi Slips

* Last updated by: cruderudy on 6/15/2015 @ 9:48 AM *

The flash should wake it up some, mine is a beast also, but I think we always want more ??? I mean I thought by now we would have a full on 1400-1500 cc supercharged with adequate boost, not that we could always use all that power,
but it would be there in any given range when we want it .....

The ZX-14 has 50 HP more than the XX at the peak HP point, not at every point on the HP curve. Run them side by side at the peak HP RPM and I believe the ZX will move forward as though it had 50 HP more than the XX. If this starting point is at 100 MPH then 50 HP won't seem as much as it would at 50 MPH.

You have two great bikes, you lucky son of a gun. Enjoy them.

My warranty was up January, so it's my baby now. Bike runs perfect otherwise though. Just changed plugs and all looks good.

Kind of in the same boat here, not what I expected either, thought they were close to 200 stock.
Have over 120K miles on concours since 07 and wanted a beastly ZX14r too.
Two months ago, picked up a new 2013 zx14r and put 5,000 miles on it so far, no flies.
My 2012 Concours dynoed at 156hp sae and my new (leftover) 2013 zx14r dynoed at 176hp sae on the same dyno last week.
The zx14r is more fun, powerful and tossable but more like the dyno showed, only 20 more hp, not the beast I thought it was supposed to be. (the stock concours were dynoing about 130, 600's about 100, and 1000's about 150 that day).
I called Brocks, Yoshi and Muzzy about hp increases with full pipes and pvc, they were all very nice but it seems more for looks and loudness than actual any meaningful bumps in power.
They are very nice machines though but where is the beast?.

I answered you in the other forum too. Get it flashed to remove the built in safety map and get the flies open ASAP. I sometimes don't think mine is awe inspiring enough. Was sobering watching a coyple of videos of me launching at the Ohio mile. I wasn't really getting the gas wide open til 3rd gear and still ran 194.89. Put it in 1st gear at 60 and crank the throttle on then please report back.

Fellas, I know exactly what it will do in first gear when I yank it, and the Blackbird will do that too -- so easily that I can't really tell who's better because they both come up so fast that I have to back off.

I've been told that the STP (secondary throttle plates) open at 5500 RPM pre-flash. Brock says there is an odd "safety mode" that comes on in only certain circumstances to "save the rider". I hear so much stuff that I can't bank on any of it. The Guhl flash from Brock supposedly opens the STPs at 3000 or so. It also eliminates the safety mode.

But I'm not sure when the safety mode really happens. Does it happen when I floor it at 60 mph in 4th? I sure hope so, 'cause otherwise I'm not kicking the butt I had hoped this engine would kick.

Do any of us know the actual behavior of the STPs in Full Power mode? Do we know when the safety mode kicks in? Is there a white paper or tech paper on this STP stuff?

Best,

Jon

First I've read about some kind of 'safety mode'.

My good friend of almost 30 years has a 2012 Concours. He's had over 50 bikes in his life, all different kinds / styles / makes, etc. A few weekends ago we switched bikes for about 5 miles. He shot away from me ... I didn't try to keep up, was just letting him try out the ZX; I've ridden the Concours before, it's OK but just reminds me of a Cadillac. At the next stop he said, "Here, we gotta switch back. I shouldn't have ridden that. That's by far the fastest bike I've ever ridden." He said the speedo hit 176 and was still climbing. (closed circuit of course )

If your not impressed then your not riding it hard enough guys. Go out on a back road and run her to redline in every gear and tell me she isn't pulling hard. If your being a pansy and shifting at 8,500 or 9,000 then your leaving so much on the table. O and by the way here is the beast. Disregard dyno numbers and pay attention to ET. This is stock wheelbase and stock motor on pump gas.

Jesus Christ, Maverick. You must be a damned-good launcher. That's impressive.

I hear you about going to redline. My thoughts are on torque up to top end, but I hear you. I just thought the 110 ft/lbs would pull harder. But my Bird has 82 or so, and the difference may not be as butt-palpable as I expected.

It DOES pull hard all the way up.

8.9 and change?!

I know a guy in Florida that would be waiting on you at the trap... by half a second.

Maverick my input here is not about most of these bikes that run as promise from the the factory. My bike does not run hard compared to my friends bike that lives next door to me. You don't even have to get above 4,000 rpm to know his bike makes ALOT more power. I rode his bike home from the dealership with 1 mile on it, and I knew immediately that my bike didn't make that kind of torque.

If you remember I made a thread in early 2014 introducing myself and my bike, making a comment that it didnt really pull any harder than my old 2005 ZX10R. Well I still feel that way.