If you're going into safety mode, these two maps show the difference- the first is the stock full power STP opening sequence, and the second is safety mode- I hope the pics are clear enough to read- this was the best I could do with a screen shot- the board software will cut off some of the right side, but you should get the idea:

* Last updated by: gobrian77 on 6/20/2015 @ 8:11 PM *

You can put a sign up with anything you like to pay me back for my signs -- I just have to see those air filters in the raw.

Yes, this is one smart cat.

* Last updated by: Hub on 6/21/2015 @ 1:47 AM *

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Don't spew misinformation Vic. Do you really think Lee Pritchard's 14R went 8.43 @ 165 mph with a "terrible and hurtful mod"? I have made back to back passes with and without secondary flies and I can promise that the bike is quicker without. I would ask you to do your own testing, but you simply don't have the ability to push the bike hard enough to render usable results. It takes low 1.5 60' ET to really feel the effect of secondary fly interference. And for the claims of upper rpm horsepower loss due to airflow turbulence, I didn't lose a single MPH off my trap speed when testing back to back.

Let's get this straight. This is always part of the stupidity that takes place someone get's all butthurt because they don't really understand what's being stated. I'm not saying it's impossible to modify a ZX14R and improve performance. What I stated was if you remove STPs unlike Gen 1 it results in a loss of power. I know detrimental is a big word, but all it means is "causes harm".

Here's a comment from Brock's site regarding "Brock Flash 2 ECU ZX-14R (12-15)" which mean's he's also spewwing misinformation:

Overrides the ‘Safety Mode’ with the flies installed. (Eliminates small peak power loss experienced from removal of the flies.)

Note that this warning/quote is NOT LISTED FOR ANY Gen 1 flashes. So at best your quote is dependent on whether or not someone has a flash that does what Brock's does.

https://www.brocksperformance.com/Brock-Flash-2-ECU-ZX14R-1215+I923384+C297.aspx

Lots of times we hear folks talking about the amazing potential of the human mind. I think that a human mind is spurred and given voice by a human heart, and that the combo of the two is what produces those uncanny, eccentric, "way up there" phenomena that we marvel at.

Hub, you are an example of that combo of human potential.

* Last updated by: Tallsomeone on 6/21/2015 @ 7:11 AM *

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Falling Down (1993)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMaHUash9zU

* Last updated by: Racerx on 6/21/2015 @ 7:52 AM *

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Nice distinction and Thanks, Tall!

Assist:

* Last updated by: Hub on 6/21/2015 @ 8:19 AM *

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I'm going to need a few days to figure out everything you've done with your ZX.

Absolutely intriguing and dizzying. I'll bet the cat gave you a handful of those ideas!

I now think of my bikes as finely-wiped dinner china that I would never take out of the cupboard.

* Last updated by: Tallsomeone on 6/21/2015 @ 10:02 AM *

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4. Overrides the ‘Safety Mode’ with the flies installed. (Eliminates small peak power loss experienced from removal of the flies.)

Are you referring to this line about the flash? Did you watch all of the tuning videos associated with the fly removal testing? The peak power loss was a single horsepower. Now translate that into "terrible and hurtful mod" for me. I'm not seeing how that single digit of PEAK horsepower loss will have any effect on anything. Remember that the quickest (by a mile) guys on the site have our secondaries removed. I suppose if someone wanted to listen to the slower guys about "go fast" mods, then we can just label that as a bad decision.

LOVE that movie HUBster...way cool...Thanks;)

Tall ... Ya know the cheap, easy, free 'fix' to try would be to just remove your flies and take it for a ride.

If the bike won't open them up as it should, you won't have that problem ... if they're not even there.

That's a common mod that both ZX14 and Concours owners do.

Most guys report decent seat-of-the-pants improvement from removing the flies, especially on the Concours, but also the ZX14 ... you may just report the greatest flies-removal improvement ever on a ZX14!

I can find and post a link to the directions if you want them.

And the good thing: If you don't like it, you can put them back in.

No harm, no foul.

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Hub..... What is your goal with that poor 14 of yours? It looks like a you paid a pasta chef to install your wiring and a Lowe's parking lot Guatemalan to pipe your whatever it was I was looking at. Are you merely trying to understand ALL of the systems and subsystems just because? Are you trying to improve the performance of the bike?

I now think of my bikes as finely-wiped dinner china

Like you can't tell the difference between a new bike next to an 18 year old bike in showroom condition?

I'll bet the cat gave you a handful of those ideas!

