I know I was involved in a discussion about road debris falling into the engine via spark plug holes over a year ago. It would not be hard to do. The sparkplugs are down in a well and there is a rubber elctrode plug thingy called a stick coil on top. We all know how little pebbles collect in our fairings and on the motor.

So recently it was suggested that I blow my motor off with compressed air before working. I got a little compressor and have been doing a lot of blowing before after and while working. You cannot get every last grain outa the way. I think for stick coils, it is almost a given some chunkies are going to fall in the spark plug wells.

I tried greasing as I remove to trap any debris before it falls in. Works good--only prob--if anything DOES fall in, it will stick to the inside and be a lot less likely to fly out with a blast of compressed air.

tried NOT greasing but both times, I found some tiny chunks on the very tip of the stick coil which tells me something musta fell in.

Finally resorted to the blow and I am satisfied that cleared it completely. I looked down in there with my mirror tool and a flashlight. The image was much cleare than I could photo here (without using a tripod and some careful focussing) All I could see was a shiny inside and the tip of the spark plug. Kinda cool, huh?

I actually am sort of favoring the grease as you go method right now.
SO , what are your thoughts about stuff falling in the sparkplug wells. We all have to change plugs eventually.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/4/2011 @ 9:53 PM *

I have nothing but sand here so I just use compressed air I think I depends more on the type of debris your getting in there (pebbles, mud, sand…….)

Very large sand or tiny gravel--how ever you want to look at it. Little pockets collect in the indentations of the motor or just isolated chunks here and there. It would only take one to do some serious damage. The compressed air seems to work well to clear all of it. I would not worry too much if it were just a bit of soft pollen dust or cotton fuzz from the blanket cover.

I always encourage people to do their own wrenching but then there are these little details that seem to be quite important but may not be obvious when one is focussed on the job itself. Then again, I doubt very much many shops would worry about blowing out engine openings after they gave the whole outside a quick blast. I guess I am pretty fussy but in this case, I think it is warranted.

Rook, you hair is gonna fall out of your head worrying about all these things! lol
But yes, I hate this scenario as well. However, sometimes, when things are this way youo have to just do the best you can and hope it's enough and then fogedabowdit.
As for techniques, I have a special blow gun just for this I have hanging in the rafters. You can buy them just about anywhere they sell air accessories. It's the small gun with the two foot long tube with a bend at the end and a nozzle. Kinda looks like this,

If you can bend it a bit more with out damaging it then you can pull your coil out and snake this thing in there and with 90-125psi blast out whatever might be loose. With that nozzle and the close proximity and focused direction there will be quite a blast of air rushing straight in there. Then if that's not enough for ya grab a small wire bristle brush like this,

or this,

which you can bend the handle and get down in there and knock it around a bit freeing any stubborn stuff before blowing it out again with your gun. This all being done before the plug is removed of course. Once the plug is removed don't do anything that may knock something loose. Just reinstalling the plug will do enough of that to drive your anxiety right through the roof!

As for your grease theory, I have to disagree. Yes, it will grab the loose stuff and hold it from falling in, but eventually it will become a nasty mess. Personally I'd rather have everything absolutely dry so the debri can be knocked out and blown and it will fly out and away from the engine without sticking to everything on it's way out. IMO I'd pop them coils and brake clean the hell out of your plug tubes and mop it up with tons of rags until every last spec of crud comes out and start from scratch (no pun intended).

My self, I'm actually very pleased with how well this particular bike's tubes are protected and kept clean by those coil/grommets. Keep it all dry and blow it out well before loosening any plugs is all you should have to do.

Now that my valve cover gasket has been weeping oil ever since the valve job last winter I'm sure I will probably need to do some swabbing of my own when I take the coils out next time.

* Last updated by: Edgecrusher on 8/5/2011 @ 6:30 AM *

The grease to use is that dieletric grease for electronics. I finger smear that grease around the those rubber lines so it slides home. Really push and twist those down once you reinstall them. The grease helps. Before pulling the spark stick; Take an old toothbrush and tape it to a chopstick. Brush the debris away in this fashion as the other ideas described above.

To install the plugs, you take an old, long, straight, spark plug boot, install the new plug in the boot and now start the threads this way. If a stone caught a head thread to plug thread, that boot will spin on the plug body before you damage something like took your spark plug wrench and could override that chunk and start galling the head threads.

you hair is gonna fall out of your head worrying about all these things!

No worries, man. Not on the hair, anyway!

Thanks for all the info, Edge. That reaffirms much of what I was thinking. I saw a blow gun similar to that one at HF. I got the starter set of air compressor accouterments so it had the gun just like what you pictured. Just a couple short tips. I used the tapered ribbed one and stuck a 1/8" hose on it. You can drop it right down in if you want.

I like the brusk idea. I imagine most stuff would be loose and just rattling around in there unless there was something like a wad of grease to stick to.

As for your grease theory, I have to disagree. Yes, it will grab the loose stuff and hold it from falling in, but eventually it will become a nasty mess. Personally I'd rather have everything absolutely dry so the debri can be knocked out and blown and it will fly out and away from the engine without sticking to everything on it's way out. IMO I'd pop them coils and brake clean the hell out of your plug tubes and mop it up with tons of rags until every last spec of crud comes out and start from scratch (no pun intended).

i think we all agree (Hub, too, from our conversation a couple years ago) that grease down in the hole is a NO-no. Messy, dirt attracting and may hold a big solid chunk until the fateful moment when it might drop or get knocked in...like a black widow bite in your sleep. The grease was applied as I pulled the SC up^^^^. Any chunks around the rim (i think we see one in my pic) get stuck to this grease and then wiped away immediately or right after the SC is pulled. It seemed to trap every grain. I can see where you come from --what IF one greasy grain falls in??? then what? That might not fly out with an air blast.

The grease to use is that dieletric grease for electronics. I finger smear that grease around the those rubber lines so it slides home.

Before pulling the spark stick; Take an old toothbrush and tape it to a chopstick. Brush the debris away in this fashion as the other ideas described above.

To install the plugs, you take an old, long, straight, spark plug boot, install the new plug in the boot and now start the threads this way. If a stone caught a head thread to plug thread, that boot will spin on the plug body before you damage something like took your spark plug wrench and could override that chunk and start galling the head threads.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/5/2011 @ 11:03 AM *

Now that my valve cover gasket has been weeping oil ever since the valve job last winter I'm sure I will probably need to do some swabbing of my own when I take the coils out next time.

My head cover was never removed but the gasket is leaking and it keeps getting worse. Too messy to allow it to continue the flow is great enough that the oil film is wet rather than sitting long enough to form a semi solid layer of greasy dust.

I will be replacing the head gasket.

Stuck my finger in the spark plug holes last night and I could feel all the way to the tip of the plug. Didn't feel oily at all. I doubt that you will need to worry about the tubesgetting mucked up....but the head gasket, that prolly should be changed and i guess there are some spark plug gaskets as well. Might as well do it all at once while it is torn apart. You might consider putting a washer under each cyl head cov bolt so you can compress the gasket a bit more. Only thing there, I would worry that the cover was on perfectly square. I once heard the threads were bored no deeper than the length of the threads on the bolt--so that the cover had to be tightened down perfectly flat to the head and not be over-torqued anywhere. . IDK, the washer fix has been used by many people. Me, I would not do that until the bike was getting older. My orig gasket lasted 29,000 miles--that is enough for me.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/5/2011 @ 11:32 AM *

Come to think of it, Edge, the head cover bolts also have a gasket. Seems to me you would have to put the washer between the bolt head and the bolt head gasket. Might be wort a try but looking more like something I would just get all new stuff for.

Hope that WAS an old head cover gasket on there. I would be a little pissed if i got a new one and it leaked right away.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/5/2011 @ 1:42 PM *

Rook, once you take that cam cover off, you will see where the cover bolts screw into... Watch how the cover floats. Notice how the cover bolts have a stop-face once the threads roll up to that stopper. Notice how the bolt acts as the stopping floater bolt. Said another way, remove the gaskets out of the cam cover. Remove the rubber washers off 4 bolts. Install the bolts at their 4 corners w/cover on.

Lift the cover. Notice the gap. Install the 4 bolts back on with their rubber gaskets. Lift the cover. Those 4 bolts; hand spin down till no threads are left; that bolt is flat-stopped over that cam tower cap. Lift the cover now. You tighten that flat part over the threads anymore, where are you going? You know how easily those cam tower threads can be torn out or become bent, you try to tighten some sort of leak down? Think about it.

Squids do not see or comprehend that bold design, the stopping event, the thread sheering, and they did not see the gasket is the seal or the floating cover effect. Once that cover leaks, it leaks>> Period. The band-aid fix is to lift the stopper bolt higher so you can now crush what is destroyed initially. That means to say, you are adding thread sheer to that cam tower hole.

The fix is not a washer and now tear up a cam tower thread. The fix is to replace the gasket she is done. Do we sort of see our rubber gasket is the push up and a push down on the cover and head? Once you send that bolt to a stop; I'd hand tighten those cover bolts until I felt that thread end. Maybe a snitch more but not even send 7lbs. of torque at the max. I'd go 5lbs. or hand tight. In other words, I would rather have a leak than a torn out cam tower thread. I know that gasket has plenty of rubber cover crush, once that stopper bolt ends its travel.