Ah no, smarty knows when you are not giving her 100% full attention to her. Ivan of Ivan's Performance inspired me. I have a delicious hack that spikes no code, but brings a certain, half smooth/half frequency range change in a buzz sort of feel.

The next deal is to run the gopro and a timing light at that crank window, flip a pc map to a different AFR and see if the ignition follows? I have to revert back to 'an electrical balance' is the math and that means X is fuel and Y is the curve, where the timing light will show Z ignition move>>> I toggle to another map. What's the point? The point is to watch if the basic abstract pans out=(?)

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Mav, I guess Hub's had a few ZX-14s, so seeing what he's done here probably has to be taken in context. One aspect of context is probably that he is expressing himself and his mind with his deep engagement with the Ninja. Like I said, it makes me feel like a snobby, anal prude to go see my spotless, no-risk setup in light of his daring mods and experiments.

I'm going to wait many weeks of pondering and reviewing the clues his camera hand has given in his vids before I would presume to judge what he's shown us. It's fascinating.

And guess what? The shop chipped the side of my tank (very small part of the bottom rim) while taking it up to look down into my airbox, while if they had had a whit of sense they would have watched the actuating roller on the side like Hub said. Crazy.

I see radical disregard for convention and strong self-determination in Hub's ZX, and only hope we can get more info about it as we go. I think I see a goop-secured toggle switch for map change in one of the videos. Right, Hub?

That multi-terminal pin-receiver thing has me guessing, for sure -- and that's just one of several things that shout to me: EXPERIMENTS AND DATA-COLLECTION IN PROGRESS!

Such an incredible departure from the coddling and convention that I've gotten used to with my vehicles!

I may have to send $$ to Hub to sponsor the research he's so brilliantly pursuing.

Jon

* Last updated by: Tallsomeone on 6/21/2015 @ 10:04 AM *

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LOVE that movie HUBster...way cool...Thanks;)

Thanks, Grn. I like the way Kolfla takes time to edit his vids. I'm more a one shot no retakes it is what it is.

It looks like a you paid a Lowe's parking lot Guatemalan to pipe your whatever...

I cracked up is how I read it this way!

Are you merely trying to understand ALL of the systems and subsystems just because?

Exactly. Follow the book's abstract and it pans out hack style.

Are you trying to improve the performance of the bike?

Not really. The engineering is spot on so why mess up a beautiful thing. Am I after a smooth ride? Yes. I can tune the bike's throttle body and get away with closing down or opening up the air screws. 1/4 turn shows a big difference AFR wise, AND smooth wise.

That's why I keep walking past your pit I have my hand over my mouth so no one else gets a clue of the setup...
Did you check compression yet to see if the sync dials in?
Did you close the lows so you first sync the 2 shafts?> if there.
Did you see how; first the plates and now balance that screw(s) to said AFR turn; add the other 2 hoses and now pulse them to balance out the 3-air pulses = Smooth Leave ~ No lag of the one plate dragging the other 2 cyl's down is catch up again?

If that's improved performance, where are the air screws now? One is sucking the canister and the other is sucking out vapor into #4. So 3-4 are open, you go touch 1-2 and they are closed. Tell me you never moved the air screws, Mav? Tell me you have yet to sync the bike for drag racing? Tell me you have yet to find the health of the engine (cold), not book warm in the test.

Why cold? The day you turn the key on and it cranks with very little compression is it was not warm when it started, right? So think it's that final day it won't start is how can you get it warm to test LOL... fuck their test warmshit.

* Last updated by: Hub on 6/21/2015 @ 10:49 AM *

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The shop chipped the side of my tank (very small part of the bottom rim) while taking it up to look down into my airbox

These type of throttle bodies are somewhat generic. First year busa had the air box flaps close on vac so they sort of slowed the air speed this way. The second way is at the exhaust and that subthrottle plate is also a way to blend the abrupt throttle opening. The third is of course the tank bang and those throttle bodies having the sub-slower actuating the air speed this way too. Lots of plays on the air speed designs.

I see radical disregard for convention

Far from it. I do not alter the OE parts. You can take it all off and connect things back together as if I anally walked out to a clean machine in showroom condition... Not as showroom as yours, Tall, but strive for that determination to match the pro's.

and only hope we can get more info about it as we go. I think I see a goop-secured toggle switch for map change in one of the videos. Right, Hub?

Yes, goop-secured. As soon as I figure out something that works, here is the PAIR ready for tuning/AFR reads. Testing over is back to stock and burn off the carbon build at the exhaust ports.