Do we comprenday or compress day gasket so much? The new, tall, fresh, dry contact... DRY CONTACT... Installation is how you eliminate most oil leaks is to install rubber and paper gaskets dry. Once we install that top cover gasket we are not tearing out cam tower threads... RIGHT??? Make a note!

Naturally you would make sure the valve cover is clean around your stick coils...yes

And it's not 4...it's 8 bolts on the valve cover.Yes...VALVE COVER...not CAM cover.Sheesh!Class dismissed!

You guys crack me up. I get good info from both of you. All we need is 1bad now-- his opinion is usually the same as Hub but when different it is totally opposite -- great stuff . In the end, we find our own way on a lot of this stuff and there is no clear right or wrong. Smart and stupid but not right and wrong. it helps a great deal to get a variety of insights so I can avoid doing stupid things.

it helps a great deal to get a variety of insights so I can avoid doing stupid things.

And whats with the washer? Yes, it's a band-aid, but to us soul surfers, that gasket goes on like perfect or sloppy; one or the other. Sloppy says I leak. Perfect says it was made for it. Mine has not leaked yet and I used the old top screw cam cover/engine cover/top lid/call me a squid... They all went back together dry as a bone and did I need a washer? No I didn't. Do I need to be somewhat, insightful, call it? Have a little insight while blue and I have a little experience with the product. Maybe Rook, blue, has limited experience and a little insight as you mentioned guides the guy down the road without a stunk'inn washer!

Ski Wid!

* Last updated by: Hub on 8/5/2011 @ 11:03 PM *

Sure I used the Kaw plug wrench to pull a plug. There is no other wrench that will get down in there because no other wrench can fold as you say. I don't recall having any trouble getting the plug back in (or pulling it up, for that matter). It must have a rubber gripper in it. The old spark plug lead is not just to hold the plug but to allow you to feel what is hapenning with the plug going in cross threaded or what have you. It's just a more sensitive tool. The ladies like that too.

Still don't know what Hub's using....some sort of 'long socket' deal?IDK.

And because the rubber is still holding the plug body in the 3/8th socket, I spin the adapters, raise the plug, pull an adapter, raise the plug more if one more adapter will not swing up and out. Get the idea?

That is quite intelligent(and what else would we expect) but why not just use the OEM wrench after you get it stared with the old boot and wire trick? Have this need to put your ingenuity to the test, do ya??

blue, guess where my tool kit is? I would have to remove the tank. It's in that cave where the battery is. Yeah, I carry a 10mm wrench under the seat so if and when I'm on the road. But at home, I've got the killer box. Everythink I can think of to kill a bike on the side of the road it's splattered. That kind of kill box... Tiny, like a box in a box. Have any spark plug going to give me any shit is no way hose say is in that box too. What do I look like?

Pg. 17-22. See top left illustration. To the left of the battery = Tool tray my Spanners. Yes, pull battery or lift tank with two bolts and reach around; you pick.

You getcha a Shorai and you will room for tools up the wazoo.

* Last updated by: Rook on 8/8/2011 @ 4:03 PM *

How is that Shorai holding up Rook?Any problems?

Reading this is getting me depressed for when I need to replace the valve cover gasket. Mine is still the original.
Seems like lack of space makes general maintenance difficult on this bike but you also can't trust the factory method of replacing a simple gasket because it'll leak? You need washers to stop a cover from leaking but then you can't properly torque it down?
As far as I know mine is dry. If it's common to have new gaskets leaking, do you think the factory uses some step to insure a leak free install or do you think many here are not being careful enough and put the gasket on incorrectly?
Keep in mind I haven't worked on mine yet. Something "different" about this gasket? I'm just surprised what a pain it sounds like.

* Last updated by: KAK on 8/15/2011 @ 12:08 AM *

KAK,

Reading this says you better have the stomach for it or it goes bad every move you make out the gate. I've got big hands and I keep popping out that throttle body under 20 minutes and I'm slow, weak and struggling at those v-stacks. I was the last person installing them I could yell at that prick, but it was as sealed ass shit is no, I won't kiss any prick but pat myself on the back is what the customer wanted.

An airplane mechanic came to the shop with that old points bike, not to long ago it seems. He mentions how he is frightened at the technology sort of look at him and I would be lost around a plane for about 10 ears worth and then some, working and listening up.

You don't set points. You don't hand adjust valve lashes. You don't struggle with gas lines. You don't struggle with paper gaskets that took more time to razor them off than rebuilding the whole engine if every part was new kind of 3-2-1-GO! This is now a refrigerator kind of drain the oil, lube the chain, change both filters, zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.

Oh, a KAKasket attempt? No. First you, 'Get a pedal 101" kind of, you got that squared awayet? Ask yourself if you are ready for the big step:

1. I have the meguybeer to take a sip of whatever drink, and think up, 'how you can roll that rubber up,' or over some t-body.
2. I think if the FSM says to remove the throttle body just to get at the cam cover leak, I have to click my heels together and say, I won't get depressed, I won't get depressed, I'm going to find out I made a.... over a.... hill of beans about it.

KAK, we both had/have leak free top ends. I believe the parts in question do work without a washer. It is; your call of the ball about reading that sm. With so many parts on the same page with a circle around it and it says, R for replace; nothing is said about changing those gaskets. Are they reusable? As long as they don't leak, I would assume yes. Book says to reuse them. Stab a little sealer here and off you go. Then the 50/50 says, should I/shouldn't I replace that gasket(s), knowing that compression, heat cycle, age, loss of memory, and all the other add ups. I question; will it leak when used again? I can't say for sure. For sure no, not with new gaskets. You can bet on that is bet me. I took that 50% odds my way, just so I do not pull that blanket twice... Or meguybeer it twice. Take your pick.

Hub, I'm ready but don't need to do this job until valve clearance check time. Then I'll have a fresh set of questions I'm sure. Not near as simple as the old Suzuki GS though.
You keep needling me about the clutch lever play thing. Did what I could so far about that. Bled it several different ways. Even took off the M/C and rotated so any air should pop right out the bleeder while bleeding. Gave up. The changing lever slack was there in the beginning. Tried new springs, fliud, oil...guess I'll have to take things apart and inspect every part. What bugs me is the clutch hasn't been abused and had about 5K on it when I first noticed it. So even if I find the faulty part what's to stop it from doing it again? Hopefully it will just be a bad part. If my problem is similar to how slipping effects the parts, then the factory manual says under "clutch troubleshooting" to look at the clutch hub and housing, along with the fibers and steels, and possibly the slave cylinder. Only thing I see in the slave is the push rod. Maybe it has a groove worn it or is sticking momentarily? Hope it isn't the $400 housing. Something related to harder acceleration is causing the problem but I don't know enough about each of the clutch parts to figure it out.
As for the cover gasket, I always use a new one. I suppose when I have the job in front of me I'll do what makes sense. Seems to me if the factory can install the gasket without any leaks, then so can I.

* Last updated by: KAK on 8/17/2011 @ 2:24 PM *

KAK, For what it's worth; go to the back of the bike, look at how high the hose is before it goes down to the rear brake caliper. We could have an air bubble keep tumbling up that high and remain there. That is sort of how that soft pedal is happening. The physics and all that push of volume just keeps a few bubbles rolling in suspension.

One common sense trick is to move the hoop out of the loop as it were, bring the caliper up in the air, get that bubble to float to the top of the caliper. You already have that banjo loose so as to break the bolt loose, the caliper's banjo is @ 12 0'clock high... Move the slave's banjo at 12 o'clock, same principal, meaning, if you have an air problem?; Banjo fitting aimed for the sky or be left high and dry sort of speak is your present position.

* Last updated by: Hub on 8/17/2011 @ 4:15 PM *

blue, you heli-coil you! Where is the leak, from the bolt or down the cover somewhere? Did you raise the threads with a washer? I'll help answer. Yes. Did you torque a thread that was designed to stop and the rubber acts the crush as in your oil cap seals well, does it not? I showed how you snap that o-ring tight. If you took took any more pressure and sent that cap home like more metal to metal contact? Could you get it off easier with a snap of the fingers or lay some thumb at it. Go try that.

This is the same o-ring effect on the crush at the head. You added more crush means the gasket is not sealing, the one cam cap is too high at that thread hole and the boss needs lowering at that cap then. The hole heli-coil point is that thread stress where as no one has yet to find the problem why it needs a washer, not found covered under warranty kind of leaked or seeped the first day. Yes or no?

You come along, pull the threads out with a washer hitting the top of the frame kind of step back from the bike you heli-coil about to happen kind of repair my ride. I'm going to get Kruz to fix that thing for ya. IDK

* Last updated by: Hub on 8/17/2011 @ 5:25 PM *

And then it hit me....'what the hell am I doing?'...and just like that....it was finished .Ride safe all.Keep rockin yer spaceships everyone!

Rook.. you kill me with this.

I've never blown out the holes for the spark plugs. Sand, small small debris.. it's just going to get pushed straight out the exhaust valve, no damage done.

Lol