[]I may have to send $$ to Hub to sponsor the research...[/q]
Thanks for the offer, Tall, but my current sponsors have me pretty much caught up. It's just little nickel and dime things happening now.

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Vic

What I stated was if you remove STPs unlike Gen 1 it results in a loss of power. I know detrimental is a big word, but all it means is "causes harm".

Mav

The peak power loss was a single horsepower. Now translate that into "terrible and hurtful mod" for me. I'm not seeing how that single digit of PEAK horsepower loss will have any effect on anything.

Gotta side with Maverick on this. I removed my flies and had noticeable gains in the mid to upper range. Nothing "terrible and hurtful" happened. What did happen was easier power wheelies in second and third gear... it just pulls stronger than it did before. If I'm missing one HP at the upper end, it's a really good trade. So Vic, in my opinion - which includes experience with the mod (which you don't have) - is that you're wrong. I have MORE power... not less.

* Last updated by: aegisranger on 6/22/2015 @ 12:27 PM *

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Oh wow, normally I have to scour the dark areas of the internet to find it, but now right here on the ZX forum there's creepy puppet porn, Silence of the Lambs style. Sweet

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HA! You mean [the "meat puppets" as Vic would say] are the messages like; 'to the vic the dicks out there,' 'oh, you cock sucker you,' you are going to lose it,' where, Herrrre's Dicky Deed; subliminally saying that "every good deed deserves" is give it to you first, before it's face planted for the courtesy is have a bloody-good-day either way.

Vic: "What I stated was "causes harm."

aegi: "it just pulls stronger than it did before.' 'So Vic, in my opinion - which includes experience with the mod (which you don't have) - is that you're wrong."

Vic??? I thought you knew this? It says; any test you bring forward and you add your abstract to it = Junk Science. "No investigation, no right to speak," said the little red book. And because you were getting on my case, I thought, oh boy here comes a gear head with some background. But once you do not see it is the speed event, the harder vacuum pull, the rich accel built-in for WOTHELL 'causes harm?'

And to prove your ass is on the air cleaner pull; guess who is monitoring the pull of the air? And when someone asked if they could run a header only w/no harm, you had to see it, meaning, no engine damage is going to occur and no damage to that bike; but the rider's ears probably.

So there you go, I choose, 'to the vics of the dicks out there' yeah, like I'm going to listen to your junk hanging out is go put some pants on, your yanking is hanging. That's why your vids are the only valid input... Now, go slam dunk the throttle low rpm and make sure the camera is running. It takes some balls to... oh never mind.

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I changed how my license plate is mounted, and I SWEAR I can feel the difference in how bright the front lights shine, and therefore, the acceleration.

Unfortunately, the acceleration factor is negative. Just a bit negative -- about one femtometer per hour per hour (hour squared) -- but seat-of-the-relativistic-pants REAL and kind of saddening. I counted on this ZX for more.

Back to my showroom Blackbird and its old carb-based fueling bummer. At least its plate space doesn't offer itself to changes in positioning, and therefore changes in beam brightness that lead to slowdowns.

On the fun side, do any of you know of a set of alternate pegs that would simply put my feet back one inch? I also don't like the rubber on the pegs, as my boots stick sometimes during shifting.

Best to all!

Jon

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"I changed how my license plate is mounted, and I SWEAR I can feel the difference in how bright the front lights shine, and therefore, the acceleration..."

More likely, it's that you changed the angle at which the photons from the license plate light impinge on the plate and reflect towards the rear and the extra forward force that is causing the stronger acceleration is due to that !

Ok, this thread proves that anyone who buys the world's fastest production motorcycle and mods it because they want more and more... is fucking nuts--and all along I thought I was the real nut--but wait there's more---I'm just a squirrel trying to get a nut or maybe I've already flown over the Cuckoo's Nest :)

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anyone who buys the world's fastest production motorcycle and mods it because they want more and more... is fucking nuts

So buy a Harley...

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"So buy a Harley..."

I know this was said in jest, but..

Buy a (big air-cooled twin) Harley and one can be sucked into the '100 * 2 club', the quest for 100 HP and 100 ft-lbs..

I have a Honda CBR250R.. I think it makes a peak 22 HP at the rear wheeel. I was amazed at the $$$ people were spending to get a 10% increase in HP, that would bring it up to a whopping 24 HP !

Wanting to make things 'better' (and the definition of what is better is up to interpretation).. is what makes America great ! :-)

aegisranger said:

So buy a Harley

My bike would walk pass yours as if yours WAS a harley

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